Author Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build  (Read 340426 times)

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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #275 on: November 03, 2014, 07:39:24 am »
I use these, they can run circles around Honda clamps:


Offline dave500

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #276 on: November 03, 2014, 11:35:53 am »
WOW its huge though?

Offline calj737

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #277 on: November 03, 2014, 11:40:07 am »
Christ sakes, if you've got 4 of them in your bike, the fuel bill must be ASTRONOMICAL
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Maurice

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #278 on: November 03, 2014, 11:50:13 am »
That's ok, he probably works in the oil pipeline industry.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #279 on: November 03, 2014, 12:05:20 pm »
I stole them from T-55 when I served in military.  ;D

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #280 on: November 05, 2014, 06:24:56 am »
Ok, so I'm still at it. But a couple snags. I did try to turn the IMS out from 1.5 to 2.5 turns. I'm no guru but that smelled a lot richer and it didn't seem to run as smooth. Also just for #$%*s I rechecked the timing and both 1-4 and 2-3 were dancing around a lot at full advance. Check out the video. I know it's hard to tell because the frame rate of my phone and the light timing aren't playing well with each other. But to me it seems like the plugs are starting to or are fouled? Or bad advance mechanism even though it's clean and feels good? Or bad coils?


I do have a box of 20 spark plugs I bought so I plan on replacing the plugs and checking and rechecking the timing and valve clearance. But right now the issues still are:

• Idle climbs and is varying
• Black smoke when revved (also when I went out for a ride my sister was following me to get gas and she said it smelled heavy of fuel. I was giving it the beans a lot so maybe my needle is too high and/or main jet is too big. Although it feels ok at 3/4-WOT.) When going from 4-4 exhaust to 4-1 with muffler does that really make it flow better than stock? Is it possible that I didn't have to enlarge the main jet as much as I did?
90 -> 110

I have a family friend coming down in a couple days who knows a lot and has more tools. I'm 30 and he's 65 and knows old Hondas well. And being that age he knows more about carburetors than I do. He has a good set of vacuum gauges, too. I can't get my carbs synced when I use the Motion Pro manometer with the blue fluid. It runs rough but all the fluid levels are even.

I've also been looking for air leaks and can't find a single thing.

So I'm almost at a loss but I'll keep you guys posted.

Final question, this post has morphed from a splitting cases topic into...pretty much a carb/air leak issue or something else. Do I have the authority to change the title to a build thread or is that frowned upon?

Thanks guys!


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Offline Tews19

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #281 on: November 05, 2014, 06:56:12 am »
It's your thread. Change at will. Black smoke means carbon build up. Most likely due to the bike running rich. Didn't you mention you changed the needle height? Maybe go back to stock if you did?
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Offline Maurice

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #282 on: November 05, 2014, 07:06:59 am »
That's tuning with pods for you...

What RPMs are you running in the video? I'd say 2k? The motor does not sound very steady, like synch is off a bit. Sounds muffled to me too.

Timing looks good enough to ride until carb is sorted, IMO. One thing at a time.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #283 on: November 05, 2014, 07:39:19 am »

Didn't you mention you changed the needle height? Maybe go back to stock if you did?

Yes, I upped the mains and raised the needle per Harrisuluv's suggestions. Not knocking him at all obviously, the man knows his stuff. It was a guess when all he knew was pods and 4-1. Maybe it turns out that this muffler isn't as free flowing we I thought. It's the 18" quiet core reverse cone from Dime City Cycles.

That's tuning with pods for you...
Weird thing was I was having the same issue with the idle earlier this summer with stock airbox and exhaust. Needed new carbs because mine were cracked and pitted. Sold the exhaust to pay for the new carbs.

What RPMs are you running in the video? I'd say 2k? The motor does not sound very steady, like synch is off a bit. Sounds muffled to me too.

Timing looks good enough to ride until carb is sorted, IMO. One thing at a time.

More like 3000-3500. I might have been covering the microphone with my hand as I was recording. I'm sure sync is off. I only bench synced with a drill bit. But as I said earlier my sync tool says they're almost perfectly synced...that's why I don't trust it.


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Offline Maurice

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #284 on: November 05, 2014, 07:53:52 am »
3k RPM? Are you sure all cylinders are firing? That does not sound like 3000 rpm. To me at least.

Edit: Here, I found one that goes to 3k:
HTH

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #285 on: November 05, 2014, 08:00:36 am »
I'm pretty sure it was around 3k. And all pipes were hot but it could have been misfiring from fouled plugs. Sounds are hard to show over the Internet. From my little phone's mic to your phone's or computer's speakers. It's rarely accurate.


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Offline Maurice

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #286 on: November 05, 2014, 08:11:06 am »
Fair enough you could be right about plugs fouling.

I think I have some 105 jets if you want to try that. Maybe 100s? I don't know let me look tonight when I get home.

Those are PD carbs, right?

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #287 on: November 05, 2014, 09:46:19 am »

Fair enough you could be right about plugs fouling.

