Author Topic: Early Sandcast motor found  (Read 3474 times)

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Offline Prospect

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Early Sandcast motor found
« on: September 28, 2014, 12:20:50 PM »
First I'd like to think BillPellerine for turning me on to this motor .  Bill and I have  traded parts about a year ago. He had some early sandcast parts which I needed. He knew that I was looking for a complete early motor. Three weeks ago Bill sent me an email saying there was an incomplete chopper with a sandcast engine for sale near him. I was in South America at the time and I immediately called the seller to ask questions. He knew what he had it was asking a fair price. The next day I called him again and bought it over the phone. I flew to Nova Scotia to meet the seller and look over the parts.  The motor looked fantastic and had been rebuilt but not put back together. I bought the whole package and shipped it  to Toronto.

I like to rebuild motors in my basement over the long winter. And this project will be perfect. Very excited and I think I look great in my sandcast. Thanks again bill.

thats not rust but grease

Current Bikes

1969 CB750  Sandcast #256
1971 CB750K1
1972 CB750K1
1975 CB400F
1975 GL1000 Goldwing
1954 Harley Davidson Panhead
1957 Harley Davidson Panhead

Toronto Canada

Offline dhall57

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2014, 12:40:51 PM »
Great find Prospect. A 106 SC powerplant that is rare indeed 8)
1970 CB750KO
1971 CB500KO-project bike
1973 CB350G- project bike
1974 CB750K4-project bike
1974 CB750K4
1976 CB750K6
1977 GL1000
1997 Harley Wideglide

Offline 754

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2014, 01:09:04 PM »
I told Bill to snag that one, and have the earliest honda 750 chopper in the World..!
Does it have the smaller alternator bolt thread , in end of crank!
 What carbs were with it?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 01:11:27 PM by 754 »
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2014, 01:41:38 PM »
Great Find............all..............I knew of an early 750 chopper in Shediac, NB, from a family trip back in 1998, and 2 completely restored sand-cast bikes are in or near St. John, NB.................registered on the SCO site. Your motor should be close to the #97 project thread. 
Dennis in Wisconsin
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Offline harisuluv

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2014, 01:56:06 PM »
yup, that's early.

Offline ekpent

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2014, 03:09:57 PM »
Great score !! That was probably slapped together the first couple days of production.  What is your frame number its going in ?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 03:16:16 PM by ekpent »

Offline Greggo

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2014, 04:03:40 PM »
Excellent!  The valve cover has the waffling inside like MarkB's early motor!  Very exciting to see the guts ;D ;D

Offline BPellerine

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2014, 04:45:34 PM »
just thought this engine should go to someone who will and can put it together in a frame it should be in,and I suspected that the bike could not be reg,d in ns because it is a modified Harley frame not factory so they will not inspect here,I would not even attempt to restore a sandcast with the prices the way they are,sometimes just finding this stuff is great fun for me anyway,hope you make a nice bike out of this stuff james!bill
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Offline jack58

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2014, 07:08:39 PM »
good deal I am still looking for a motor or a set of cases that will mate up to my bike number 803  any one out there  I sure could use the help finding a needle in a hay stack

Offline kmb69

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2014, 08:53:20 PM »
That is a VERY NICE score indeed!!!

Offline jaguar

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2014, 07:41:31 AM »
Wow, great find.

Offline Prospect

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2014, 10:21:51 AM »
I told Bill to snag that one, and have the earliest honda 750 chopper in the World..!
Does it have the smaller alternator bolt thread , in end of crank!
 What carbs were with it?
I'll have to check the alternator bolt thread size.  I have the whole project in storage right now.  The carbs that came with the bike were later carbs.  The cleanest set I've ever seen.  Fully rebuilt.  I bought a correct set with the four pull cables from a member last year. 


Great Find............all..............I knew of an early 750 chopper in Shediac, NB, from a family trip back in 1998, and 2 completely restored sand-cast bikes are in or near St. John, NB.................registered on the SCO site. Your motor should be close to the #97 project thread. 

I did hear about two Sandcast bikes near St. John.  I would love to know how they ended up up there.  Marks motor is number 100!  Only 6 numbers seperate us.

Great score !! That was probably slapped together the first couple days of production.  What is your frame number its going in ?


This is going into my frame 256 (I found locally) which came with a replacement unstamped diecast cases.  I'm not sure what I'm going to do with that motor because everything inside it is sandcast along with the top end.  The side covers are not.  Any suggestions?  I don't think there is a market for unstamped diecast engines at all. 

I was excited to see the 9 hole clutch covers because I've been looking for one for years. 
Current Bikes

1969 CB750  Sandcast #256
1971 CB750K1
1972 CB750K1
1975 CB400F
1975 GL1000 Goldwing
1954 Harley Davidson Panhead
1957 Harley Davidson Panhead

Toronto Canada

Offline Prospect

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2014, 10:28:26 AM »
Here are the carbs. 



