Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[DaveBarbier]

Seems like everyone who offers the CR carbs for the 650 recommend the 29s. Many websites say the 26s are for the smaller SOHC4s. I've read a lot on this forum, though, that 550 guys use the 26s. Strange. Still, only thing I'm really trying to accomplish is getting mechanical slide carbs to fit on the '82 650. Going to do more research and see what I come up with.

Frankly, I would go with what Mike Reick recommends based upon your application -- street use.

Yeah I'll definitely get his opinion and most likely just go with what he thinks. Would be really nice to get a rack of CRs, but I'm going to exhaust cheaper options first. Would love to just get some 750 carbs and have a plate machined for the right spacing and that be that. But I'll have to deal with slide linkages and fuel and air hoses and choke stuff...should be fun.

[DaveBarbier]

Side note, got my new pair of TEC condensers off eBay. Saturday can't come quick enough.

[P.abrera]

Have recently seen a 4-into-1 carb set up at a buddy's shop. Manifold from from head into one big carb. Duno how it performs but it was interesting.


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[DaveBarbier]

Have recently seen a 4-into-1 carb set up at a buddy's shop. Manifold from from head into one big carb. Duno how it performs but it was interesting.


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I was thinking about this a while ago when my 550 carbs were giving me sh*t during the summer. It definitely simplifies things, but why would Honda do 4 individual carbs? I like the look of 4 carbs anyway, and don't plan to go changing things around that much, but it is definitely interesting!

[DaveBarbier]

I bet you Mike or Bodi or Andrew (TrueBlue) know of a carb swap or manifold swap to fit other carb types. This carb and exhaust issue is about the only thing dissuading me from a 650 engine bump, personally.

Got a couple emails going, we'll see what happens. Haven't even started looking into exhaust yet.

The manifold is integrated on this 650 so can't swap just that. If that was an option I bet that would make it easier to fit more carbs.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Unfortunately I already have the later '82 top end and rebuilt stock 650 carbs from Harisuluv. Otherwise, I might consider sourcing a 79-80 head, which matches the 750 spacing and allows you to easily use 750 slide carbs or CRs spaced for a 750.

Let me know what size CRs Mike recommends.

[DaveBarbier]

Will definitely post that info.

[DaveBarbier]

Got my new condensers in and installed. Set point gap and found them off a bit so I adjusted them. Then went to tweak the timing. 1-4 is perfect and easy to get perfect, but 2-3 is a pain. I'm running out of room on the adjuster and it still won't reach the advance marks. It's super retarded...in ignition speak. Tried shimming the plate at the 4 o'clock mark and that didn't help, tried the other two places and it didn't work either. So then my battery drained...and it's a Shorai. Hope I didn't brick it. It was at just over 7 volts, I'm charging it now.

I even disconnected my headlight to save power. Damn. I just wasn't thinking of draining my battery while I was using the timing lightbulb method of static timing.

Any thoughts on the points? I remember 2-3 has always been hard to get unless you shim the plate. But this time it still didn't work.

[DaveBarbier]

Daichi points? Shame on you! 

TEC plate, TEC condensers, TEC advancer...daiichi points *lowers head*

I got both points to be good, almost exactly between the advance hash marks after some fiddling. It was weird, I would move the 2-3 point while it was running and it would move closer to the case hash mark,  but then I move it a bit more and it would then start moving farther away. I had to fiddle with it then lock it down when it was close. I found that shimming at the top of the plate worked best for me.

I'm going on eBay and buying TEC points right now.

[DaveBarbier]

Also, Shorai is charging and at 13.9 volts. Hope it holds a charge.

[DaveBarbier]

After a half hour ride the bike feels great...as good as it did before this condenser issue.

BUT!!! There's always a problem. My headlight is smoking. Came to a stop at home and saw this:

My low beam has been blowing lately. It happened twice when out for longish rides with a lot of RPM climbing. I removed the grounds inside the headlight bucket that go to the headlight ears a little bit ago and thought that was the issue. I put them back (two ground wires soldered to washers and used to bolt the headlight on) and thought that would've fixed the issue. The headlight hasn't blown at all, but probably because I haven't been out long enough. But smoking isn't good. Smells like burning plastic/wires. The glass is hot and when I took off the front of the light the headlight connector was very hot and the exposed terminals of the bulb burned my hand. Normal? Is see that the connector has a little blue tinge to it where the white wire connects.

I may have a short, right? Or poor ground?

