Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[DaveBarbier]

Oh, so this isn't to measure valve to piston clearance. This is just measuring overall squish in the combustion chamber? What's the goal or minimum numbers?

[DaveBarbier]

Ah I see. Never mind. I'll do this today. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=121250.0

[MRieck]

Webcam is known to not have super accurate figures, you are very close and I wouldn't worry at all with those figures. Sometimes you get lucky and you can get it evenly split so both are equal (provided they should be of course...)
I rarely have heard of anyone getting Webcam's numbers spot on. You have a very small number between them... 0.125 = 1/8 inch...
So, mapping the curve of opening and closing and duration of each would show you their overlaps... Color the curves from the base circle outward to map the rise beyond that circle...expanding the graph scale so it is larger than it actually is above the circle.  Just doing one cylinder is all it takes...to show overlap. If you wanted to go crazy you could do them all and map it and digitally overlay them if they were transparent.  In effect you would have a view of the lobes rise and fall as if looking at the end of the cam but, without the effect of distance messing with your perception of size, allowing you to compare them within the 360 view of the cam from the end...
It won't really tell you anything that plotting the numbers on a graph wouldn't...just doing it visually.

I am by no means a smart one...

This 550 cam photo attached is one of ebay's finest for sale...I think it looks a little roached.
I think I have one that's likely to look similar with the uneven wear, not the blueing from overheating. Have some play in the top cover.

You can say that again.

[DaveBarbier]

I always thought Dave was running a mega cycle cam not a web cam ?

Me too, haha! But yes, I'm running a Megacycle.

[DaveBarbier]

Measuring playdoh isn't easy, haha. I definitely wouldn't want to have relied on that for the valve clearances. Maybe I don't have the finesse.

The smallest squish I got seemed to be .049". That was on the rear (intake side) of the piston. The left edge was about .054". Should I have gotten closer to .043"?

[DaveBarbier]

Installed the regular springs in the head and torqued it down. In a day or two I'll retorque. Depends when I can get to it. Out degreeing, hopefully for the final time!

The engine seems to be tougher than usual to turn over. I feel random points of tension/relaxation during a rotation a lot more than with my 550. I assume this is normal and just due to the heavier (I think that's what Mike put in) springs and lumpier lump stick. My alternator bolt keeps coming undone as I spin, haha. Used a strap wrench on the rotor and that seems like it's holding better.

[DaveBarbier]

Cylinder walls are oiled well and plugs are out. I just think I wasn't used to the force. A little hasty for me to post the question, haha. The more I spin the motor the more I feel it's fine and I'm crazy.

[DaveBarbier]

But here's a real question: I assume I'm going to use the factory torque spec of 10ft/lbs for the cam gear bolts, but what is the chance of the gear slipping on the cam when it's running? Is there any thing I need to do to prevent slipping like dry the flange of the bolts or anything? I ask only because when I started to degree this morning I had to tighten the bolts down pretty good to prevent the gear slipping as I rotated the motor.

I accept the possibility of me being paranoid again, haha.

[flatlander]

i just cleaned the bolts with acetone and used loctite on the threads before final installation. didn't have any slipping.
i guess if there's so much resistance that the cam gear would slip, then something else is stuck and you have other problems?

[DaveBarbier]

i just cleaned the bolts with acetone and used loctite on the threads before final installation. didn't have any slipping.
i guess if there's so much resistance that the cam gear would slip, then something else is stuck and you have other problems?

Yeah true, I'll do the same.

[RAFster122s]

Is that a blue or red loctite?  I never can remember which to use and have to look it up. 
No mneumonic like BBROYGBVGW

[DaveBarbier]

Better be red or you'll go brave Vancouver's gray winter?

I used blue. I'm sure red is too strong for a small 8mm bolt.

[flatlander]

blue, like your eyes honey 

[DaveBarbier]

Damn, craftsman torque wrenches are cheap now. Not sure if it's just a president's day sale but I got two 3/8" wrenches for $100. One 10-75ft/lbs and one 25-250in/lbs.

I've been using some no name one my friend gave me this whole time. To retorque the head I decided to get something somewhat decent. Wish I could spend the close to $400 on a Snap on...maybe next year.

