Topic: 550SS near 100% completion

[putnaja1]

I like the colors!  I think the flames look good- I think the pictures are distorted somehow, and the pics are detracting from the flames- you can tell it's the pictures and not the pinstripes because even the straight edges don't look right.  I have this problem when I post pictures- I think I'm not scaling down the pictures right.  That's my two cents anyways..

You know what I think would really be cool?  If the entire rear face of the tail section (where the cutout for the tire is now) was a read tailight lens- no cutout.  Then when braking, the whole thing would be LED red.  Very cool me thinks!

[ProTeal55]

1. How does the pinstripping look poorly done? If it is the design, then it just means that you don't like my design, and that's okay. But if it truely looks like it was applied badly or if it is crooked, then let me know- I'd like to fix my mistakes.

The pinstripping just looks bad. I dont know if it is the color, or maybe becasue their is so much of it on the bike.
Flames on a Jap bike/cafe racer don't make sense to me...

2. Do you simply not like the notch, or do you really think that there was a better way to make the notch, i.e.- laser cut? I assure you, the notch was a necessity for the seat to work.

The more I look at it, I dont like the seat as whole. It is too square, and that notch just add's to it's poor looks.
The seat doesnt flow with the tank, which ends up not flowing with the rest of the bike. A bike should have a constant flow fron front to back, with not one main point casuing the viewer to "stop" their attention. Everything should work together - to give a good overall impression to the view. Your bike doesnt do this one bit, as it looks like it was pieced together with parts you got a deal on thru Ebay...

3. The exhaust turndown WAS just thrown on at the last minute, but I'm curious- how could I have made it look as if I had spent a lot of time deciding on which open pipe turndown to use that would fit a 550.

Maybe if you wrapped the pipe up to the tip, and over where the tip meets the header itself, so it didnt look so "stuck on" ?
Maybe painted the tip to match the rest of the exhaust ? Maybe not ran a chrome tip, but something raw to match the "hardcore"
look you were going after ? I am not gonna keep on giving you ideas for your future projects, but you get the jist. Once again the exhaust tip is just another part of why this bike looks thrown together...

4. Well, as stated in the post title- the bike was NEARING 100% completion. The wires are now hooked up.

Glad to hear 

5. I like the SS emblems, but if you fork over the cash, you are more than welcome to take them off.

I am glad you like them, as you should since you thought they were good enough for your cafe bike.
I for one don't like them, as they look out of place, and a poor effort for a "custom" touch.
Once again , another piece of the bike that makes the whole thing look throw together...

You wanted me to explain myself, so I did.
As I said before, I am entilted to my opinion , you asked for it, and you got it.
If you like how the bike turned out , then thats all that matters. Allot of people might not like how my bike looks,
but thats their opinion , which they are entilted to have.

[Jeff]

I dig the blue paint, definitely a good choice I think. I like some of the pinstriping. I'm not into the flames so much, just personal tastes. I'm inclined to agree with PT that too much is going on. If you removed the flames and just had the body outline striping you have, that'd be good. I can't really tell what the tank emblem is, so I can't comment on that. Are the stripes the same color gold as the frame?

I think wrapping the pipes is a good idea that will help finish the pipes.

I'm not totally sold on the gold color flames, but I think alot of that seems to be because you have only partially done it. If you're going to go for something that different, go all the way. Paint the fork lowers too, for instance. In these photos the motor looks unfinished contrasted against the gold paint.

Is there a brake light on there?

I think the handgrips you have on there are more of a cruiser/custom style opposed to a cafe racer. To me the essense of a cafe bike is minimalist, only what you need to go faster type stuff. The grips are more of a chrome, hey look at me feel.

The floor mat on the tank indents are a very novel idea. What material are they?

If I was going to change one thing, and only one thing on your bike, it would be the seat where it meets the tank. I didn't notice it at first in the photos because I was looking quickly and it's late and I'm tired, but once pointed out I thought OMG! Couldn't you just add a fold to the front of the seat up and matching the shape of the tank cutout, then pad and cover that? It would look much more complete, plus, the rider's berries, either yours or a new owner's, would be in much better shape. Gotta take care of the boys ya know. Sort of like this:


I definitely think you've given a real good effort here, you just need to go that next step to make it look finished. I know you're trying to save pennies wherever you can, but glaring omissions are going to make it harder to sell. Regardless, it's better than anything I've ever done custom (which would be nothing).