Check out the welds on the exhaust flange. Everything you read about the sandcast bikes suggests the welding on them is a bit rough. My frame is similar.


Current Bikes

1969 CB750  Sandcast #256
1971 CB750K1
1972 CB750K1
1975 CB400F
1975 GL1000 Goldwing
1954 Harley Davidson Panhead
1957 Harley Davidson Panhead

Toronto Canada

Offline markb

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2014, 10:40:07 AM »
Nice Find!!  Too bad on the carbs.   Definately not sandcast vintage.  I think they're K1+.
1969 CB750 sandcast #97 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1969 CB750 sandcaxt #576 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1553 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #1990 - Sold
1969 CB750 sandcast #5383 restored - Sold Restoration thread link
1970 CB750 K0 restored - Sold
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2014, 01:52:37 PM »
If you can't find a market for the no-stamp motor.............I may start a small market for it............in my garage ;D
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
'63 CL72 Project(s)
'66 CL77 Red
'67 Triumph T100C
'73 750K3 Owned since New
'77 750F2 Cafe Project
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Offline AbbyRider

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2014, 08:05:22 PM »
If you're going to be selling the K1 carbs at some point is definitely be interested. I've got a K1 motor in my garage but I've put off rebuilding it because I've got no carbs for it.
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Offline Don R

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2014, 09:05:12 PM »
There are a few guys like me that could use an unstamped diecast case. I have a 1014,000 era bike with a K4 engine. An unstamped case or stamped replacement case would be better. I have a badly stuck 104xxxx diecast engine for early heads etc. That said, the 836 K4 runs like a scalded dog.

 Nice find by the way, It's always good to see a few parts find their way together.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 09:10:09 PM by Don R »
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Offline kmb69

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2014, 09:19:39 PM »
Pretty sure the carbs are K2+. The K1's still had brass floats and 120 mains. Maybe K1 carbs if the floats were changed at some point.

The carb chart on HondaChopper doesn't break down the 69-76 carbs very well but I think the floats and jet sizes changed at K2 with the 341 pipes.

http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_specs/carb_specs.html


Offline HondaMan

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2014, 10:26:45 PM »
Pretty sure the carbs are K2+. The K1's still had brass floats and 120 mains. Maybe K1 carbs if the floats were changed at some point.

The carb chart on HondaChopper doesn't break down the 69-76 carbs very well but I think the floats and jet sizes changed at K2 with the 341 pipes.

http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_specs/carb_specs.html



The jet changes were largely based on the New Factory vs. Old Factory bikes during the K1 and K2. The model 657A carbs from Old Factory had air screws with tiny holes in their tips, and mainjets were #120 until about 11/70 builds or so, when they went to #115. This corresponded to a lesser spark advancer angle. The New Factory K1 had solid-tipped air screws for the most part, with #115 mainjets until late in their K1, when it went to #110 and the needles went from notch 3 to 4 and the floats became plastic. In the early K2 Old Factory bikes, the mainjet was #110 and the needle in notch 4  on model 657A carbs with "holey" air screws and plastic floats, while the New Factory K2 had #105 mainjets and notch 3 with solid-tipped airscrews and plastic floats. By about 3/72 production, all the K2 I saw had #105 mainjets and needles in notch 4, and most carbs had become Model 657B by then, all off which (in my notes) had solid-tipped air screws and plastic floats. This calibration stayed until the end of K5, although some of the K5/6 bikes got carbs with model "7A" stamped on them (but they were otherwise identical to 657B). Oddly, some of the "7A" carbs up through the F0 bikes had brass floats, but also had the fuel valves with the tiny filter screens on them.

There's a couple other carb models in this mix: one is the 087a model, seen mostly on bikes sold in California. They have a larger hole in the little brass orifice in the inlet bell area that feeds air to the pilot (idle) jet, and blunt-tipped, poorly-polished tapers on the air screws, which are (or WERE) fitted with a little plastic cap that was supposed to keep you from adjusting the screw. Most of those I have seen lately have split from heat and vanished, leaving a tiny screw head that sticks out of the carb body and leaks fuel around its edges. The mainjets are #105, but the needle is #271307, being thicker in the lower midrange throttle zone for a lean-burn, low-emission, valve guide-eating smog-controlled CB750 engine. :D
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2014, 10:49:09 PM »
Interesting info Mark. My F0 with engine #CB750E-1001954 has 064A's with plastic floats. 3 of them are also marked ANA with the 4th marked AML. Any info on this? These ARE the originals. 105's with middle needle clip position.

The Honda Chopper chart does not even list 064A's. Definitely not a 069A.

This looks to be the better chart. More inclusive.
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/specs.html
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 10:51:58 PM by Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er »
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Offline ekpent

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Re: Early Sandcast motor found
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2014, 05:02:38 AM »
I personally in all the early bikes I have bought have never run across a #115 jet yet.