Author Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build  (Read 340572 times)

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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #975 on: September 08, 2015, 11:50:25 am »

Forgot to tell you the source for the silicone wire is a good hobby shop catering to RC cars or aircraft.  Theu commonly stock at least a 14ga silicone sheathed wire snd often have a 12 ga as well.  It is at least a 49 strand or higher count strand construction.  It could be a 60, I have not counted it but it is super flexible with a good silicon insulation.  Negative about the silicone wire insulation is it can be abraded very easily by vibration and sharp edges, so you must be certain it is protected.  They carry red. And black and will often have blue.
David

Thanks Dave, I was looking at that kind of wire during my researching. I have some wire coming in in the next couple days that should be perfect. We'll see. I've known that welding wire is good to use but in looking around I found that two brands are what people say is the best stuff in terms of chemical/abrasion resistance, flexibility and conductivity. They are Tough Flex and Tristar. I'm getting in some Tough Flex...fingers crossed.

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #976 on: September 10, 2015, 03:36:39 pm »
Any progress on the 650 power plant, or is that on hold until Winter?
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #977 on: September 10, 2015, 05:05:22 pm »

Any progress on the 650 power plant, or is that on hold until Winter?
On hold-ish. Need to get carbs from Godffery when he has the CR26s in stock again (the used ones I got didn't work out) so I'm getting new ones and I'm still trying to get a hold of Mike to talk about machining. Although funds are tight right now so that's good I haven't heard from him, haha.

But my goal is to buy the carbs, get all the machining done and start assembly of the motor before the new year. I want to drop the new motor in the frame mid winter.

Also in the process of building an additional shed on my property (actually a shipping container which I'll make into a shed by adding windows and such) which will give me more room for my work space.

How about you?

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #978 on: September 10, 2015, 05:54:46 pm »

Any progress on the 650 power plant, or is that on hold until Winter?
On hold-ish. Need to get carbs from Godffery when he has the CR26s in stock again (the used ones I got didn't work out) so I'm getting new ones and I'm still trying to get a hold of Mike to talk about machining. Although funds are tight right now so that's good I haven't heard from him, haha.

But my goal is to buy the carbs, get all the machining done and start assembly of the motor before the new year. I want to drop the new motor in the frame mid winter.

Also in the process of building an additional shed on my property (actually a shipping container which I'll make into a shed by adding windows and such) which will give me more room for my work space.

How about you?

I spoke to Mike today. My cam and rockers should ship directly from Megacycle soon. Head and cylinders are at the machinist. All other engine parts ready to go.

I am also looking into a shipping container for a shop. I spend too much on my storage space.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #979 on: September 10, 2015, 06:56:54 pm »
Awesome sounds good, Don. I can't wait until I'm able to go ahead and get the machining done.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #980 on: September 13, 2015, 07:08:01 pm »
Question on wire cross section (millimeter squared) vs AWG. My m-unit says not to use smaller than 10mm2 for the power. It comes with a wire that says 10mm2 on the insulation which is almost exactly the same size as some 8 AWG I have (but I've heard some people say it's 10 AWG). But if I measure the wire diameter I get about 5mm. What is the 10mm2 referring to? AND if you go use a mm2 to AWG converter online it says 10mm2 is about 7 AWG.

Please shed some light on this, I don't get it! Thanks!

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #981 on: September 13, 2015, 10:18:54 pm »
Insulation thickness varies with the specs that the wires are rated at and the insulation type. The copper wireinside is made up of strands of smaller wire. They typically start with 7 strands, one wire in the center with six wires surrounding it. Flexible wire is going to have at least 49 strands with it going up from there. The wire size and space between wires plays a role in the actual coper density or cross sectional are. This can be measured in two axis to give mm2 (squared millimeters) or expressed as a decimal reading in inches squared.
American Wire Gauge (AWG) is used in the USA but most countries in other parts of the world go by mm2 measurement.
I am not sure how you really can measure it accurately.
Lots of commonly found wire strippers are designed for solid wire, this is why you end up cutting some strands of very high count stranded wire. Most of the time it is not going to matter much losing a few wires of a stranded wire of over 100 wires. We aren't dealing with things requiring high tolerances.

Go to Wikipedia and read up on the stranded wires and insulation type and things like that if it suits your curiosity. 

I don't know how to tell you to measure a wire if it isn't marked. Like you said, you can get close using the wire strippers starting large and working down to see which one cuts through the insulation without cutting the strands. Otherwise, you need the specs on the wire from the maker.

David

David- back in the desert SW!

