Topic: Patina Hyena - 550/650 674cc Hybrid Cafe Build

[DaveBarbier]

Good old oven cleaner will remove that gross blue anodizing on the fork tubes.  I just powder coated over the brakes lol.

Ah yes, maybe I'll try that. Not sure if I hate the blue or am ok with it, haha.

[DaveBarbier]

Best to leave the anodizing be, Dave. It forms a very protective surface finish.

True true, although my aluminum spacers I machined and the hub itself don't have any corrosion protection. But it's such a small amount of blue I'm not really worried about it. I'll just have to ride with no helmet to show off my baby blue Scandinavian eyes so there's some sort of color coordination. JW would be proud.

[Stev-o]

Looking good, Dave.

[DaveBarbier]

Thanks Stev-o

Hopefully I'll be able to sneak out during the winter for a couple test rides so I can make sure all's good for Spring.

[DaveBarbier]

I know I’m late, but I’m going to be getting my bike assembled for the spring. (Wheel alignment issues - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=170235.0) All should be good but I am sure I’m going to be having the same issue with the, what seems to be, over heating of the ignition system and shutting the bike down and then having it cool off and start right back up and perform perfectly.

It could be one or both coils with my C5 system. Does anyone have a C5 ignition that I could send my coils to and then test on a hot day for over a 2 hour ride and see what they come up with? Preferably someone in the south where it’s hot already.

I still have yet to do the test of bringing a spark plug with me and seeing if all or some of the cylinders drop out. I tried that late summer/early fall and it wasn’t that hot out so the issue never arose. Would like to get this figured out before the heat comes.

Thoughts?

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I know I’m late, but I’m going to be getting my bike assembled for the spring. (Wheel alignment issues - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=170235.0) All should be good but I am sure I’m going to be having the same issue with the, what seems to be, over heating of the ignition system and shutting the bike down and then having it cool off and start right back up and perform perfectly.

It could be one or both coils with my C5 system. Does anyone have a C5 ignition that I could send my coils to and then test on a hot day for over a 2 hour ride and see what they come up with? Preferably someone in the south where it’s hot already.

I still have yet to do the test of bringing a spark plug with me and seeing if all or some of the cylinders drop out. I tried that late summer/early fall and it wasn’t that hot out so the issue never arose. Would like to get this figured out before the heat comes.

Thoughts?

PM Camrector. He’s in the process of shaking down and putting some longer rides in on his 674 bike.

[DaveBarbier]

I know I’m late, but I’m going to be getting my bike assembled for the spring. (Wheel alignment issues - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=170235.0) All should be good but I am sure I’m going to be having the same issue with the, what seems to be, over heating of the ignition system and shutting the bike down and then having it cool off and start right back up and perform perfectly.

It could be one or both coils with my C5 system. Does anyone have a C5 ignition that I could send my coils to and then test on a hot day for over a 2 hour ride and see what they come up with? Preferably someone in the south where it’s hot already.

I still have yet to do the test of bringing a spark plug with me and seeing if all or some of the cylinders drop out. I tried that late summer/early fall and it wasn’t that hot out so the issue never arose. Would like to get this figured out before the heat comes.

Thoughts?

PM Camrector. He’s in the process of shaking down and putting some longer rides in on his 674 bike.

Yeah, thought about Cam, but he’s north of me and won’t see heat until I will. Could be an option later in the summer though.

[Camrector]

What temps were you having this problem in Dave?

[DaveBarbier]

What temps were you having this problem in Dave?

I’d say about 88° and up.

[DaveBarbier]

What temps were you having this problem in Dave?

I’d say about 88° and up.

Scratch that, probably more like low 90’s.

[sinister902]

Maybe us c5 users should be mounting the coils under the seat to keep it away from the engine......

[DaveBarbier]

Maybe us c5 users should be mounting the coils under the seat to keep it away from the engine......

Not a terrible idea. The 650 motor is taller than the 550, so that brings the heat even closer. Maybe I’ll make up an aluminum heat shield or something.

Routing the plug wires along the main wiring harness probably isn’t a good idea though. It mentions the possible interference in the C5 manual. Maybe on the front of the frame where the horn is?

[RAFster122s]

Would some wire braid slipped over the wires help shield them?  Works well for other electronics.  Ground the braid to frame at each end. Russell makes it for auto use I believe. Often seen cosmetic dress up kits but not sure if they are real braid or not. - David

[DaveBarbier]

Would some wire braid slipped over the wires help shield them?  Works well for other electronics.  Ground the braid to frame at each end. Russell makes it for auto use I believe. Often seen cosmetic dress up kits but not sure if they are real braid or not. - David

Hmm, I don’t know. That may work. I’m not an electrical engineer though. I’m thinking putting the coils right in front of the frame under the steering neck where the horn is/was. Maybe relocating the horn under the tank. Might try that first because I have no space in the back for the coils anyway. Might not even be the coils over heating.