[DaveBarbier]

Ugh, cracked the rocker cover torquing down the rocker shaft pins to 9.5 ft/lbs (10 is the max spec). I don't like torquing such small screws. I've never done it and the first time I do I get this. Dang. Oh well, the covers are cheap on eBay.

On a side note, the new Craftsman torque wrenches don't feel like great products. Plastic and looseness; not a tight solid wrench. They could be super accurate, but they don't feel it. Think I'll save up for something in the $250 range. Any recommendations? Also, where do you guys calibrate them? Do you?

[BLAC]

Check out CDI torque wrenches, they are Snap-on's "industrial name brand".  They have "dial type" and "click type"

I bought a fairly inexpensive Tekton 10-80 for ~$45.  It got good reviews and feels nice but I'll upgrade eventually.

bum luck on the cover cracking 

[DaveBarbier]

Thanks Blac, checking out CDI and now Precision Instruments. Hope Sears will take these back.

[DaveBarbier]

Lesson learned.

I'm not sure of their return policy, but as long as Sears takes these back I'm probably going to be getting the CDI 752MFRMH click type. 5-75 ft/lbs seems like a good range for these bikes. And honestly, I don't see a reason to get a small in/lbs for the small 6mm cover screws. I'm too scared to strip them. I like just choking up on my 1/4" ratchet.

Thanks Blac for the recommendation, the CDIs are inexpensive and are nice tools.

[DaveBarbier]

I've never seen or heard of Cornwell, they are expensive as well, haha. I literally can't (don't want to) afford a Snap On wrench. From a truck I doubt they'll be discounted enough to be in my price range. I'll look into it, but CDI/Snap On Industrial Brand gets very good ratings.

[DaveBarbier]

Pulled the trigger on a CDI 5-75ft/lb. Found it on ToolsDelivered.com for $106 with $13 shipping.

Also returned the Craftsman wrenches with no issue.

[BLAC]

Very cool. Good product, good price.

[RAFster122s]

The reason the Craftsman Torque Wrenches are cheap is they are most likely made in China to a price point, rather than to a quality level. You build to a required quality level and the price is not as cheap, in fact it can be as expensive or more expensive than a supplier in the US.  The Chinese want to built 100k pieces of an item, not 10k or less.

The return rate is high on the Harbor Freight torque wrenches. Just because a torque wrench has came from a big name doesn't mean it will pass. If it has been dropped then it may be highly inaccurate and many big name torque wrenches will fail a calibration test. The US Navy requires all torque wrenches be calibrated before they are put into use.
It may be OK at low torque levels and then when you try the first high torque setting for that wrench it will break and not give you the "click" sound telling you that you have reached torque values.  The Harbor Freight torque wrenches likely suffer from poor quality control. It is very unlikely they test every wrench coming off the line.
It is likely that they have wide variation in the accuracy. Do you like drilling out screws? If no, then sometimes saving for the better quality wrench is definitely the way to go. The risk for damage is high.

[DaveBarbier]

Thanks David, that all makes sense. When ever there's a thread about which torque wrench to buy there's always a couple people that say the HF ones are good or good enough. I wouldn't take that risk. The CDI comes with a certificate of calibration and apparently, in doing more research, has all Snap on parts except the ratchet. It'll feel good when it comes in the mail, but right now I have nothing left to torque on the bike, haha. Ok, maybe engine mounts whenever I get this motor in.

[DaveBarbier]

Sometimes, Dave, you can rebuild the ratchet components and use finer teeth from a more expensive ratchet to "upgrade" yours. The pawl gear and ratchet gear need to be matched. If you look at the specs on an expensive SnapOn ratchet, you'll see how many teeth their high end wrenches have. As long as the gears fit, they'll swap. You can buy these "rebuild" kits if you know the wrench part numbers.

That's a little insider trick for you, because I love you, Man! 

Haha, thanks and its not even Valentine's Day!

[MRieck]

To be honest I don't use a torque wrench on 6mm bolts especially if they are going into aluminum. I use either a t handle or 1/4" drive ratchet. Some of the torque figures are to high especially for used bolt holes. Cylinder stud nuts rod bolts etc you need a torque wrench. On rod bolts I use a stretch gauge too.
I have been doing it a while so I have a pretty good feel.....be careful with that stuff.