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #982 on: September 14, 2015, 01:56:03 am »

Insulation thickness varies with the specs that the wires are rated at and the insulation type. The copper wireinside is made up of strands of smaller wire. They typically start with 7 strands, one wire in the center with six wires surrounding it. Flexible wire is going to have at least 49 strands with it going up from there. The wire size and space between wires plays a role in the actual coper density or cross sectional are. This can be measured in two axis to give mm2 (squared millimeters) or expressed as a decimal reading in inches squared.
American Wire Gauge (AWG) is used in the USA but most countries in other parts of the world go by mm2 measurement.
I am not sure how you really can measure it accurately.
Lots of commonly found wire strippers are designed for solid wire, this is why you end up cutting some strands of very high count stranded wire. Most of the time it is not going to matter much losing a few wires of a stranded wire of over 100 wires. We aren't dealing with things requiring high tolerances.

Go to Wikipedia and read up on the stranded wires and insulation type and things like that if it suits your curiosity. 

I don't know how to tell you to measure a wire if it isn't marked. Like you said, you can get close using the wire strippers starting large and working down to see which one cuts through the insulation without cutting the strands. Otherwise, you need the specs on the wire from the maker.

David

Oh ok, haha. I'm glad it's more complex than I though and I wasn't just measuring it wrong.

Thanks!

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #983 on: September 19, 2015, 09:14:14 am »
Might be able to finish the wiring soon and go for a ride today! Coming together really nicely.

For fuse holders I'm using GM/Delphi fuse holders. They're awesome.






After talking with the guys over at a Revival Cycles (they answer questions really quickly about their products even if you don't buy from them) and they said that the wire that comes with the m-Unit is "absurdly large". They use 12 AWG for the power. I settled on 10 AWG because the fuse holders only go up to that size. And it's not easy to find (although I eventually did) inline fuse holders that take ATC/ATO fuses for 8 AWG (the size of the included power wire).

Got a cheap but nice ferrule crimper off Amazon because I wanted to make sure these things are secure and strong and that they last. Also, I wanted a more professional look.




Progress so far:

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #984 on: September 19, 2015, 06:49:42 pm »
Looks like I'm done...didn't fire it up yet because it's late. But I turned it on and so far everything's good! Headlight doesn't turn on yet. Not sure if it only will once the bike is on. Even if I toggle the headlight switch it still won't come on. Will test that tomorrow. I also tried the start button  and there seems to be a delay before it tries to start it. Not sure if that's normal or not. A quick tap does nothing, I have to hold it for like half a second. Could be a feature.


Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #985 on: September 19, 2015, 07:24:03 pm »
Strange, it appears that the new LED headlight from Cognitomoto is bad. I took it out of the bucket and touched the leads to the battery and nothing. Nothing for low beam and nothing for high beam. Bad luck, or did something go wrong and it burned the headlight out instantly...without it ever coming on. The little LED lights on the m-unit are lighting up so it thinks the headlight is on.

EDIT: Ok, so it actually works. The headlight comes with one of those H4 connectors hardwired in. I removed it and used my own terminals like so:


The thing is, the green isn't ground...that's the low beam. The WHITE is the ground. What the hell?

Offline Trad

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #986 on: September 19, 2015, 09:17:19 pm »
Really nice work on the wiring; very tidy. I have one of those LED bulbs from Devin too. It didn't want to work with the 3 port plug?
74 CB550 Build: NOS-GUTTED-OEMplus-HOLDTRUE
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #987 on: September 19, 2015, 09:26:44 pm »

Really nice work on the wiring; very tidy. I have one of those LED bulbs from Devin too. It didn't want to work with the 3 port plug?

Thanks. It very well could have been oriented right in the plug but I didn't want to use it. I felt it was more direct to go from the wires coming in the head light bucket right to the headlight. The way it came it would have the wires coming in to the bucket, then plugged into a plug pigtail then plugged into the headlight plug. I just omitted some connections. I must have missed how the plug was wired. Weird they have the white as ground and the green as low beam though. Maybe mine is just a fluke.

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #988 on: September 19, 2015, 11:36:17 pm »
I have one of those bulbs in my 550.  Very satisfied with the brightness.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline calj737

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #989 on: September 20, 2015, 04:23:53 am »
That bulb has a different wiring scheme (like you discovered). BLU-Hi, WHT-GRND, GRN-LO

Your start button should fire immediately. What handlebar controls are using?
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #990 on: September 20, 2015, 04:37:17 am »

That bulb has a different wiring scheme (like you discovered). BLU-Hi, WHT-GRND, GRN-LO

Your start button should fire immediately. What handlebar controls are using?

That's funny it uses the same colors but they switch them around.

Using the three button m-Switch. I'll test it today again, maybe I need to press more firmly or something.

Offline calj737

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #991 on: September 20, 2015, 04:48:03 am »
Probably its got to do with how you wired it. I seem to recall you jumped the grounds between the buttons internally on the switches. Did you also align the poles of each switch to insure they don't contact the bars and short out? And double-check that the terminal screw of each switch is VERY snug. (Hard to do with those mini little buggers!)

