Topic: Will mixing vinegar & baking soda clean these rusty pieces ?

[grcamna2]

Fiddy, when you say "it turned black",did it turn the metal black ? or just the oil coating ? it sounds like it worked well for you

[faux fiddy]

It noticeably darkened like many things do with rust,  Like the Krud Kutter ( I did see it on the shelf within the last week.) The Linseed oil is  still sticking pretty good. I should try to post a pic.

I'm not going to get too aggressive about the rust  on the old trailor, so I probably  paint over it, and blast what rusts off first for the nest coat..

[Terry in Australia]

I use phosphoric acid for rust removal, I know that electrolysis is great too, but it's slow and doesn't work well on removing other stuff like burned on carbon etc, and of course it produces an explosive hydrogen gas, so should only be used outside.

I did a set of exhaust collars with phosphoric acid a few weeks ago, they were in a horrible state with lots of burned on carbon, the bolts were rusted in place, and I couldn't get a wire wheel deep enough into the fins to remove the stuff manually.

If I had a better set I wouldn't have even considered these ones, but I didn't, and new ones were out of my customer's price range. So I soaked them in Phosphoric acid overnight, and they came out looking like new, and I was able to back all the bolts out without any breaking.

Phosphoric acid eats zinc coatings, so all the OEM Honda bolts were replaced with new ones, even though they looked like new, they would have rusted as soon as they got wet.

I really couldn't be bothered messing around with vinegar, electrolysis or anything else, Phosphoric acid is the best rust remover I've ever used, and over here I can buy 5 litres of undiluted PA for 30 bucks, which when diluted at up to 1:6 with tap water is enough to completely clean the rusty-est gas tank overnight.

It won't affect chrome either, in fact it's a component of most chrome polishes, and it's mild enough that it's also a component in most cola drinks and even toothpaste. Like any acid, use a bit of common sense and you'll be happy with the result. Cheers, Terry.

[grcamna2]

I'll look around for who sells some of that phosphoric acid,thanks Terry

[Terry in Australia]

No worries mate, you should be able to find some at a farm supply or hardware store in New Salem.

[flatlander]

It won't affect chrome either, in fact it's a component of most chrome polishes, and it's mild enough that it's also a component in most cola drinks and even toothpaste.

that explains why cola works as a mild rust remover.
i knew that it worked, i've used it but never knew the chemical reason!

[Terry in Australia]

That's it mate, when I was a young Army recruit in the 1970's the standard Aussie assault rifle was the SLR, the Australian built version of the 7.62mm FN assault rifle that several armies around the world were then using.

SLR just stood for "Self Loading Rifle", and used a gas system to re-cock the rifle after each trigger pull. Basically, the gases caused by the burning propellant pushed the projectile out of the barrel, and some of this gas was diverted into a gas cylinder above the barrel that pushed a spring loaded piston back, forcing the "Breech Block" back as well, and recocked the rifle.

After a day on the rifle range, these things got pretty cruddy with carbon build up, a result of the propellant residue sticking to everything it came into contact with. The hardest thing to clean was the gas plug. Our instructors were all hard asses and they told us not to soak the gas plugs in cola, as it could damage them.

Well of course we all did, and the gas plugs (which were machined from tool steel) came out shiny and clean the next morning. Cheers, Terry.    

[flatlander]

awesome. i have a camping cooker that works with petrol. the jet can get sooty (carbon) which i also remove by soaking in cola. that stuff is truely multy-purpose. you can even drink it if you have to.

nice to learn about why stuff works even after i've been using for ages.

[grcamna2]

No worries mate, you should be able to find some at a farm supply or hardware store in New Salem.

Right here in New Salem,PA.?    I'll have to 'go around' because I just moved into the area and it's all 'new to me'   I feel like your my 'local contact' Terry ! 

[TwoTired]

Do be aware that phosphoric acid converts the surface layer of the iron in steel to another compound.  So, you lose a layer of the base metal structure with each application.