Jeff

[JP]

JP -

Don't give up on colored bikes. Black is default, black is easy and black is for the masses.

Don't bite Carpy, even if dudes on here tell you too.

How much of the bike did you design with the customer in mind, or do you not have one?

There's nothing wrong with chrome grips, if the rest of the bike is clean.

I'm with ya man!  I mean, Carpy's stuff is awesome, but hey, I'm not Carpy!  It seems like (and don't read this wrong guys, I am not yelling or pissed or anything) just because I say, "Hey, I'm a builder," people expect my stuff to be not only like Carpy's, but also on his level.  I am neither out to build bikes that look like his, nor am I on his level.  To be on his level, you cannot work a 40hr a week job, have two kids that need to know daddy loves them, and a wife that needs a lumber-jack/plummer a couple times a week

The vibe that I get, is that if you don't build a bike as good as Carpy- then your not a builder.  Wrong.  So far I have built/restored 3 bikes in a time frame of about six months with no help, in my spare time.  Now, if I had built just one bike in that same time period, it might be as good as Carpy's- but I am not ready for that yet.

I have already said goodbye to the grips, I never liked them but they stayed on because that is what came with the bike and I didn't want to buy new ones.  This bike looks half assed, to you PT, and honestly, I didn't use a fine toothed comb, but.....  It seems to me that everyone forgets my goal- CHEAP.  So far I have six hundred dollars in this bike, I expect to get close to $2,000 with a minimum of $1,700 or it won't be sold.  I may need to wait for spring, but that's okay. 

Most of the stuff that you guys are saying is spot on, but I am not going to spend the extra money on it if I don't feel like it will reward my effort with more money.  Yes, this means even if it is just $10.  Sorry I keep refering to you Proteal, but you have the only customized bike that I can think of right now, so here goes.....Your bike looks pretty good, let's say you had built it to sale, though.  Would your cool front wheel make up the cost difference in the final sale price?  My guess is that $3,000 would be top dollar on your bike, with or without the front wheel.  Since you built it for yourself, then it was a good idea.  But if you where building it just to sale, it would have been useless for your end goal.

From what knowledge I have gathered, the more money you spend on these bikes, the less profit you will yield.  Unless you have a pre-paying customer (which, this bike does not) telling you that they want specific stuff and are willing to pay for it, then you end up spending about $3,000 for bike and parts, yet selling it for $2,800.  You see it all the time.

Perfect example is the 750 street tracker that I have mentioned on here (which is about 85% done, I rode it too yesterday).  My wife says, "Are you sure he's going to like it?"  And I say, "Well, he should, he designed it."  She says, "But it doesn't seem like it should be worth that much more than your other bikes."  And I say, "It isn't.  He is paying me to build him a 4-5k bike.  If he sold it, he would only get 4-5 thousand dollars for it, but he won't sale it because it is exactly what he wants."

That 750 has more odds and ends type stuff on it that many people will not in any way see as different.  For example, I used a brand new dirt bike front brake master cylinder.  Something like that would be ridiculous to put on a bike unless, A- your business has already built up a clientel base that will allow you to sale a bike that costs the customers $10,000.  Or #2.- you got lucky enough in your infancy to score a pre paying customer (I did).

I did the A, #2 thing on purpose

So, long short of it (yeah right), I am not being defensive- I'm just trying to explain my reasoning.  I will not put out a plain looking bike, because it is not my style.  I dig flames and dragons (go ahead and taunt, I get it all the time from my friends), so I put flames on the 550 and I have big plans for a series of dragon bikes.  Look at Benji's stuff- I think most of it looks like crap, but a ton of people really dig it and he has a VERY specific style that comes out in each and every one of his builds.  Same thing with Carpy- very specific style.  Their bikes are on display at Dillard's and mine is down the street at Wal-Mart.  I'm okay with that, for now.  The only guys that jump imediately to the high dollar stuff are guys that have money already.

