Author Topic: Got the 550 running, now some questions  (Read 2002 times)

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Offline tfrasca

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Got the 550 running, now some questions
« on: September 11, 2014, 12:24:52 PM »
I've spent the last couple weeks cleaning years of oil residue off my new to me ('76) 550 K. Figured it'd be easier to see where the leak(s) are coming from with a clean motor. I used a bunch of terrible chemicals to do this, so I expected a fair amount of burn-off and smoke once the motor heated up. What I find strange, though, is that the smoke just keeps coming, even after ~10 minutes of run time. And then when I shut it down, the smoke almost instantly stops.

Could this be exhaust leaking directly out of the cylinders somehow? All my header pipes are tight and I thought I was pretty careful putting the spacers back on in their original orientation. Does the outside temp of the motor change so quickly after being shut off that it would stop burning the residue? Seems unlikely.

The second immediate issue is that I have a clear oil leak on the drive side of my valve cover gasket, and another from one of the tappet covers on the non-drive side. Is it possible to remove the valve cover with the top cover still attached? The PO COMPLETELY stripped one of the screws holding the top cover on, and I'm hoping and praying that the screw doesn't go all the way into the head. Wishful thinking?

I also have another problem in that cylinder 2 is having a tough time firing. Last night the pipe was cold after a few minutes, so this morning I snipped a centimeter off the plug lead and now the pipe from cylinder 2 will heat up, but not as much as the others. Weak spark, perhaps? Seems like if combustion happens at all, the pipe would heat up. Unless it's only happening every once in a while. Any wisdom is appreciated here -- this is my first bike!

Thanks so much,

TF

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2014, 12:33:41 PM »
Oh yeah, the 4 into 2 side exit Harley-looking exhaust that someone put on my bike is too loud for me. Can anyone comment on how loud/quiet a stock 550F 4 into 1 is? I don't need speed or performance, just quiet and somewhat reliable.

Thanks again.


Offline flybox1

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2014, 12:34:27 PM »
where is the smoke coming from?  exhaust?is it white (water vapor) that dissapears, or is it blue?
if its coming from the case, could it be oil?
do you have your headers wrapped?  if so, moisture takes a while to burn off.....but its kinda fun doing it around the neighborhood after a wash  ;D

spark plug caps can go bad.  bad cap=bad spark. 
take each of yours off, and check with an ohm-meter.  one lead in each end.  they might be marked, too   
5,000 or 10,000 ohms.  they should meter out about the same. 

when was the last 3000 mi maintenance done?
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2014, 12:45:05 PM »
Smoke appears to be coming from the area of the exhaust ports, but kind of looks like it may be also originating in/around the cooling fins of the jugs. It's a whitish grey smoke and doesn't smell strongly of oil or gas. Just a general "hot poison on metal" odor...

Headers are not wrapped.

I didn't think to check the resistance of the caps. I will do that ASAP. Also, I'll pull the plugs later to see if that tells me anything. Wet, white, dark, etc.

The bike sat for 2 years and this is the second time I've seen it run since I bought it. I doubt a service was done before it was put away. I'll definitely do all that, just wanted to see it run for a bit. I figure I can do all of that during the valve cover gasket replacement, assuming I can get the stripped screw out or can avoid taking it out and still remove the gasket.

Thanks for the feedback!

TF

Offline flatlander

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2014, 01:49:44 PM »
what did you disassemble before you started running it and noticed the smoke?
are your exhaust gaskets good still?

as for the stock 4-1 exhaust: i don't think there are many that are more quiet. it's almost too quiet!
depends on what you mean by reliable... they do rust if condensation is allowed to accumulate but no problem if you don't ride for less than 30mins or so.

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2014, 02:08:28 PM »
I didn't disassemble much before getting it running. The valve cover and head haven't been touched since I bought it. I removed the carbs and headers, and cleaned the outside of the entire motor with some heavy degreaser, brass brush, and water.

By exhaust gasket, do you mean the semi-circular metal spacers that go between the header pipe and head? There are two per pipe, and they have a shoulder on one end that goes against the ring that holds the pipes on. Is there another gasket I'm missing or not seeing?

As far as exhaust goes, quiet is fine with me. I'm not worried about rust, as I tend to take good care of my vehicles and I'll polish her up really nicely. I mainly just meant I want a nice, reliable bike when all's said and done.