-------------------------
Reactivity Profile
PHOSPHORIC ACID reacts exothermically with bases. May react with active metals, including such structural metals as aluminum and iron, to release hydrogen, a flammable gas. Can initiate the polymerization of certain classes of organic compounds. Reacts with cyanide compounds to release gaseous hydrogen cyanide. May generate flammable and/or toxic gases in contact with dithiocarbamates, isocyanates, mercaptans, nitrides, nitriles, sulfides, and strong reducing agents. Forms explosive mixture with nitromethane. Reacts violently with sodium tetrahydroborate. In the presence of chlorides can corrode stainless steel to form explosive hydrogen gas. Emits toxic and irritating fumes of oxides of phosphorus when heated to decomposition [Lewis, 3rd ed., 1993, p. 1029].

----------------------------------

The application of phosphate coatings makes use of phosphoric acid and takes advantage of the low solubility of phosphates in medium or high pH solutions. Iron, zinc or manganese phosphate salts are dissolved in a solution of phosphoric acid.[6] When steel or iron parts are placed in the phosphoric acid, a classic acid and metal reaction takes place which locally depletes the hydronium (H3O+) ions, raising the pH, and causing the dissolved salt to fall out of solution and be precipitated on the surface. The acid and metal reaction also creates iron phosphate locally which may also be deposited. In the case of depositing zinc phosphate or manganese phosphate the additional iron phosphate is frequently an undesirable addition to the coating.

[grcamna2]

Thank you for that understanding TT,I'll remember

[fendersrule]

Vinegar will do good on what you want it to do. Try it.

Baking Soda is used to neutral the acid AFTER you have soaked it in vinegar for 24 hours or so. You HAVE to neutralize the acid from vinegar otherwise it will flash rust.

[grcamna2]

Ok fenders

[fendersrule]

Those are tough to get shiny too. I usuall always take a wide brush to them, even with vinegar treatment too.

[faux fiddy]

I finally took some pictures for this thread. The black looking surfaces are where a quick brush with a wire wheel and linseed oil was applied. It has been in the weather ever since. The rusty spots were hinges and a tail gate that was welded on since then.

It has been in the elements the whole time since applying linseed oil, and the few speckles of rust is where there was a stick of lumber laying on it preventing it from drying out like the rest.

It does inhibit the rust with a minimal effort.

Probably will try to finish this and paint it before winter.

[grcamna2]

I finally took some pictures for this thread. The black looking surfaces are where a quick brush with a wire wheel and linseed oil was applied. It has been in the weather ever since. The rusty spots were hinges and a tail gate that was welded on since then.

It has been in the elements the whole time since applying linseed oil, and the few speckles of rust is where there was a stick of lumber laying on it preventing it from drying out like the rest.

It does inhibit the rust with a minimal effort.

Probably will try to finish this and paint it before winter.

Fiddy, are you saying here that the linseed oil can be applied to a metal surface after it's been 'de-rusted' and left to dry and it will then keep it from further rust ?

[faux fiddy]

I was going to use it as an undercoating for painting but never got done with it. For the most part it  seems to have kept it from further rusting, and a second coat probably would have helped with the few spots where it did.

The spots by the welds I had to scrub off the Linseed oil residue, and that's why they rusted. It seems to stick on pretty good after it dries.

[grcamna2]

I realize now  that vinegar & baking soda cancel each other... 
I want to ask if using straight vinegar will tarnish the factory coating on spokes/bolts,etc., like the zinc,cadmium plating,nickel,etc. ? 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Yeah, what you were proposing was a typical acid base reaction. Vinegar is basically 3% acetic acid and acid will consume metals. Mild acid like vinegar may help eat/neutralize rust around/from chrome but it can/will eat other raw metals that are not protected by some form of coatings but not zinc though. Nickel and chrome (hard finishes) would be safer than zinc.   

[grcamna2]

Yeah, what you were proposing was a typical acid base reaction. Vinegar is basically 3% acetic acid and acid will consume metals. Mild acid like vinegar may help eat/neutralize rust around/from chrome but it can/will eat other raw metals that are not protected by some form of coatings but not zinc though. Nickel and chrome (hard finishes) would be safer than zinc.

Thanks Man