Keep letting me know what you think, it's all good.
JP

[Jv550]

Yuck...
 

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

I understand the whole on the cheap thing. But if you are really trying to get noticed as a bike builder then why not just buck up a little bit spend the cash to make a high quality product? It seems to me that what you are doing is not a good business strategy because you're associating so-so builds with your name. That's what the business is all about, the association of a high quality product and your work. So if I was you take the time, and a loan and make a kick ass bike that says who you are as a builder.
My .02 cents.

[prsman23@hotmail.c]

Great advice there. Costs next to nothing. Well maybe some elbow grease.

[JP]

Yeah, I agree.  I'll probably go ahead and hit the side covers a bit.  It wouldn't take long and it sure would help out I think.  I may also go ahead and paint the front forks the same as the frame, not sure about this though.  My first real area of consern though is the carbs.  They are leaking and the bike runs like total #$%*.  It is deffinately not ready to sale.  The 750 street tracker's oil pump is going out (or at least that's what I think.  the light comes on at low rpm's and it has plenty of oil) and I need to fix that also, and still paint it.  I really feel like my cup runneth over with things to do, and it is stressful to say the least.  It's good to have you guys to talk to about this stuff, even if some of it is a bit negative- it is still good.  I just wish there was someone here locally to lend a hand now and then.  Sometimes it really sucks to be a 1%'er.

JP

[ProTeal55]

JP -->
You are trying to pass yourself off as a builder, but you are putting out a 1/2 ass product to sell ?
Makes NO sense to me what so ever.
You can be cost effective and still turn a profit if you are smart about where and how you buy your parts. Your blue bike is a 1/2 ass attempt for a custom bike, and it shows.

Like I said earlier, the first time I saw your bike it screamed "thrown together".
The pipes don't flow with the tank, which doesn't go with the seat (what about that gap), and so on. Yes you might sell the bike, but is it really something you would be proud to say that you "built" ?

Yes my bike might not be perfect, or a true "cafe" , but I get more positive comments on it then I have ever got with nay bike I have had. Every time I take it out, I get people asking about the wheel, the line-x'ed tank, etc... So from that, and the feedback I have received on this board, I think that I have done a DECENT job making my scoot something different , and cool. As I said this was the first attempt at a jap bike, and  def. and ready to build another one.

Bottom line is this.
If you 1/2 ass something - it will show.
You cant cut corners on a build, and expect it not to show in the final product.
Why would someone buy your "custom" bik ewhen they can buy a stocker and go on Ebay and buy parts for it, just as you did ?

[ohiocaferacer]

JP -->
You are trying to pass yourself off as a builder, but you are putting out a 1/2 ass product to sell ?
Makes NO sense to me what so ever.
You can be cost effective and still turn a profit if you are smart about where and how you buy your parts. Your blue bike is a 1/2 ass attempt for a custom bike, and it shows.

Like I said earlier, the first time I saw your bike it screamed "thrown together".
The pipes don't flow with the tank, which doesn't go with the seat (what about that gap), and so on. Yes you might sell the bike, but is it really something you would be proud to say that you "built" ?

Yes my bike might not be perfect, or a true "cafe" , but I get more positive comments on it then I have ever got with nay bike I have had. Every time I take it out, I get people asking about the wheel, the line-x'ed tank, etc... So from that, and the feedback I have received on this board, I think that I have done a DECENT job making my scoot something different , and cool. As I said this was the first attempt at a jap bike, and  def. and ready to build another one.

Bottom line is this.
If you 1/2 ass something - it will show.
You cant cut corners on a build, and expect it not to show in the final product.
Why would someone buy your "custom" bik ewhen they can buy a stocker and go on Ebay and buy parts for it, just as you did ?

[JP]

Okay, well- here goes....

PT, I think I have been more than patient with your dislikes.  I don't mind if you don't like what you see, it is as you pointed out- your opinion and you have a right to it.  However, you have just seriously crossed the line into very insulting and childlike behavior. 

