Author Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build  (Read 340285 times)

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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #625 on: June 23, 2015, 12:34:36 pm »
Removed the pressed in flare fittings. A lot easier than I thought. Now just to find a machine shop to mill the surface down.



Pried up with needle nose pliers.




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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline GV1390

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #626 on: June 24, 2015, 06:21:54 am »
Got my new clipons and they are perfect with my Nissin MC. They are really nice quality. I'd recommend them for sure.



http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=190714880810

I can move the MC all the way up the bar as close as I want to the forks without hitting the clipon pinch clamp. Will install this weekend and hopefully then be all set for the warm weather. Just need a haircut.


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1978 Honda CB550K

What MC is this?
93' GSX-R1100, 78' CB550, 71' CL350, 71’ CB500 & 02' ZRX1200R.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #627 on: June 24, 2015, 07:35:31 am »

Got my new clipons and they are perfect with my Nissin MC. They are really nice quality. I'd recommend them for sure.



http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=190714880810

I can move the MC all the way up the bar as close as I want to the forks without hitting the clipon pinch clamp. Will install this weekend and hopefully then be all set for the warm weather. Just need a haircut.


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1978 Honda CB550K

What MC is this?

Hey GV, I've seen it called the Retro Nissin master cylinder. Comes in different size bores. This is my exact one.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151593590459&globalID=EBAY-US

Shows you how much more DCC sells things for.
http://www.dimecitycycles.com/vintage-caferacer-cafe-racer-bobber-brat-chopper-custom-motorcycle-brake-parts-black-aluminum-nissin-retro-hydraulic-front-brake-master-cylinder-717-654e.html

Hope that helps.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #628 on: June 24, 2015, 11:10:18 am »
Damn, apparently it's a lot harder to mill these calipers than I thought. I called and stopped in to a bunch of local machine shops and they didn't seem too confident. They said it's the setup which would be difficult because the surface isn't squared up or easy to clamp in a vise. And they said it's going to be like $50 to $100 per caliper! I thought machine shops would have an XY vise with an ability to angle the jaws easily. And this is in Bridgeport, CT...home of the Bridgeport milling machine!

Any suggestions? I'm probably going to weld up a fixture for the caliper to bolt to unless someone has a better idea.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline Tews19

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #629 on: June 24, 2015, 11:12:00 am »
Talk to Godffrey. He may be able to help you.
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #630 on: June 24, 2015, 11:22:01 am »

Talk to Godffrey. He may be able to help you.

Yeah, but that involves shipping them out and waiting, ha. I'd like to get this done by this weekend.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #631 on: June 24, 2015, 11:26:02 am »
So while you figure out how to machine the calipers, how is the new 650 engine build coming along?  I was wondering where you are sourcing new seals and gaskets.  Dealership parts or a particular vendor?
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
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2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #632 on: June 24, 2015, 11:53:03 am »
Still on the tear down. Just been sitting until I have the time to drill out the screws on the oil pump to remove it. After that, cleaning all gasket surfaces and soda blasting. Then sending to machine shop for boring, pressure tank cleaning and removal and maybe installation of studs. But I have to get the Dynoman 674 kit first, and that depends on money (that's always the kicker). It will most likely sit for a little bit after soda blasting until I gather funds for this project. Right now all internal parts are stretch wrapped and sitting on shelves. As for gaskets and seals, I'm going to do OEM for seals (probably source them individually as I did my 550*) and get as many OEM gaskets as I can, then get some kind of appropriate head gasket. I'm not really thinking about it yet, though. Still a lot of research to do. I think I'm planning on finishing this project this winter.

*Partzilla was a great resource for the OEM seals.

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Offline calj737

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #633 on: June 24, 2015, 12:30:43 pm »
Dave - I don't recall if you posted it or not, but is your brake hard line double flared as it goes into the caliper? If not, it needs to be to create the complete seal.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline calj737

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #634 on: June 24, 2015, 12:33:49 pm »
Damn, apparently it's a lot harder to mill these calipers than I thought. Any suggestions?
It's not hard. Clamp the caliper into the deck vise. Rotate the head to the axis of the threaded hole. Use a small diameter end mill, and walk it in to square the mating surface. 6' if the machinist is competent.

