Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[DaveBarbier]

About to split the cases. The manual says 12 6mm bolts but there actually 13, right? The secret one under the oil pan?

And it doesn't say anything about the top 4 bolts. Is the Honda manual better than the Clymer?


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

I took three measurements on each friction disc. Yeah I know what you mean. It's the smart thing to do. I'll have to price it out. The plates seem fine and within spec, but we'll see how much those are. Also springs are far from being out of spec. But again, if they're cheap enough then it's dumb not to.

There are also some scratches and wear on the clutch outer housing. Is this an issue?


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[dave500]

those are just rough machining marks,note how those rivett ends aren't marked?

[DaveBarbier]

those are just rough machining marks,note how those rivett ends aren't marked?

Ah, smart. Sounds good, thanks.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

So got the cases apart and after this picture took out my transmission. My transmission actually looks really good, minus the broken gear. I could just replace the gear and keep this one in, or just replace the whole thing. I'll probably replace the whole thing but I guess I'll look over both trannies and see if there's more wear I find.



Also, some crank bearings look pretty crap. I have plastigauge to heck clearances but what do you guys think? Here's a couple.


I'm also going to have to get a puller for this lower gear to take the primary and cam chain off, right? The manual shows a picture of what looks like a slide hammer that threads into the shaft.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[Bootsey]

One of the long rear engine mount bolts will thread into the primary shaft. Throw a big socket on the bolt, and use it as a slide hammer.

[DaveBarbier]

Aren't you replacing the chains with new? If so, just cut them with a Dremel tool.

Thought about that...but I still have to get the new one on...am I missing something? The primary chain is endless so I'd have to get the shaft out to put the new one on.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

One of the long rear engine mount bolts will thread into the primary shaft. Throw a big socket on the bolt, and use it as a slide hammer.

Ah, love it. I'll try that tomorrow morning before work. Or maybe I feel a sickness coming on and I'll "have to stay home". What happens in sohc4 stays in sohc4, right?


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[dave500]

those bearings will be ok,just don't mix up their positions,use a marker pen.

[MickB]

Dave Barbier-  Oddjob suggested to me to also replace the rubbers in the primary shaft clutch, available from David Silver or CSMNL and not too exy.

[DaveBarbier]

Dave Barbier-  Oddjob suggested to me to also replace the rubbers in the primary shaft clutch, available from David Silver or CSMNL and not too exy.

You mean these? They seem cheap enough, but all this is adding up quick. I'll think about it. Considering my bike has under 10k miles I'm not sure how crazy I'll have to be as far as replacing parts goes.

It's "the wallet" vs. "I've already got it open" and it's a close fight.

https://www.davidsilverspares.com/CB550K-1978-USA/part_145156/


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Ok, so just to summarize the new suggested parts that I should replace. Anything I'm missing?

Clutch Friction Discs
I'm looking at EBC.
(They're out of spec. but the plates and springs aren't. Since that can be done later when the motor is in the frame I'll wait on the plates and springs.)

Primary Sprocket Dampers
(Probably. Only because they'll only be about $30.)

Crank Bearings
(Not the connecting rod bearings. I don't think I want to have to replace the con rod stretch bolts for over $120 just to see if they're ok. I'll wait and see how far out of spec the other bearings in the crank are with plastigauge.)

Oil Seals
If I'm to replace the rubber main seals at the ends of the crank I'll have to get the big bolt off the rotor then pull the rotor which will be hard for me since the crank isn't held in place. I'll have to vice it or something. Maybe get an electric impact. Is it imperative to replace them?

If I do that I'm thinking of this oil seal kit off eBay. Thoughts? Plus, the PO probably put an o-ring chain on the bike for a short time and wore away some of that seal by the sprocket. It's not leaking but I think it's best to replace it, and it's in this kit I'm pretty sure.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=380997819063
I want to get a kit but David silver spares doesn't have a kit and individually they're expensive.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DavePhipps]

Aren't you replacing the chains with new? If so, just cut them with a Dremel tool.

Thought about that...but I still have to get the new one on...am I missing something? The primary chain is endless so I'd have to get the shaft out to put the new one on.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

I'm doing the same thing so I'd like to find out how that would work.

[DaveBarbier]

Aren't you replacing the chains with new? If so, just cut them with a Dremel tool.

Thought about that...but I still have to get the new one on...am I missing something? The primary chain is endless so I'd have to get the shaft out to put the new one on.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

I'm doing the same thing so I'd like to find out how that would work.

Just did what Bootsey said up in post #67. Worked like a charm. Use the lower engine mount bolt and put a big 1/2" socket on it. Worked like a charm. Mine was easy to remove. Just, WATCH OUT for needle bearings that are between the cam sprocket and shaft. Mine all stayed put but just be aware that these are in there and love to jump out and run around.




---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Just tested the bearing clearance. Cleaned the hell out of the bearings, front and back and in the lower and upper case and the crank. Installed it dry and torqued the cases together as per the manual.

Manual says to replace the crank bearings if the plastigauge is greater than .003". Just want to make sure I'm reading this right. It seems even less than .0015". This one is the smallest I think but they're all really close.

I'd say I'm good to keep these bearings.