WTF, have you not been laid in a while and you are taking it out on me?  My bike is not "half-assed" just because it is not what you like.  I asked for opinions, not slander and insults.  Because I did not use a "Proteal Pre-approved Turndown" does not mean that my bike did not meet the qualifications of a custom build.

Yes, I am VERY proud of this bike and I DEFFINATELY consider it a custom BUILT Cafe Racer that I will gladly hang my name on.  Was it you that spent hours grinding off all of the unnessesary tabs and passenger pegs?  Or was it you that got sand in his crotch and ass crack when sandblasting the engine and frame?  My bad, it must have been you that masked off every little spoke and then painted the rims to match the frame.

I could go on and on.  I worked more than half my ass off on this bike as I have on others.  I will not sit back and listen to such ignorant ranting and critisizing of my hard work from someone who probably hasn't even taken the motor out of his bike.  Or have you actually done a teardown of one of these bikes?  I say impossible.  Someone who has done a full teardown and build up of a bike could never be so insulting to another builder.

To say that you don't like it is fine, but to acctually insult the bike and me as a builder?  Well, without doubt, I'm glad you live up north.  I did NOT simply buy stuff off of ebay and THROW it on this bike.  Have you ever seen a 550 with a tank like mine?  Probably not.  Have you ever seen that seat used on a 550?  Probably not.  I wonder why?  Could it be because I pounded in the indentions myself and sanded and bondo'd and sanded and bondo'd until it was perfect?  No of course not, I bought it on ebay like that.  Dumbass

Please, before someone tells me to chill, read his last post from my perspective.  I asked for opinions and I have had an open mind.  What I got was redicule from a guy with a plain black bike, and insults from someone who has probably never painted with anything but a spray can. 
JP

Probably gonna catch hell for this post, but F it.  I am officially pissed of.  Half-assed my ass!

[Jeff]

I can see many of PT's points, but as I've said on JP's posts before, choice of words is very important. Especially because you can't here tones of voice or see body language.

That said, I can totally understand you being PO'd JP, and I for one am not going to flame you for getting mad and standing up for yourself.

Jeff

[JP]

Thanks Jeff.

It just seemed to me like he might as well have said my kids were stupid and had rotten teeth.  Very insulting.

JP

[ProTeal55]

JP -->
I am not gonna go back and forth with you about this.
Just becasue you busted your ass on this bike doesnt make it look good to me.

1. You asked for opinions
2. You came back at my opinions
3. I defended my original opinions with fact
4. You didn't like what I had to say (and now here we are)

So I will leave it at that.
I am glad you are happy with what you built, and I am sure you will sell it for what you want.
I will not give you an apology for voicing my opinion. I didn't give one to Geeto67, and I wont give one to you either...I was raised to speak up for myself, and speak my honest opinion when it is asked for, and I did.

What I got was redicule from a guy with a plain black bike, and insults from someone who has probably never painted with anything but a spray can.

Not to toot my own horn but my bike is FAR from a "plain black bike" as you put it. I decided to keep the bike dark, to contrast with the raw alum. look I have going. You know what "contrast" means their JP ?And I have built a few cars in my day, and used more than a rattlecan to paint them , so ease off your high horse their bud. Just take a pill and everything will be ok in the longrun, i promise.....

[JP]

Whatever.  You were a jerk starting with your first post on this thread.  Like JV550 simply writing "Yuk", I mean what's the point?  I never expected you to applaud my effort, but to try and cut me below the ankles, what point are you trying to make?  Also, I never asked for an appology, but if we were to meet today, it would be best if you didn't introduce yourself as Proteal.

JP

[ohiocaferacer]

You should post the info and pics over on the TonUp forum.......see what they think??

They are into the cafes.

http://www.tonup.com/phpBB2/index.php

[ProTeal55]

Also, I never asked for an apology, but if we were to meet today, it would be best if you didn't introduce yourself as Proteal.

Is that a threat JP ?
I will gladly PM you my address so you can knock on my door and threaten me to my face.
I don't think you need to threaten me just because you don't agree with my opinions..
How old are you again ?