[RAFster122s]

Run a good ground wire tying the headlight bucket to the battery negative or frame ground point. It can be that your headlamp is too high wattage if wired correctly or your bucket doesn't have a good ground.  It happens.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Heads up, Dave.  The CB650 can use the APE studs BUT instead of 6 long/6 short (as with the 550), you will need 10 short/2 long. 

This leaves you with some options: (1) combine more short studs from a second APE kit (which I am doing to allow me to torque down the head more and avoid leaks); (2) re-use your stock 650 studs; or (3) source NOS short bolts/studs and find 2 new 8x145 long bolts to match (as these do not appear to be available anymore).

[DaveBarbier]

Thanks guys, I'll definitely run a good ground. 16 awg or would I have to go with something a little beefier?

[Restoration Fan]

As for the 8x145, good luck! I had to make an 8x155 for my 500 build as there does not seem to be a replacement on earth 

Cal,
Are you guys looking for an 8x145 bolt?  If so, what type of head...allen, Phillips?

[DaveBarbier]

Heads up, Dave.

Pun intended?

The CB650 can use the APE studs BUT instead of 6 long/6 short (as with the 550), you will need 10 short/2 long. 

This leaves you with some options: (1) combine more short studs from a second APE kit (which I am doing to allow me to torque down the head more and avoid leaks); (2) re-use your stock 650 studs; or (3) source NOS short bolts/studs and find 2 new 8x145 long bolts to match (as these do not appear to be available anymore).

Thanks for this. I'll definitely try to combine studs. I won't reuse my stock bolts because they're shot.

Wonder if APE does custom length studs.

[DaveBarbier]

As for the 8x145, good luck! I had to make an 8x155 for my 500 build as there does not seem to be a replacement on earth 

Cal,
Are you guys looking for an 8x145 bolt?  If so, what type of head...allen, Phillips?

Talking head studs here. I don't know the exact thread pitches on the ends off hand.

[Restoration Fan]

8s are 1.25

Ron - I'm all good now, just made it out of 304 stainless and welded on a nut.

OK.  The reason I ask is that my buddy Mike (who helped Logan as project facilitator on his project) turned me on to this place called Threads For The South here in Marietta, GA.  It's within 5 miles from my office and Mike was saying that you can get pretty much any type of bolt, nut, screw, etc you ever want from this place.  They primarily sell industrial but they do have a retail side of the shop as well.  I was going to run in there and check if you guys needed something.

[DaveBarbier]

Forgot I had a spare full wiring harness from the 650! I was looking through old wire I have and only found a pink wire that I wanted to use. But now I have an actual ground wire of the right gauge and color.

[DaveBarbier]

Any problem in running the ground wire right by the coils or close, almost touching the plug wires? I'm thinking of high voltage interference from the coils.

[DaveBarbier]

Ground is on. Under the coils on the right side of the spine there's a couple of 6mm threaded holes. I used one of these for the ground attachment. Cleaned the paint off, ran a tap down it and it seems to be a good ground. The other end connects in the bucket to the ground wires that the headlight connects to. Should be good enough I think. Hope it works out and I'm not smoking anymore. Although it gave out a nice mysterious aura when I pulled up in the dark with my headlight illuminating the smoke. If the light was purple tinted I would be Prince.

EDIT: And just to clarify, I removed the grounds from the headlight bolts and now just have the (what looks like to be the equivalent of 14awg) ground wire running back to the spine.

EDIT II: After about an hour ride no smoking headlight. Seems to be ok, we shall see. Thanks guys

[DaveBarbier]

Thanks to Charlie David I got some used CR26's! And also thanks to Cal for giving me the heads up on the sale!

Have to take them apart and see exactly what I'm missing from them, if anything. Is there a microfiche for these things anywhere? How about a good resource for factory jets and consumables like gaskets and o-rings?

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Nice score, Dave.  Are you going to use them for the 650 engine, too?

[DaveBarbier]

Nice score, Dave.  Are you going to use them for the 650 engine, too?

Yeah, that's the plan. Actually using them exclusively for the 650, they're not going on the 550 at all. Hopefully ordering the Dynoman 674 kit this week, too.

[DaveBarbier]

Here's some pages of the CR manual Retro posted a while back...

And here's a thread I bookmarked for reference....
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=123033.175

FunJimmy uses them on his Gentlemans Roadster and should be a wealth of guidance. His bike is a 550 with some work, so actual configs will differ. And of course, I've got a set for my 500, but that's a whole different animal and they're still boxed awaiting completion on that project.

Reading through the post a little already seems like a great read, thanks brother!

I might try and see if I can find one of the user manuals. Always good to have I think.

I read through FunJimmy's posts and yeah, I'll probably be contacting him with help along the way.