Topic: question about stuck starter on a bike im considering buying

[NevurMind85]

ok first let me say hi as being new. ok im looking at a few bikes, on my list at the top is a 82 cb650 that needs nothing for $600 other than the left turnsignal doesnt blink, it lights up just doesnt blink. but alot closer to me is a 78 cb750k for $500 that the guy says the motor is good but thinks the starter is in a bind as he cant start it nor kickstart it. i havent seen any info on what it could be or how to fix it. i plan to go look at it tomorrow and see if i can remove the elec starter and kick it over or am i at a lost cause and just move onto the cb650? id like to buy the 750 as its a bit cheaper and there are more parts for it (as well as having a kickstart) but the 650 is in great shape and comes with a windjammer i can sell.

any ideas on the stuck starter? i can post the cl ad if needed. he said it died while running so im somewhat inclined to think it had a loss of oil pressure and toasted the motor.

[Bodi]

Sounds like it's seized: you can safely assume anything a seller tells you is a lie unless it's truly awful ("it was underwater in seawater").
Maybe the pistons are just rusted tight after poor storage, it might be seized by overheating or lack of oil - possibly just pistons, possibly spun/welded bearings. Worth a look though, I think. You can see in the outer cylinders through the plug holes, and see some of the valvegear through the adjuster holes. Pulling the drain plug will give you a sample of the engine oil - there's no easy way to get the last of the sump oil out with the engine not running even if you drain and fill the oil tank. If it's black tar I would be very worried about the engine bearings.

[NevurMind85]

cool ill take a look at all that and see what happens. would it be worth my time to try to buy it and get it unstuck if everything looks good as opposed to buying the 650? that brings up another question, are parts hard to get for the 650 as opposed to the 750 or will the 650 just be a good buy all together?

[ekpent]

Unless you have better luck than most don't plan on a slew of buyers lining up for the windjammer and factor in what parts like headlight etc you will need to buy when you remove it. As for the 750, if its your first bike or you want to be on the road soon I would look for a better candidate, at least something that turns over 

[trueblue]

I would personally go for the 650, but I like the 650's

[NevurMind85]

I'm actually used to the weight of riding my dads 04 sportster 1200xl so I figure the weight of my first personal bike wouldn't matter much if its less than the sportster. Now then I also have a 81 kz440 near my house forsake for a pretty good price just needs a battery, the guy is just tired of looking at it doing nothing in his shed. Would it be a better buy than the cb650?

[Vinhead1957]

You are in the wrong crowd to ask Kawi vs CB

[NevurMind85]

Yea kind of a dumb question but I figure someone may know what the advantages are of either bike.  My delima is the cb650 is about an hour away for $600 and the kz440 is 2miles from my house listed for $500. The cb the owner and I agreeded on $600 and I haven't tried to agree to a price on the kz. The 650 is a 650 and he says it starts and runs as it sets. The kz is a twin with roughly 30less HP and needs a battery and hasn't been started for 2 years and the carbs need rejected but he has the bigger jets. Both bikes are complete and I'd like to make a bobber or brat out of whatever I get. (Preferably a bobber). Most of the reason I ask about the kz is its a twin its close to the house and I may be able to get him to come down to 300 or 400$. Should I just ignore the kz and go grab the 650 while I can?

A guy I work with is a big Honda cb fan but he didn't steer me away from the kz. I'd like the extra power from the cb but it will take my entire budget to buy it.

[fmctm1sw]

One thing I've learned is that a seller's assessment is often optimistic and, at times, downright deceitful.  If you're limited in budget and/or experience, I'd go with whatever runs.

[NevurMind85]

Ok cool. Another small reason I asked here was hoping you guys would give me the big ups of the 650 compared to the kz, more or less asking you guys to convince me to get the 650. Granted I'm leaning that way anyways. Big downer for me is no kick start but eh no biggie. Won't die without it.

