Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[DaveBarbier]

In talking with Paul with C5 Performance, he advises against having a relay to power the coils and that they can cause issues and damage the coils. He wants the coils wired directly to the battery with a 10amp fuse. I'll try that and report back.

[slikwilli420]

In talking with Paul with C5 Performance, he advises against having a relay to power the coils and that they can cause issues and damage the coils. He wants the coils wired directly to the battery with a 10amp fuse. I'll try that and report back.

So then how are you supposed to turn power of the to coils? They should not be energized when the bike is not running. Also, how does a relay cause any issues? All a relay does is switch high amp currents using low amp currents. The coils has no way to know the difference.

[philgresty]

In talking with Paul with C5 Performance, he advises against having a relay to power the coils and that they can cause issues and damage the coils. He wants the coils wired directly to the battery with a 10amp fuse. I'll try that and report back.

So then how are you supposed to turn power of the to coils? They should not be energized when the bike is not running. Also, how does a relay cause any issues? All a relay does is switch high amp currents using low amp currents. The coils has no way to know the difference.

This is how i have my coils wired up, directly from the aux on the m unit. Leaving the ignition on when the bike isnt running could cause a problem but iv not done it in the year and a half iv had the m unit on.

[DaveBarbier]

In talking with Paul with C5 Performance, he advises against having a relay to power the coils and that they can cause issues and damage the coils. He wants the coils wired directly to the battery with a 10amp fuse. I'll try that and report back.

So then how are you supposed to turn power of the to coils? They should not be energized when the bike is not running. Also, how does a relay cause any issues? All a relay does is switch high amp currents using low amp currents. The coils has no way to know the difference.

According to Paul these coils are fine with constant power because they're not triggered unless the encoder disc is spinning.

"I do not recommend relays because they vibrate causing overheat issues in electronic parts that are inside the coils. Wire them up per our instructions, coils directly to the battery."

[DaveBarbier]

In talking with Paul with C5 Performance, he advises against having a relay to power the coils and that they can cause issues and damage the coils. He wants the coils wired directly to the battery with a 10amp fuse. I'll try that and report back.

So then how are you supposed to turn power of the to coils? They should not be energized when the bike is not running. Also, how does a relay cause any issues? All a relay does is switch high amp currents using low amp currents. The coils has no way to know the difference.

This is how i have my coils wired up, directly from the aux on the m unit. Leaving the ignition on when the bike isnt running could cause a problem but iv not done it in the year and a half iv had the m unit on.

The C5 doesn't want switched power according to Paul. So not from the Aux on the m.unit.

[philgresty]

In talking with Paul with C5 Performance, he advises against having a relay to power the coils and that they can cause issues and damage the coils. He wants the coils wired directly to the battery with a 10amp fuse. I'll try that and report back.

So then how are you supposed to turn power of the to coils? They should not be energized when the bike is not running. Also, how does a relay cause any issues? All a relay does is switch high amp currents using low amp currents. The coils has no way to know the difference.

This is how i have my coils wired up, directly from the aux on the m unit. Leaving the ignition on when the bike isnt running could cause a problem but iv not done it in the year and a half iv had the m unit on.

The C5 doesn't want switched power according to Paul. So not from the Aux on the m.unit.

If the coils are connected straight to the battery, they will be toast in no time, they heat up if connected to power but not running

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[DaveBarbier]

In talking with Paul with C5 Performance, he advises against having a relay to power the coils and that they can cause issues and damage the coils. He wants the coils wired directly to the battery with a 10amp fuse. I'll try that and report back.

So then how are you supposed to turn power of the to coils? They should not be energized when the bike is not running. Also, how does a relay cause any issues? All a relay does is switch high amp currents using low amp currents. The coils has no way to know the difference.

This is how i have my coils wired up, directly from the aux on the m unit. Leaving the ignition on when the bike isnt running could cause a problem but iv not done it in the year and a half iv had the m unit on.

The C5 doesn't want switched power according to Paul. So not from the Aux on the m.unit.

If the coils are connected straight to the battery, they will be toast in no time, they heat up if connected to power but not running

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That's what I thought and why I added a relay. But it turns out not. I'm sure Paul at C5 knows his own product. I am weary of it though...