[DaveBarbier]

Anyone know what coils are used for the C5 ignition? I am sure he uses off the shelf coils and doesn’t have custom coils made.

Just curious if other coils can be used which are smaller or have the plug wire outputs aiming the same direction.

Would be awesome if someone recognized these as Forester coils or Sonata coils or something.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Anyone know what coils are used for the C5 ignition? I am sure he uses off the shelf coils and doesn’t have custom coils made.

Just curious if other coils can be used which are smaller or have the plug wire outputs aiming the same direction.

Would be awesome if someone recognized these as Forester coils or Sonata coils or something.

Good question.  All I know is that they are the hotter 3 ohm coils but because of the short duration of the charge/discharge cycle, they are not supposed to overly tax the 550 electrical system.

[RAFster122s]

Finding a spot on the cb500 is tough, if moving slowly the heat off the motor and exhaust is going to be hot at the front of the motor and cook anything above it if left in that spot with no moving air.  The stock location is ideal for short plug wires.

The CX500 employed a thick closed cell foam pad below the tank on later versions. It helped with heat warming the fuel too much on a design with the twisted twin having a lot of heat off the cylinders and block.  Finding that you could shield your coils.  It tucked into tabs on the tank bottom and had an adhesive strip.

[DaveBarbier]

Finding a spot on the cb500 is tough, if moving slowly the heat off the motor and exhaust is going to be hot at the front of the motor and cook anything above it if left in that spot with no moving air.  The stock location is ideal for short plug wires.

The CX500 employed a thick closed cell foam pad below the tank on later versions. It helped with heat warming the fuel too much on a design with the twisted twin having a lot of heat off the cylinders and block.  Finding that you could shield your coils.  It tucked into tabs on the tank bottom and had an adhesive strip.

I’ve been lookin up insulating materials, haha. Would be kind of cool to have a gold plated shield to reflect the radiant heat. Maybe relocating them would be better though.

[RAFster122s]

Peltier junctions as heat sinks to your coils...cold side to the coil of course...

If heat is a problem for the coils, then there is likely an issue with those coils.  None of the air cooled Hondas liked sitting in idle traffic.  Even had a C70 that used oil and the heat really didn't like that as oil is the lifeblood of an air cooled motor...

David

[DaveBarbier]

Peltier junctions as heat sinks to your coils...cold side to the coil of course...

If heat is a problem for the coils, then there is likely an issue with those coils.  None of the air cooled Hondas liked sitting in idle traffic.  Even had a C70 that used oil and the heat really didn't like that as oil is the lifeblood of an air cooled motor...

David

Yes, it could be that one is bad and that’s giving me my problems. The location and heat could be fine but one is more sensitive. I need to test more when the problem happens.

[RAFster122s]

Can of cold spray could be used to see if cooling the coil would restore it to proper operation. An oscilloscope could measure the output of the coil if you had the proper pickups and you could see if the operation drops off or out when it starts getting hot.  Another thing that could fail is the pickups on ignition that time the coils firing.  Could you send it all back to the maker to test for you.  Would cost you postage both ways if ok, one way if it is damaged they would likely be sending you replaced components back.   Have you tugged on any crimps you made to ensure they are solid? Have seen rare instance where a bad connection could be shown to happen in a temperature extreme.  Of course, that was an intermittent issue...

[sinister902]

Could make up some cool looking cooling ducts to direct air from behind the headlight down at the coils/top of the motor

could also get crazy making finned rocker covers that would be super fancy yet also wick heat away from the top of the motor.

can you tell I like making complicated solutions to a fairly simple problem? LOL

phenolic plastic is cheap and a killer insulator, could be used to make a shim between the mount and the coils themselves.....

but again all of this is pretty hypothetical if we don't find a way to indeed confirm its a heat issue.

[RAFster122s]

But, this is presuming the issue is in the coils and not the pulsers/pickups..put coils in phenolic tubes with fans sucking air through past the coils.  If you design the tube with Bernoulli's law in mind you can accelerate the air past the coils for enhanced cooling.

[DaveBarbier]

Could make up some cool looking cooling ducts to direct air from behind the headlight down at the coils/top of the motor

could also get crazy making finned rocker covers that would be super fancy yet also wick heat away from the top of the motor.

can you tell I like making complicated solutions to a fairly simple problem? LOL

phenolic plastic is cheap and a killer insulator, could be used to make a shim between the mount and the coils themselves.....

but again all of this is pretty hypothetical if we don't find a way to indeed confirm its a heat issue.

Complicated is fun, haha. Nick, what’s the status of your bike? I don’t recall you being finished and riding around. Are you using the C5 as well?

[sinister902]

I do have the c5 on the shelf for mine. Haven't had the time to get into engine assembly....let alone build the frame it's going in. I'm assembling another 674cc CB650 engine though for a guy overseas, using a JMR stage 2.5 head and ninja 600 carbs.

I dunno when I'll ever get to my own