---
1978 Honda CB550K

[Maurice]

Do you (did you...) have any false neutral anywhere on your transmission? Check the state of dogs/slots, see if there's any wear/rounding. If yours are good and the replacements are worn, I'd replace only the one gear. Maybe a good occasion to send them out for undercutting? These transmissions will create false neutrals right and left, with eventually some popping out of gear...

JMHO.

[DaveBarbier]

Do you (did you...) have any false neutral anywhere on your transmission? Check the state of dogs/slots, see if there's any wear/rounding. If yours are good and the replacements are worn, I'd replace only the one gear. Maybe a good occasion to send them out for undercutting? These transmissions will create false neutrals right and left, with eventually some popping out of gear...

JMHO.

Ah, ok, interesting. I'll look into that. It never did give me any issues. No false neutrals or popping out of gear. My tranny looks really good actually. I'll have to compare them side by side.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[Bootsey]

Plastigauge looks good, the wider the impression, the tighter the clearance. You've still got enough to play with by the looks of it.
Did you primary shaft and bearing come out together, or did the bearing stay in the case? Either way, when you get up to reassembling, pop it in the freezer for a few hours, and it should just slide in.
When you get up to it, it's a good idea to do a couple of dry test runs putting the cases back together, to make sure everything fits. I found it easier to do it upside down.

[DaveBarbier]

Aren't you replacing the chains with new? If so, just cut them with a Dremel tool.

Thought about that...but I still have to get the new one on...am I missing something? The primary chain is endless so I'd have to get the shaft out to put the new one on.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

I'm doing the same thing so I'd like to find out how that would work.

Just did what Bootsey said up in post #67. Worked like a charm. Use the lower engine mount bolt and put a big 1/2" socket on it. Worked like a charm. Mine was easy to remove. Just, WATCH OUT for needle bearings that are between the cam sprocket and shaft. Mine all stayed put but just be aware that these are in there and love to jump out and run around.




---
1978 Honda CB550K

I just realized I said cam sprocket. I meant starter clutch gear. So many names. It's like the Silmarillion...am I right people?


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Plastigauge looks good, the wider the impression, the tighter the clearance. You've still got enough to play with by the looks of it.

Yeah that's what I thought. But some bearing shells have slight scratches or something. I can feel it with my nail on some bearings. Don't they have to be perfectly smooth?

Did you primary shaft and bearing come out together, or did the bearing stay in the case? Either way, when you get up to reassembling, pop it in the freezer for a few hours, and it should just slide in.

It didn't, but I took it out because it felt a little gritty when I spun it. I was trying to clean it out by flushing oil in it but I might just get a new one. Thoughts?

But the outer starter clutch came off and the little rollers are keeping it from sliding back on all the way. Does that need to be disassembled to get it on?

When you get up to it, it's a good idea to do a couple of dry test runs putting the cases back together, to make sure everything fits. I found it easier to do it upside down.

I did the plastigauge upside down and yeah, it was a lot easier. The con rods just hang down so you don't need to try and thread them in the holes.

I'm going to order the stuff I listed earlier tonight because I don't want this sitting around for long. Hoping to get this done before October.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[Bootsey]

I had the same questions when I was reassembling. Apparently the bottom ends on these bikes are pretty bullet proof. Your shells haven't been starved of oil, so they should be good to go. Any minor imperfections can apparently help hold oil, and aren't to much to be concerned about when clearances are within spec, as long as the crankshaft journals also look OK.
Are you going to check the clearances on the rods too?

If you've got an air compressor, blow that bearing out, if there's any notching, or any lateral play, replace it.

My shaft and bearing came out as one.
To get the starter clutch back on, you have to carefully and gently rotate&angle it until you get the splines to line up, it takes a little bit of patience.

[DaveBarbier]

I had the same questions when I was reassembling. Apparently the bottom ends on these bikes are pretty bullet proof. Your shells haven't been starved of oil, so they should be good to go. Any minor imperfections can apparently help hold oil, and aren't to much to be concerned about when clearances are within spec, as long as the crankshaft journals also look OK.
Are you going to check the clearances on the rods too?

If you've got an air compressor, blow that bearing out, if there's any notching, or any lateral play, replace it.

My shaft and bearing came out as one.
To get the starter clutch back on, you have to carefully and gently rotate&angle it until you get the splines to line up, it takes a little bit of patience.

No, I'm not going to check the rods. Apparently these are stretch bolts and will/should be replaced if removed. And they're something like $15 per bolt. That's over $100. And since the other bearings are well within spec I'm going to assume they're good too.

I don't have an air compressor, just cans of air...I'll give it a shot.

Just ordering parts now. Hopefully they'll be in by this weekend.

Thanks Bootsey!


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

I was trying to do some searches but could find a picture of an acceptable amount of cleaning on gasket surfaces. Either a paper gasket or sealant surfaces. So far these are very smooth but you can see stains in some of the pictures. Is that ok or does it all have to be shiny aluminum?

Case half surface:



Clutch cover surface:
(This is how some of the worst looks.)



---
1978 Honda CB550K

[dave500]

chase all the threads with a bottom tap and compressed air,dig a skinny screwdriver down into them to be sure they are fully clear.

[DaveBarbier]

Ok cool, thanks guys. Trying to get someone to soda blast these things so I can paint them. I was considering prepping for paint by hand with brushes and aircraft stripper but soda seems like the best method for removing everything.


---
1978 Honda CB550K