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Paul's website gets into all kinds of detail about it, but it appears that the coils only charge and discharge in a very short duration (shorter than other electronic/magnetic ignition systems).  Hence, they can use hotter (3 ohm) coils without risk of overheating the coils or overtaxing the charging system.  Not my words so take it up with Paul if you disagree.

http://www.c5ignitions.com/c5-technology.html

Something tells me that Cal knows this stuff better than most.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

If the coils are connected straight to the battery, they will be toast in no time, they heat up if connected to power but not running

The C5 ignition uses their own coils, and they are different from the stock Honda units.

In all iterations of the C5 ignitions, Paul has always advised against using switched power and relays to energize the coils. I haven't tried them with the M Unit to know whether or not AUX will effect them adversely, but, if they declare to wire them directly, then directly I would do.

Cal,
Is the AUX a non-switched circuit (constant on) on the m-unit or do you have to wire "direct" (outside of the m-unit) for that?

[DaveBarbier]

If the coils are connected straight to the battery, they will be toast in no time, they heat up if connected to power but not running

The C5 ignition uses their own coils, and they are different from the stock Honda units.

In all iterations of the C5 ignitions, Paul has always advised against using switched power and relays to energize the coils. I haven't tried them with the M Unit to know whether or not AUX will effect them adversely, but, if they declare to wire them directly, then directly I would do.

Thanks for the confirmation Cal.

[Camrector]

Hijacking.
Would running the coils like this, have any effect using the mlock?

[DaveBarbier]

Hijacking.
Would running the coils like this, have any effect using the mlock?

Shouldn't, I don't see why it would. I use an m.lock and it was fine with a relay. If there are issues wiring the coils directly to the battery I'll let you know.

[DaveBarbier]

I ordered 100 mains and it was still lean feeling. Next step up I had was 112. Threw those in and it feels better. I'm honestly considering another dyno tune, haha. Plus, with more air and fuel I bet I'm making more than 70hp now. I didn't think the air filters being heavily oiled would affect it this much. I'm kicking myself for not asking about oiling the filters before. I believe the pod filters from K&N come preoiled, but on the box and on the inside packaging it has a warning to oil before use.

I'll get some plugs and do some plug chops but I still may do another dyno run because I'm curious of power.

What length of time is required for a WOT plug chop? 5 minutes holding it wide open? It's scary when I'm reaching 100mph even with the brakes on pretty hard. Don't want to lose all brakes from fade. Should I wear a parachute or carry a fat friend on my shoulders?


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[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I suspect you can probably make a bit more power as well.

[seanbarney41]

Just run it through all 5, short shifting to keep the speed down.  Maybe a drag strip test and tune is possible?

[DaveBarbier]

Just run it through all 5, short shifting to keep the speed down.  Maybe a drag strip test and tune is possible?

I don't know much about what's around my area of CT as far as drag strips. I'll take a look. But if I'm going to pay for time at the strip I might just find a local dyno tuner in stead.

I can do like 2 minutes probably but not sure if that's enough time. Don't want to get a false reading. I'll go back out and see what happens. Got to get more plugs first.

[Camrector]

Re dyno!

[flatlander]

those WOT plug chops... maybe people in the middle of the desert can do them but i've never found a stretch of road that's straight enough, long enough, empty enough and enough cop free.
that's what dyno's are for. if you consider the time and tinkering it saves you, it's easily worth the money. a good dyno guy can do one run, tell you what you need to change, re-run to confirm and done.

[joeyvans]

those WOT plug chops... maybe people in the middle of the desert can do them but i've never found a stretch of road that's straight enough, long enough, empty enough and enough cop free.

You just described North Dakota roads. We've got many stretches of road that I could perform a 10+ mile WOT chop on and never meet another car. But... the problem is... it's North Dakota.



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[DaveBarbier]

those WOT plug chops... maybe people in the middle of the desert can do them but i've never found a stretch of road that's straight enough, long enough, empty enough and enough cop free.
that's what dyno's are for. if you consider the time and tinkering it saves you, it's easily worth the money. a good dyno guy can do one run, tell you what you need to change, re-run to confirm and done.