Offline flybox1

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 02:23:36 PM »
By exhaust gasket, do you mean the semi-circular metal spacers that go between the header pipe and head? There are two per pipe, and they have a shoulder on one end that goes against the ring that holds the pipes on. Is there another gasket I'm missing or not seeing?
between ^this and the head, there are copper crush washers that seal the header to the head. 
see this...
http://4into1.com/ne-brand-exhaust-gasket-honda-cb500-cb550/
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

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Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2014, 02:33:34 PM »
Oh, I see. I didn't noticed those when I had the header off, but I'm sure they're in there. I'll check their condition.

Offline flybox1

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2014, 02:36:37 PM »
they are a 'one time use' item
once crushed, they'll not seal as well as a new set.
you'll need to pick the old ones out before installing a new set
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 03:14:13 PM »
Got it, I'll order some new crush washers.

And #$%*, I hope I didn't over heat it. I wasn't even thinking about the whole air-cooled thing. Damn. Thanks for pointing out my stupidity on that one. At least I didn't try to cool it off with a bucket of ice water...   :-[

And yes, the crankcase breather is hooked up to the air box (which is intact and has a brand new UNI drop in filter in it), so it should be evacuating pressure properly.



Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2014, 04:11:59 PM »
What color would my plugs be if I'm lean? White if lean, black if rich?

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2014, 04:27:49 PM »
Great, I'll check tomorrow AM. Thanks for all the input.


Offline TwoTired

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 04:29:38 PM »
Oh yeah, the 4 into 2 side exit Harley-looking exhaust that someone put on my bike is too loud for me. Can anyone comment on how loud/quiet a stock 550F 4 into 1 is? I don't need speed or performance, just quiet and somewhat reliable.

Thanks again.

The stock F muffler is almost certainly quieter than what you have.  Much more of a purr.  If you can locate a stock F system, I expect you will be much happier.  Unfortunately, there isn't ANY aftermarket system as quiet as the stock F system (or the 77-78 K model 4-4 system, for that matter).

However, be sure you actually have an F model rather than a K model.  The VIN number on the headstock will have an F after the 550.  If not, it is a K model, and you need frame features only found on the F model to easily accept the F model exhaust system.

Motorcycle noise regulation didn't begin to take effect until after 1978.  So, most of the rowdies think that open pipes are perfectly fine, which it is...for race tracks.  But stupid, annoying, downright belligerent, and anti-social in residential areas, and is almost certainly why government regulations were created do deal with such miscreants.

There are different levels of regulation, federal, state, and local ordinances, with varying degrees of restriction.  Active enforcement is yet another matter.

I applaud your desire for a less obtrusive bike, as this helps the entire motorcyle community.  And, you will more agreeably be able to operate in the RPM ranges needed (higher) with proper noise suppression.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 04:36:34 PM »
I've always hated how obnoxious some Harley's and other twins can be, and I'll be damned if I'm going to make my nice little SOHC 4 just as annoying.

Thanks for mentioning the frame requirements for mounting an F exhaust. I think I have a K model...  Is there something in the serial number that would tell me for sure? This thing has all sorts of different parts and side covers on it, so I'm not really sure.


Offline TwoTired

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2014, 05:45:21 PM »
I have parts of the book  Honda motorcycle Identification Guide.

Not sure which year your bike is.  But, here is and excerpt of the early K models.  Chaeck your VIN with these.   Or, look around in the SOHC4 site for VIN and model year listing.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2014, 09:27:11 PM »
Dang. Looks like it's a K model, based on the serial number. I was really hoping to find a used F exhaust and bolt it right on. As far as exhausts go, how loud are the MAC 4 into 1?

Thanks,

TF

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2014, 12:27:54 AM »
I had a Mac 4 to 1 on a Cb550.   Came to me that way.  I thought it was too loud, and forced me to use higher gears in residential areas.  The Cb550 has no grunt at low RPM.   I still thought it was too loud as rider.  Before I sold the bike, I loaned the bike to another and rode along with him.  It wasn't nearly as irritating from 100 Ft away.  I admit, when I suspended consideration for others, it had an infectious sound that made me want to make the tach needle go as as high as it could.  But for any distance driving, I'd want ear plugs to avoid sound fatigue.