Bottom line is this.
You asked for an opinion - you got a opinion - you didn't like the opinion - and now you are crying about it. Seems to me that You are the one with the issue , not me brother. Maybe you are upset with yourself because you spent so much time on that bike and it didn't get the feedback you hoped for ? Maybe you realize now that you wont be able to sell your project for what you wanted ?
Maybe you are just uptight and cant take an opinion for what it's worth ? Maybe you stepped in gum this morning ?

I don't knowwhat your deal is, but don't take it out on me....

[SteveD CB500F]

Gentlemen.

I suggest that you (both) take time out to cool down a little.

There really is little point in arguing on a forum like this. You either like it, or you don't. Full stop (OK, period.)

PT - you don't like it - so ignore this thread for a while.

JP - you asked for comments

Both - come back tomorrow and re-read your posts. You may care to delete one or two of them. Any more flaming and I will delete the entire thread.

Steve (I have a big stick but don't like to use it much)...

[my78k]

"Steve (I have a big stick but don't like to use it much)..."

Sorry Steve but taken out of context this particular quote could have a totally different conotation...lol



As for this thread...if you two put as much testosterone and effort into your builds as you do in your posts then no one would ever be able to argue with your quality...

I'm guessing that we're all a little stressed about the riding season coming to an end?

Lighten up boys...some of you take this all a little too personally!

[SteveD CB500F]

Sorry Steve but taken out of context this particular quote could have a totally different conotation...lol

The thought had crossed my mind.

[JP]

Okay Steve and 78k, I just took an estrogen pill and I am not so mad.

PT,
I didn't mind it when you where simply not liking the bike.  It was the point at wich you began to insult my abilities as a builder and started lableing my build as "half-assed" that pissed me off.  Their are a lot of people that view this forum, and I was not going to let someone get away with labeling my build as half-assed because that kind of stuff sticks, man.  If I had just conceded the point and rolled over like a lap dog, then people would start seeing my stuff on ebay or whatever and think, "oh hey, he's that guy that does everything half-assed, I'm not buying from him."  

All because YOU don't like it.  Like for example, the pinstriping.  Alot of people don't like pinstriping, and many have said that they didn't like the pinstriping on this bike.  Okay.  But you said that it looked as if it was poorly done.  What?  Is it crooked?  No.  Is it peeling off?  No.  You just simply don't like the design, and that's okay.  But the way it was worded made it seem as if I couldn't pinstripe properly.  Understand?

It is just a total lack of manors.
JP

Don't worry, I would need a better reason to go to Chicago than this thread.

[ProTeal55]

Good luck to you , and your Cafe building career their JP...

[kuyarico]

Yeah, I agree.  I'll probably go ahead and hit the side covers a bit.  It wouldn't take long and it sure would help out I think.  I may also go ahead and paint the front forks the same as the frame, not sure about this though.  My first real area of consern though is the carbs.  They are leaking and the bike runs like total #$%*.  It is deffinately not ready to sale.  The 750 street tracker's oil pump is going out (or at least that's what I think.  the light comes on at low rpm's and it has plenty of oil) and I need to fix that also, and still paint it.  I really feel like my cup runneth over with things to do, and it is stressful to say the least.  It's good to have you guys to talk to about this stuff, even if some of it is a bit negative- it is still good.  I just wish there was someone here locally to lend a hand now and then.  Sometimes it really sucks to be a 1%'er.

JP

Seems to me like you've spent a lot of time painting, pinstriping, and customizing, but you've neglected one of the most essential parts of the build. If the carbs are leaking and it runs like total #$%*, then what's the point of the build? I'm not trying to be negative, but I would think that getting the bike running well would be the number one priority.

[JP]

kuyarico,

The bike was running good before the build, but I needed to use the carbs on another bike to get it running and sale it.  I rebuilt a set for this bike, but they are still leaking and of course they need to be re-jetted for the pipe and filters.  I wouldn't sale it before I was certain it was running good.

JP

[ProTeal55]

Don't worry, I would need a better reason to go to Chicago than this thread.

Meeting PT and hanging out would be one of 1000 reasons to blow through Chi-Town... it's such a dope city!

Anytime u wanna blast into chi-town you let me know..
Me and the strippers will be waiting...