[Don R]

A kick start is overrated. The 650 is the culmination of a lot of honda development. I'm a 750 guy but unless you're a decent mechanic avoid the broken kicker, you have to split the cases to fix it.

[Don R]

Buy the KZ for your girlfriend. L0L!

[NevurMind85]

So basically buy the 650?

[ekpent]

Not to be rude but right now you are floundering between a big Honda 4 750 that sounds like a junker, a more possibly refined 650 and a little Kwacker twin 400. Best to just be patient and think it over as to what will make you happy in the long run and the dollars  you will have to spend to create your dream. Everyday is a whole new batch of crap-ERR I mean possibilities that come out on the web. Be patient, think it over as to what direction you want to go and then refine your search for that machine. Plenty out there to choose, especially if you can travel a wee bit.

[NevurMind85]

I agree. The more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards the 650. The fact that the kz has sat for 2 years kind of scares me away.

[Johnie]

Agree with the guys...don't be in such a hurry or it will cost you! Take your time and like Don said...get the KZ for your girlfriend You will not be happy with the twin once you ride a Honda 4. No comparison. Stay away from the 78...sounds like the motor is froze...not good. Resale the 750 will be a better buy and the reliability of the 750, well, look at the 750's the guys have here. Basic maintenance and they start right up after sitting for 20+ years. Your biggest mistake is to rush into something. Run your potential buys past the guys and they will not steer your wrong. Post a wanted ad in on this board...might find something right here. Good luck...

[ekpent]

I agree. The more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards the 650. The fact that the kz has sat for 2 years kind of scares me away.

The KZ400 would make for a fun little bar hopper bobber type bike but not a great cruiser and we would lose a new member. Quickly refresh us again as to your goal, is it a custom type of ride you want to make your own or a nice ride-able  stocker.

[trueblue]

The only real issue the 650's have that is unique to the 650's in the sohc4 family, is the charge rotor.  They have a habit of shorting out after 30 some odd years spinning round at high revs.  When they short they tend to take out the reg/rec unit as well.  When you go to look at it, take a volt meter and make sure it is charging.  It can be expensive to fix, but isn't a huge issue.  Other than that, they are pretty much bullet proof.  Mine sat from ~'84 till 2010, I put fresh fuel in it and a fresh battery then hit the starter and away it went.  Took a little coaxing to make it run, but it ran.  It needed a few things to run reliably, the worst of which was one of the worst PO #$%* ups I have ever seen. 

[Restoration Fan]

Regarding the 750, kick starting a bike has nothing to do with the starter.  If it won't turn over with the starter or with the kick starter, then the engine is possibly seized.  Now, it could be a situation where something in the starter loop is bad (solenoid, battery, starter motor, ignition coils).  And at the same time, something is wrong with the kick starter (reductor gear, starter clutch or starter spring). 

Either way, you're going to have to crack open the engine casing to fix the problem.  If you don't have the experience to do it, it can still be done.  There are a gazillion YouTube videos that will explain the process.  But before you jump on something like that, I would highly recommend having a close friend or family member nearby who knows what they're doing.  Because you are inevitably going to find some things in that engine when you crack it open that are going to cause you to need to ask questions of someone.

Of course, this forum is pretty awesome at handling those kinds of questions as well.

[NevurMind85]

At this point I think I'll forget about the stuck 750. I'll keep an eye out for others.

As for what I'd like, I'd like to get one and Bob it. Probably won't cut it just extend the swing arm or get a k7+ swing arm and put in solid struts and lower the front. I really only care for a solo seat, my wife doesn't care to get on the back of one. I'd like to be able to ride to work and I have to get on i64 to do that going up a pretty decent hill. ( I live in southern Indiana across from Louisville ky so anyone should know from around here how that hill is). Not sure the kz could pull it at a decent speed. I'm drawn towards the cb's anyway. I also like that the 550 and 750 are bullet proof and cheap to fix. Wasn't sure how cheap the 650s are to fix.

