Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[DaveBarbier]

Interesting, never heard of them. My 550 harness is completely gone and replaced by one I made with the m-Unit. So I'm going to be adapting some ignition to my harness. I don't think it will be too hard. Famous last words.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I have a 650 harness with new CDI boxes but I'd like to use my spare M-Unit on this build. I will be following yours with great interest.

[calj737]

You can use the m-unit with a CDI, it's not an issue at all. If you happen to use the m-button, then you can encounter some issues due to interference (which is why I stray from them).

[DaveBarbier]

You can use the m-unit with a CDI, it's not an issue at all. If you happen to use the m-button, then you can encounter some issues due to interference (which is why I stray from them).

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't possible to use the m-Unit with a CDI. I'll have to do a bit of research on which one I should use.

[calj737]

For clarification: the m-unit only provides switched power to devices. So the AUX port doesn't care whether its CDI, points, transistorized or electronic. The ignition plate and "coils" need to match, not the power source.

[DaveBarbier]

Right, that's what I was thinking. Thanks

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Go, Dave, go!  I am copying you!

[DaveBarbier]

Got my Hindle exhaust in yesterday. Really really nice. I do see that the welds are poking through to the inside of the pipes quite a bit but I guess that doesn't matter. It's also crazy light!

The muffler is pretty open too, haha. Just some outside baffling...it's going to be loud! I got the 12" reverse megaphone.

I'm really excited, hope to talk with MRieck tonight about machine work. Want to send this motor out ASAP.

[calj737]

Got my Hindle exhaust I yesterday. Really really nice. I do see that the welds are poking through to the inside of the pipes quite a bit but I guess that doesn't matter.

An indication that it was not TIG welded with an Argon purge, but instead seam welded only.

[Tews19]

What does that mean Cal in regard to strength, durability and quality with that type of weld in comparison to Tig? Hindle the only company right now that makes nice looking 650 exhaust....

[DaveBarbier]

Got my Hindle exhaust I yesterday. Really really nice. I do see that the welds are poking through to the inside of the pipes quite a bit but I guess that doesn't matter.

An indication that it was not TIG welded with an Argon purge, but instead seam welded only.

Interesting...an issue?

[Tews19]

I have no clue, but Cal is the man who will know. Now that you brought this up I wonder what kind of weld my motogpwerks has.

[calj737]

What does that mean Cal in regard to strength, durability and quality with that type of weld in comparison to Tig?

The process was probably TIG. It was just whether or not they sealed the pipe up, then filled the interior with Argon, and welded it. This purges all the oxygen from inside the tube and prevents these "icicles" from forming. Its not a strength issue really as these pipes are very thin walled anyway, and not structural.

It just speaks to the difference between a time-consuming, professional weld or a welder doing a good job and not understanding the difference. It may have been MIG welded, and the guy may have run a continuous straight bead. That is not "the best way" to do tubing.

If it was TIG welded, then TIG is best performed "uphill", so a round tube gets tricky. You start at say, 8:00, weld to 12:00. Stop, rotate the pipe/tube, then begin again at the new 8:00. At a minimum, you'll have 3 sections if you're really good.  Me, I'd have about 8 as I can only do about 8:00 to 10:15. It requires a very skilled TIG guy to push the puddle from 10-1:00 even. Can be done, but not by this hack.

Is it an issue? Nope. Its nit-picky only, and doesn't really effect the performance of their product or the incredible value of what they do/offer. A true race only system would only be done with Argon filled tubing and would not have an internal obstructions to the air flow. A street bike? You'll never notice.

[DaveBarbier]

Makes sense to me. I didn't think it was an issue but thought I'd ask. I'll post pictures later so anyone who is considering these pipes can see. For transparency sake. But they are really nice, SOOO worth the price. Hell, I'd even pay more. Great company to deal with, too.

[calj737]

Makes sense to me. I didn't think it was an issue but thought I'd ask. I'll post pictures later so anyone who is considering these pipes can see. For transparency sake. But they are really nice, SOOO worth the price. Hell, I'd even pay more. Great company to deal with, too.

I wouldn't even give it a second thought. And yep, they have a very good reputation by all accounts.