Can't get it done? Ship it to me.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #635 on: June 24, 2015, 12:56:04 pm »

Dave - I don't recall if you posted it or not, but is your brake hard line double flared as it goes into the caliper? If not, it needs to be to create the complete seal.

I didn't post it, but yes, they were double flared. But those seals only barely seeped. The ones at the splitter and MC were the main issues. I take that to be the line from the MC to splitter was short and needed to be coaxed into being in the right orientation for the banjo bolt. Maybe I was asking for too much, but I tested it by having the lever squeezed over night. Then in the morning I felt the joints and they were very wet. Not dripping, but wet enough for me not to like it.

Damn, apparently it's a lot harder to mill these calipers than I thought. Any suggestions?
It's not hard. Clamp the caliper into the deck vise. Rotate the head to the axis of the threaded hole. Use a small diameter end mill, and walk it in to square the mating surface. 6' if the machinist is competent.

Can't get it done? Ship it to me.

That's was I was thinking. But they didn't feel that way. I wanted to say, "just go have lunch for a bit and I'll get it done myself."

Thanks, but right now I'm making a cage for the calipers to bolt on to to make the hole exactly vertical (and the milling surface to be exactly horizontal). If I can't get someone to do it, I'll break into a shop. If that doesn't work and I get arrested, I'll use my one phone call to tell a friend to ship them to you, ha. I really just don't see how it's that big of a deal for these guys. About $200 and a week's time? I don't think so.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline calj737

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #636 on: June 24, 2015, 01:15:01 pm »
If you do get arrested, for $200 I'll smuggle tools into you packed within frozen meat and you can tunnel out. Your caliper and splitter will be squared, milled and waiting on you.

Let me know-
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #637 on: June 24, 2015, 01:34:54 pm »

If you do get arrested, for $200 I'll smuggle tools into you packed within frozen meat and you can tunnel out. Your caliper and splitter will be squared, milled and waiting on you.

Let me know-

Good idea, seems to be the way to do it lately.

I'll definitely let you know, I'd like to get this done sooner rather than later, but I might have to bend to the will of the world. Thanks


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline Godffery

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #638 on: June 24, 2015, 07:24:16 pm »
I've literately done about a hundred Banjo conversions, easiest method of dealing with the crush washer issue is to get a thin wall style so it will drop in the recess on the caliper.
If you cant find a thin wall one, put a regular one on a tapered punch and grind off the outer OD till it drops in.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #639 on: June 25, 2015, 04:38:39 am »
I don't know why I didn't think of altering the washer. My surfaces on the caliper don't look the best but I'll see if there are any nicks once I clean them up. Otherwise, I'm sending to Cal. I'm a little upset with Bridgeport due to all the 9 shops I spoke to thought it was going to be an expensive, time consuming hassle.
 
Your rotors have only been used once so far! They're crying for more riding! I'm getting so antsy, I need to ride asap. I never took that ride with my buddies that I was talking about because of the brake lines leaking.

Thanks Godffrey


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #640 on: June 25, 2015, 05:06:59 am »
I was going to suggest the washer solution, believe it or not  ;D

I don't know why I didn't think of altering the washer. My surfaces on the caliper don't look the best but I'll see if there are any nicks once I clean them up. Otherwise, I'm sending to Cal. I'm a little upset with Bridgeport due to all the 9 shops I spoke to thought it was going to be an expensive, time consuming hassle.
 
Your rotors have only been used once so far! They're crying for more riding! I'm getting so antsy, I need to ride asap. I never took that ride with my buddies that I was talking about because of the brake lines leaking.

Thanks Godffrey


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #641 on: June 25, 2015, 05:12:45 am »

I was going to suggest the washer solution, believe it or not  ;D

I don't know why I didn't think of altering the washer. My surfaces on the caliper don't look the best but I'll see if there are any nicks once I clean them up. Otherwise, I'm sending to Cal. I'm a little upset with Bridgeport due to all the 9 shops I spoke to thought it was going to be an expensive, time consuming hassle.
 