[trueblue]

The only part on the 650s I have come across as being expensive IMO is the charging system.

[Stev-o]

Here's one to consider....


http://tippecanoe.craigslist.org/mcy/4647336832.html

[NevurMind85]

Unfortunately I only have $600 to play with at the moment. I've seen a few come and go for around that price.

[John Eberly]

Lemme hol' that six hundy for ya' - it will do you more good than buying an ol' beat-up scoot.

Seriously - buying the bike just gets you the privilege of buying battery, tires, gas and oil and maybe killing yourself if you cheap out on safety stuff.

Be realistic about what it really takes or you'll just end up with torn apart junk -

[Don R]

Any old bike that needs tires, brakes, battery, carbs cleaned, filters, serviced etc will set you back a thousand.
 John is correct be realistic and you'll be happier in the long run. .

[NevurMind85]

Went and looked at the 82 cb650 and rode it up and down the street. I liked the seat to handle bars position but felt very cramped to the foot controls. I'm just about 6'1" tall with a 32" inseam. Anyone else feel cramped or is it just me.

[trueblue]

Just you I think mate.  I'm slightly taller than you, I have no issues with my 650Z, which has rearsets from factory, and is a hell of a lot more cramped than my 82 650SC.  The nighthawk feel like I'm sitting on a comfy lounge chair when I'm on it, whereas the Z has a more sporty feel, without being uncomfortably so.

[dave500]

Went and looked at the 82 cb650 and rode it up and down the street. I liked the seat to handle bars position but felt very cramped to the foot controls. I'm just about 6'1" tall with a 32" inseam. Anyone else feel cramped or is it just me.

?you stated you want to bob or brat or some#$%* so what the #$%* does it matter how it feels?your only gonna make it worse!

[harisuluv]

1.  Stop believing what sellers tell you. 

2.  When I get a phone call and someone wants to start negotiating a price I usually know they aren't for real or most likely won't even show up.  Because what kind of person negotiates the price without even seeing it.  Usually these people are dreamers or tire kickers.  To physically pick up the bike you need to go to it anyways.  It really logically doesn't make sense.  No offense but when I hear that I just say sorry I don't negotiate over the phone.  They never come to see it.  You can probably understand if you feel about the seller's position.  You called and negotiated a price, came by, test drove it, then left without the bike.  I don't mean to be rude at all but this is kind of just rude.

3.  The KZ conveniently doesn't run.  This could be for any reason.  The seller has claimed this is because of a dead battery.  To you this is simply a "non runner" and you may or may not be able to diagnose in person.  Stop believing what sellers tell you.

4.  The person who said to not hold your breath on selling the fairing is very correct.  It's not really worth anything, and it's pretty much impossible to ship cost effectively.

5.  Stop believing what sellers tell  you.  You acknowledge seller has said X.  Your assessment of the bike is completely independent of what he said.  If you can easily identify that X is untrue then you have potentially identified them as deceitful. 

6.  The 650 seems like a runner.  It's not a very popular bike and they don't really have the value of the other four cylinders, but you're going to chop it up anyways, so it doesn't matter.

7.  P.S.  I guarantee you that turn signal isn't the only thing that will need servicing.  Start by checking the date on the tires.

[calj737]

And one more thing, stop believing what sellers tell you!

The moral of Harisuluv's advice is that after enough time and experiences with these 40 year old bikes, most know of all the unannounced problems, the service neglected issues, the ham-fisted PO screw ups, the hidden treasures, and the aged petrified components. Unless a bike is in "restored" or "renovated" condition, expect it to require 2-3x the purchase price for it to be safe, reliable, and enjoyable.

If you have limited experience with bikes, then plan on months of troubleshooting and tinkering. If you are planning to chop/cut/rebuild it, then buy a bike in any condition you feel comfortable with. If these bikes are uncomfortable to you, then you should buy a different brand of bike.

Oh, and stop believing what sellers tell you....