I struggled with that bulb too on a buddy K8 (I'm in the midst of wiring it as we speak). I had called Devin asking him the WTF, you sold me a bad bulb? He giggled and said he recalled a similar issue and swapped wires until it worked. Oddly, when I wired his last 2 bikes, he used an LSL light so I hadn't encountered the issue for him. Sell it, don't use it, I guess  :)
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #992 on: September 20, 2015, 05:46:30 am »
Probably its got to do with how you wired it. I seem to recall you jumped the grounds between the buttons internally on the switches. Did you also align the poles of each switch to insure they don't contact the bars and short out? And double-check that the terminal screw of each switch is VERY snug. (Hard to do with those mini little buggers!)

I struggled with that bulb too on a buddy K8 (I'm in the midst of wiring it as we speak). I had called Devin asking him the WTF, you sold me a bad bulb? He giggled and said he recalled a similar issue and swapped wires until it worked. Oddly, when I wired his last 2 bikes, he used an LSL light so I hadn't encountered the issue for him. Sell it, don't use it, I guess  :)

Funny. And he uses but doesn't sell the LSL, at least yet.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #993 on: September 20, 2015, 05:58:15 am »
I'll open that switch and see what's up. Yes, all screw terminals are aligned as not to short out. I did tighten the  terminal screws, but I'll check that again. These tiny things can't use that much torque!

Funny about the bulb. All's good now though. Threw me for a loop.

Oh, and yes, I did jump the grounds so there's one ground wire coming out...maybe I'll have to run another one.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #994 on: September 20, 2015, 07:16:14 am »
Opened up that switch and all seems well. Resistance from the switch signal wire to the m-unit is .0-.2 ohms and switch ground wire to m-unit ground is the same value. Switch itself (tested in my hand with my multimeter) is .0-.1 ohms. Switch feels fine when pressed. I'm just going to put it back together and test it out again. Maybe my starter solenoid is funky...I did open it up earlier and flip the copper bar upside down as Hondaman mentioned.


Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #995 on: September 20, 2015, 06:28:41 pm »
Finally got out for a ride. It was awesome. I loved setting up the motogadget, too, it was a breeze. The start button still doesn't fire immediately but I think that's supposed to happen. Since the start/kill is the same switch and kill is a quick double press I have to think that there is a slight delay built in before the starter activates just to give yourself time for the double press.

Also, I need to change the positions of the switches. Whoever has an m-unit with  Motogadget switches (or any momentary switches for that matter) what's your setup that works best for you? I think I'm going to change it up to have both left and right turn and the light high/low on the left side and horn and start/kill on the right.

Offline calj737

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #996 on: September 20, 2015, 06:46:55 pm »
I use:
Right side-
Bottom - Turn R
Top - Menu (for MotoG gauge)
Front - Start

Left side-
Bottom - Turn L
Top - Hi/Lo
Front - Horn

I have my indicators to auto cancel after 10s
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #997 on: September 21, 2015, 05:03:22 am »
Thanks Cal. I think I must have hands of a baby...or Frodo Baggins. While riding I just can't comfortably reach the switches on the right bar.

In more detail:
Right side:
Top-start/kill
Bottom-horn

Left side:
Top-left turn
Bottom-right turn
Front-light high/low

I'm also using the auto cancel after 10 seconds but I need to get used to it. I find myself looking down to make sure it's off, ha.

Offline calj737

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #998 on: September 21, 2015, 05:13:40 am »
Obviously, you can configure their operation however suits you, but I find the Turn R/L very intuitive when oriented to either side. I became very reliant upon this orientation after riding BMW bikes for decades. You do know also that a second press of the indicator will cancel it manually?

Frodo Baggins has an M designation on his license? Sheesh! That explains those CT drivers  >:(
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Patina Hyena - Dave's '78 CB550K Cafe Build Thread
« Reply #999 on: September 21, 2015, 05:25:59 am »

Obviously, you can configure their operation however suits you, but I find the Turn R/L very intuitive when oriented to either side. I became very reliant upon this orientation after riding BMW bikes for decades. You do know also that a second press of the indicator will cancel it manually?

Frodo Baggins has an M designation on his license? Sheesh! That explains those CT drivers  >:(

Must have gotten the M after destroying the ring. Would have made his journey much quicker (<— nerd talk)

It is very intuitive and I wanted that setup, but even after one short ride I could tell it wouldn't work just because I can't comfortably reach it. And yup, I actually might not use the auto cancel and just tap again to shut them off. We'll see. I'm keeping a length of wire under my seat to use to configure it while out and about.

I still am really thinking about trying to find a way to hack this thing and upload my own settings. If I do, I'll keep it to myself and never tell you guys ;).