[RAFster122s]

Dave, you WILL pay more when the Canadian dollar gets its footing against the USD again.
Just a factor of their economy right now making it a buy if you need and have the coin to take advantage of that fact.
 But, there is a small chance it could grow weaker and cost less. If so, often prices rise as raw materials cost generate that upwards pricing pressure. For in-country sales it can have backlash and sometimes even causing business failure. Don't worry about that for a large long time business like this as long as product demand remains.

[DaveBarbier]

Dave, you WILL pay more when the Canadian dollar gets its footing against the USD again.
Just a factor of their economy right now making it a buy if you need and have the coin to take advantage of that fact.
 But, there is a small chance it could grow weaker and cost less. If so, often prices rise as raw materials cost generate that upwards pricing pressure. For in-country sales it can have backlash and sometimes even causing business failure. Don't worry about that for a large long time business like this as long as product demand remains.

Thanks. I'll keep all of that in mind next time I do business with America's hat.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

So now we have pretty jewelry that we cannot put on just yet.  Are you going to polish your 650 pipes like Jim.  I must admit they look mighty pretty shined up. 

I am undecided on polishing the outsides, but I will likely ceramic coat the inside of the pipe.

[DaveBarbier]

I don't think I've seen Jim's pipes, but no, I'm going to keep them the way they are. I was also thinking of coating the insides, but not sure now. Might skip that unless I can find a place that'll do it relatively cheap. I know a kid that powder coats and ceramic coats, he said he could give it a try but I don't think I want to trust him with these things.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Get a load of these (Jim's):

[calj737]

Ship the header to me, Dave. I'll have my guy shoot them (he's a pro and it won't be a "try"). Runs $150 for the header, $225 for the whole system. Remove the baffle prior to shipping.

[DaveBarbier]

Get a load of these (Jim's):

Those are nice, but not for me. I'm not into the "super clean, beautifully polished". I'm more into the semi-antique looking finish. Kinda like my face...looks a little like a pile of old rocks. 

Ship the header to me, Dave. I'll have my guy shoot them (he's a pro and it won't be a "try"). Runs $150 for the header, $225 for the whole system. Remove the baffle prior to shipping.

I'll think about it, but I don't really see the benefit for the price spent. I know it'll help scavenge heat away making theoretical power (and I assume it'll help keep the yellowing/bluing of the stainless at bay), but I'd rather spend that money with MRieck

[MickB]

Dave where's the photo of your new exhaust?

[DaveBarbier]

Dave where's the photo of your new exhaust?

I'll snap a couple this weekend. I haven't had time.

[RAFster122s]

Well, the way to be scientific about it is to buy two and ceramic coat one and not the second. Take them to the dyno and tun it up on one to get dialed in. Swap to other set and do your pulls then reinstall the set you dialed in and run another pull. Use fresh plugs for both all-the-marbles runs and use your std pump full.
Run the bike on a fresh  oil change with appropriate amounts of ZZDP added or already included.

Alternatively, borrowing a friend's set of pipes for the testing can tell you your answer to, does it really make it worth the money.  Then compare results to see if performance and guesstimate life added by coating will yield  benefit to you?
Will, a coating make a pipe less prone to stress fractures? Yes/no
  What are the up sides and perceived downsides.
create a list with two columns...
list each and drop them in a rank order side by side table on what's important to you.
Come up with a weighting number system for the values that are measurable and you can actually calculate a number of the pro or con...
This is an engineering method I can send you more info on and talk you through.
It is a method used by government contractors being compliant with a Capability Maturity Model Intergrated independent assessment certification to allow large high $$ government contracts in various DOD and Security organization contracts that exceed a specified contract dollar valve. To be able to be selected by the government for bidding on the contract you must be using method/processes/practices and the organization has to be assessed at that level or within the stipulation of the Request for Proposal terms and conditions in order to be considered.  Then when applicablecqualifying candidates are selected they have to provide evidence throughout the software/hardware/network/support organization that is being created or modified those methodswre used and eexternal independent assessment companies certified to do so reassess the gov subcontractor is maintaining their assessment of being compliant with the appropriate CMMI model. It helps create better quality products and can help control some of the contract price creep to prevent massive overruns on contracts that are very large.  When done well it is a smart way to do business,  but...hust because youyou have a process that you consistently follow doesn't automatically correlate to a good or efficient process.