As I said, I don't think any aftermarket exhaust is quiet.  Most replace or alter stock so it will make more noise, hoping for that craved attention.  So, the suppliers acquiesce to such racer wannabe demands.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline dave500

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2014, 01:09:22 AM »
I think if the pipe is swapped out for more noise its a personal thing,not like look at me im making a racing motorcycle sound?there are retards though,dont confuse Honda riders with Harley ones please loyd,in the day the clumbsy but attractive though heavy,quiet and efficient exhausts got junked for 4-1 systems in the hope for engine performance and weight loss gains,the weight loss being effective on any brand,the performance upgrade being so-so and the sound note or noise also being questionable,and again a matter of personal choice or perhaps what your mates think?no one liked the looks of this one,i liked the sound,and good performance,not loud but that "tuned"sound,a car straight through resonator,because it looks #$%* that's what most people thought it sounded like!i ran that for a couple of years,i made a reducer in the outlet also which took the drone out of it at cruise,when riding these have a fair amount of induction noise aswell only audible to the rider mostly.
engine revving
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 01:19:01 AM by dave500 »

Offline Tews19

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2014, 04:12:57 AM »
The bike sounds good Dave! In the video I hear squeeking/sqweeling. Were there spider monkeys mating in the trees? 
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Offline dave500

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2014, 04:28:37 AM »
carrawongs or how ever you spell those birds?theyll swoop down and pluck your eyes out!

Offline Tews19

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2014, 04:31:01 AM »
Sounds like they could be fun at a bbq with a few in a drunkin stupor. 
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1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2014, 08:15:35 AM »
Oh, I'm not confusing SOHC riders for Harley riders, trust me. And I've had my share of cars that may have been slightly too loud. But for me, personally, a loud pipe is not what I'm after on this bike (my first bike).

I figured most 4-1 pipes would be pretty loud, but it would be cool to just find a header and experiment with different cans. My buddy had a 550 with 4-1 header and a newer FMF can, and I remember it sounding pretty tame until he opened it up.

Anyone know where to find a good 4-1 header with a commonly sized exit pipe?

Thanks for the video, the bike looks and sounds great!

TF

Offline Tews19

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2014, 08:17:30 AM »
I have one. It's for sale too. Pm me and I can send pics. Easier to text them.
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2014, 10:49:11 AM »
there are retards though,dont confuse Honda riders with Harley ones please loyd,

I live in an area with 8,000,000 other people, and good weather for year round riding.  So, while our percentage of retards is probably like everywhere else, one percent is still a lot more retards too endure than a lot of places, with exceptions of course.  There probably are more loud Harleys than other bikes as it is part of the Harley culture to appear bad ass.  But, I don't really feel it's a Honda/Harley rider thing.  And, there are plenty of posts in this forum about making their bike loud and "attention getting" to demonstrate that.  As the bike population numbers that must adhere to sound laws get newer and enforcement becomes more common, it IS less of problem, unless you live near popular roadways.  I live two blocks from an active street leading to a quarry, and the trucks roll by daily and frequently.  This road is on a slight incline. The same road gives access to back roads in the hills with some excellent bike ride features.  By far, the noisier vehicles on this road are NOT the big trucks hauling stone.  But then, the trucks don't race/wail by at all hours, either.

I must say, I am noticing more Harleys on the freeway with the stock and pretty reasonable sounding exhaust.  I can still hear the radio in my car if the windows are rolled up.  ;D
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline dave500

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2014, 01:42:58 PM »
that oval muffler ended up going on another bike,i got hold of an open megaphone and made up a straight through baffle for it,i used a water pump pulley with the vee belt ring cut off as the end cap it was a fluke fit,then bought perforated tube,its held in with a bed spring and wrapped in glass wool.



I reduced the outlet down to less than the internal tube,sounds nice.

Offline dave500

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2014, 02:18:55 PM »
ha thanks mate,havent done one for a while all the "projects"are too dear now,if I see something at the right price ill get it?
heres a pair of old ones I did using comedy.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=81033.0;nowap

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=114406.0;nowap

Offline flybox1

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2014, 02:23:50 PM »
ha thanks mate,havent done one for a while all the "projects"are too dear now,if I see something at the right price ill get it?
heres a pair of old ones I did using comedy.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=81033.0;nowap

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=114406.0;nowap
just wait till you see him kickstart a bike in board shorts and rubber sandals  ;D
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline dave500

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2014, 10:52:27 PM »
probably a few missing or deleted photos by now?i don't think that muffler will become a trend either?they work well though.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 10:54:34 PM by dave500 »

Offline vonvendetta

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Re: Got the 550 running, now some questions
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2014, 05:23:39 AM »
By exhaust gasket, do you mean the semi-circular metal spacers that go between the header pipe and head? There are two per pipe, and they have a shoulder on one end that goes against the ring that holds the pipes on. Is there another gasket I'm missing or not seeing?
between ^this and the head, there are copper crush washers that seal the header to the head. 
see this...
http://4into1.com/ne-brand-exhaust-gasket-honda-cb500-cb550/
Well dang it. I didn't even know these existed. Might explain why it's so loud by the header.