I think I have some 105 jets if you want to try that. Maybe 100s? I don't know let me look tonight when I get home.

Those are PD carbs, right?

Thanks Maurice, I really appreciate it but in anticipation of jetting for pods I did actually get 95's, 100's, 105's and 110's..

And yes, PD46C. How necessary is it to sync after a jet change? I might wait until I have access to a better sync tool.


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Offline Maurice

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #288 on: November 05, 2014, 09:59:29 am »
You will (not 'might' or 'may') only have to synch after touching the needles... Or if you separate the carbs.

No need when swapping jets. Actually on these PD carbs (maybe others) you can swap mains on the bike if you want.

What does the bike do at WOT? Sputters, falls flat, pulls strong all the way to redline (pick a safe place to check that, eh)? But read the carb faq if you haven't already.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #289 on: November 05, 2014, 11:12:20 am »

You will (not 'might' or 'may') only have to synch after touching the needles... Or if you separate the carbs.

No need when swapping jets. Actually on these PD carbs (maybe others) you can swap mains on the bike if you want.

What does the bike do at WOT? Sputters, falls flat, pulls strong all the way to redline (pick a safe place to check that, eh)? But read the carb faq if you haven't already.

That's what I figured. And yeah, I've noticed I can swap the jets with just taking off the bowls while they're still on the bike.

I have been reading the FAQ on carbs a lot. That's why it's a little weird, it smokes and smells very rich at WOT but it pulls strong and smooth...in a straight, flat, cop-less stretch of road.

Like you said earlier though, one thing at a time. I think I'll focus on the idle then worry about the mains and needle position. I'll be doing plug chops soon enough hopefully.

Speaking of which. Plug chopping at idle, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and WOT is enough right? And I've seen on YouTube people doing it with the bike still. But on the FAQ it suggests doing it while riding so it's under load. Big difference in the two?


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Offline Maurice

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #290 on: November 05, 2014, 11:32:10 am »
Can you post a video of what idle is like after warmed up? How low it can go, return to idle after blip, things like that. It is very surprising that it runs rich with pods. Is there a dead rat in your exhaust or something? Also running rich at idle it will want to bog down and die, not scream up into the RPMs.

No plug chops at idle. Otherwise yes it's preferable under load. Worry about it when you get there.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #291 on: November 05, 2014, 12:18:02 pm »
Wait, you guys don't keep your dead rats in your muffler?! Where else am I supposed to put him?

I can post a video maybe tomorrow. Right now I just decided to pull the carbs again because I remember I never made sure the IMS were installed properly. As far as I know the guy put them in backwards. But for #$%*s I removed the OEM 42 slow jets. I saw this before and it never occurred to me. This is why it's running rich.



I'm holding the stock 42 and an aftermarket 45 slow jet. Guess which is which...wrong! The left is the 42. What gives? Was this drilled out by the PO? He did other questionable things like electrical tape the leaking front brake line so I wouldn't be surprised.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline Maurice

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #292 on: November 05, 2014, 12:27:14 pm »
Doh! You got PO'd.

It's a wonder it ran at all. I bet with the 45 jets it will run much better straight away.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #293 on: November 05, 2014, 12:46:12 pm »

Doh! You got PO'd.

It's a wonder it ran at all. I bet with the 45 jets it will run much better straight away.

I'd rather get KO'd than PO'd. But too bad I can't run it right now. It's raining and I probably won't be able to test it until maybe Friday or Saturday. Keep you guys posted. Jeepers creepers I hope this fixes something.


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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #294 on: November 08, 2014, 12:44:23 pm »
Ok, big update. I was working with my family friend and the bike seems now to be running really well! The drilled out pilot jet really screwed me. It was drilled out as you can see in the above picture to about double the size of the 45 slow jet. We put in real 42's again, IMS 1 turn out from seated and kept the 110 mains. After adjusting the timing again and a good carb sync it idles at a hair over 1000 and revs quick and drops right back down. It's 45° F and I'm out riding. So far so good. I'll post back if it all goes to #$%* again.

Thanks for all the help guys.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline dave500

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #295 on: November 08, 2014, 12:56:16 pm »
good one.

Offline MickB

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #296 on: November 08, 2014, 02:53:06 pm »
Great to hear Dave.

Got a picture of the bike on the side stand with the front wheel on opposite lock.
Weather here in Sydney is a balmy 90F. Mick

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #297 on: November 09, 2014, 04:48:40 am »

Great to hear Dave.

Got a picture of the bike on the side stand with the front wheel on opposite lock.
Weather here in Sydney is a balmy 90F. Mick

Haha, I'm not a real hot weather guy so I think I'd take 45 over a balmy 90. But today is going to be a scorcher...55°F and sunny! I'll be sure to post a picture with the bike striking that pose today.

Thanks for the help Mick


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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #298 on: November 09, 2014, 12:40:22 pm »
Out and about. This is perfect riding weather in my opinion. 57° and sunny.








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Offline Tews19

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #299 on: November 09, 2014, 04:37:24 pm »
I like the leather seat! Now we need a video of it running!
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
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