Your rotors have only been used once so far! They're crying for more riding! I'm getting so antsy, I need to ride asap. I never took that ride with my buddies that I was talking about because of the brake lines leaking.

Thanks Godffrey


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1978 Honda CB550K

Suuuure, haha! But yeah, it's pretty obvious of a solution but I just cleaned the paint and slight patina off the surfaces and they're pitted enough where I don't feel like trying to get it to seal. A machined surface will be much better. This weekend there's going to be thunderstorms up here so I'm not missing much.

I'll post on how they work once I get them back.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline Godffery

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #642 on: June 26, 2015, 02:20:43 am »
A small flat end stone bit in a Variable Speed Reversible Drill will do the trick for cleaning up that surface. It just needs to be the proper size OD to drop in the recess.



Also, I stack 2 of the crush washers on that inner side (3 in total) The modified one it the very bottom then a standard one on top of that, then the banjo & then the final washer on top. 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 02:23:15 am by Godffery »

Offline Godffery

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #643 on: June 26, 2015, 02:50:52 am »
 BTW; regarding Braking performance, it is important to be sure both the inner & outer pads are making full flat even contact with the rotor.  To test the contact area, (with everything assembled) slip a sheet  of 80 grit sand paper between one of the pads & rotor (grit side to the pad) slide it back & forth till your sure it will leave marking on the pad. Remove the caliper to inspect the area that has been scuffed by the sand paper, if it is less then 100%, sand the pad to the required angle to get the full potential of the braking. 

Eventually, this pad surfaces will wear in to full contact, but it's hard on the Rotor and Caliper pivot arm and makes for a spongy feeling at the lever.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 02:55:17 am by Godffery »

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #644 on: June 26, 2015, 05:31:50 am »
Thanks Godffrey, I already sent them to Cal for some proper machining. I wouldn't trust myself with a cordless drill and a bit like that. Especially since I wasn't getting a great seal on a few joints previously. I'd rather wait and get it machined. My new lines aren't coming in till next week anyway, so I can wait.

As far as performance, the lever feels pretty hard once I left the handle squeezed over night. And the pads seem to be hitting perfectly on the rotor. What I did was assemble the calipers on the arms and hooked them up to the brake lines but not attached to the fork. Placed the calipers on the rotors and squeezed the lever so they would find the proper orientation themselves. Then used washers or filed down the fork to match. When I get it assembled again I'll double check this and use the sandpaper method you describe.

I'm disregarding the spongy lever feeling before when I had leaks, it could have been sucking in small amounts of air into the lines.

Thanks


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1978 Honda CB550K

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #645 on: June 26, 2015, 06:31:03 pm »
I noticed before I got this bearing out of the 650 it seemed a little loose. It had no wiggle side to side, but it moved as you can see in the video. My 550 one was really tight but this one...not so much. It still took a drift and small hammer to remove but it seems this shouldn't happen. Thoughts?

And please forgive the vertical filming. I hate that I didn't notice it.



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Offline Tews19

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #646 on: June 26, 2015, 06:34:51 pm »
DB that's really loose. Hmmm. I hate it when it's like throwing a hot dog down a hallway!?
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #647 on: June 26, 2015, 06:50:12 pm »

DB that's really loose. Hmmm. I hate it when it's like throwing a hot dog down a hallway!?

Yeah it seems loose, I guess this 650 has been turning tricks...hope it doesn't rub off on my 550! It was only this loose when it was completely seated. But as it started to come out it tightened up.

I guess I don't see a problem with it. I don't think there's a possibility of the outer race spinning. But I just don't want this to be indicative of a primary shaft having runout. 


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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #648 on: June 27, 2015, 12:06:34 am »
There sure seems to be a lot of play.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #649 on: June 27, 2015, 07:37:38 am »
Been doing some searching and all I can find is this post: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68853.0

I guess I could try a super thin amount of hardening sealer or my Loctite 518 that I'm going to use on the cases. Just not sure if I should be worried about it. I'm leaning towards no, but I really have no authority to say that, haha.


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1978 Honda CB550K