Ok good, glad I'm not the only one. And yeah, I wouldn't think the Netherlands would be a good place for that, haha. Most roads are windy and hilly where I am.

And yeah, I'd love to go back up to Rick in MA but I don't have any time In the foreseeable future I can take off to do that. 2.5 hour drive, so it's a full day for me but he knows his stuff, and his dog is awesome

There is a place that does dyno runs not far from me, I think 3 pulls for $65. I'll get a full dyno sheet I can use to tune myself. They don't say anything on their website regarding carburetor tuning, just FI bikes. I'll call and ask though.

[DaveBarbier]

those WOT plug chops... maybe people in the middle of the desert can do them but i've never found a stretch of road that's straight enough, long enough, empty enough and enough cop free.

You just described North Dakota roads. We've got many stretches of road that I could perform a 10+ mile WOT chop on and never meet another car. But... the problem is... it's North Dakota.



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Beautiful state though, I've been there a few times. Nothing like CT, haha

[MRieck]

those WOT plug chops... maybe people in the middle of the desert can do them but i've never found a stretch of road that's straight enough, long enough, empty enough and enough cop free.
that's what dyno's are for. if you consider the time and tinkering it saves you, it's easily worth the money. a good dyno guy can do one run, tell you what you need to change, re-run to confirm and done.

Ok good, glad I'm not the only one. And yeah, I wouldn't think the Netherlands would be a good place for that, haha. Most roads are windy and hilly where I am.

And yeah, I'd love to go back up to Rick in MA but I don't have any time In the foreseeable future I can take off to do that. 2.5 hour drive, so it's a full day for me but he knows his stuff, and his dog is awesome

There is a place that does dyno runs not far from me, I think 3 pulls for $65. I'll get a full dyno sheet I can use to tune myself. They don't say anything on their website regarding carburetor tuning, just FI bikes. I'll call and ask though.

Do the pulls and adjust....I've done it many times especially when the Dynojet units came out.

[flatlander]

You just described North Dakota roads. We've got many stretches of road that I could perform a 10+ mile WOT chop on and never meet another car. But... the problem is... it's North Dakota.

hey you should market it as "the plug chop state". then open a b&b cum bar (b&b&b) for bikers (b&b&b&b) 

[DaveBarbier]

You just described North Dakota roads. We've got many stretches of road that I could perform a 10+ mile WOT chop on and never meet another car. But... the problem is... it's North Dakota.

hey you should market it as "the plug chop state". then open a b&b cum bar (b&b&b) for bikers (b&b&b&b) 

Not judging what you're into but I no longer want to go to North Dakota. :|

[DaveBarbier]

those WOT plug chops... maybe people in the middle of the desert can do them but i've never found a stretch of road that's straight enough, long enough, empty enough and enough cop free.
that's what dyno's are for. if you consider the time and tinkering it saves you, it's easily worth the money. a good dyno guy can do one run, tell you what you need to change, re-run to confirm and done.

Ok good, glad I'm not the only one. And yeah, I wouldn't think the Netherlands would be a good place for that, haha. Most roads are windy and hilly where I am.

And yeah, I'd love to go back up to Rick in MA but I don't have any time In the foreseeable future I can take off to do that. 2.5 hour drive, so it's a full day for me but he knows his stuff, and his dog is awesome

There is a place that does dyno runs not far from me, I think 3 pulls for $65. I'll get a full dyno sheet I can use to tune myself. They don't say anything on their website regarding carburetor tuning, just FI bikes. I'll call and ask though.

Do the pulls and adjust....I've done it many times especially when the Dynojet units came out.

Just called the place and it seems like a good idea. They can throw the bike on the dyno and go up to peak HP and print me out a sheet. He'll let me swap jets as long as it's fairly quick (mains are easy but for pilots the carbs have to come off the bike) and then we'll re run it.

Only thing is I wouldn't really know what to adjust when looking at the a/f map. Maybe I can do the pulls and order the needed jets after asking help from the forum?

I think I'll do a pilot jet plug chop first at like 1/8 throttle and see if I can get that closer and just do the dyno to verify and help with the mains.