Author Topic: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?  (Read 1380 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline gregripko

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 689
1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« on: October 01, 2014, 03:25:54 PM »
Battery Test (DCV 20)

No power = 11.58
1100rpm = 10.16
2500rpm = 13.80
3000rpm= 14.00
3500rpm = 14.50


My battery was basically dead when I did this test. I do really short rides around town with a lot of idling and headlights running in day time. Is there anything I can do to improve my scores so that I can use my electric start instead of kicking all the time?

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 04:36:22 PM »
Stock headlight? Ignition? Wiring? Switches? Fuse block? Connectors?

Wrong procedure for the charging system test.  Must begin with a fully charged and known good battery.   The bikes charging system is a maintainer, not a dead battery restorative device.

All your posted measurements mean the system has some proper functions and hasn't failed out right.

Didn't I already post what's below in one of your previous threads?

Charging system methodical verification checks, CB750, CB550, CB500, CB400, and CB350.

Begin with problem verification and characterization with recorded data.
A -- Fully charge a known good battery.  Let it rest for 2 hours, off the charger, and measure the battery voltage.  (Target is 12.6-12.8V.)
B -- Start the bike and measure the battery voltage at idle, 2000, 3000, 4000, and 5000 rpm.
C -- Repeat the measurements of B with lighting off.

The above tests identify charging system success, failure, or degree of "faulty".  The success voltages are listed in the Shop manual.

D -- Assuming the above indicates faulty, do check the RECTIFIER diodes with a diode tester or ohmmeter capable of testing diodes and uses more than .7 volts to make the test(s).
Of the twelve test made in D, six must read low ohms and six must read very high ohms.

E- assuming no faults were found in D,  Measure the white and green wires disconnected from the REGULATOR.  CB750s should 6.8 ohms - ish,  CB550s/350s/ and 400s should read 4.9 ohms- ish.

F- If there are no bullet holes or road rash/divots on the alternator case, the stator is probably good.  But, you can check for yellow to yellow continuity (.35 ohms) among all the wires, and that no yellow wire has continuity to the engine case.

G- Assuming no faults found in D, E, and F, measure the disconnected terminals of the REGULATOR.  The black and white terminals should measure zero ohms (subtract meter error if there is any).  Higher than Zero ohms, indicates internal contact contamination needing cleaning and attention per shop manual.

H - Assuming D, E, F, and G have not found faults. We can verify all the of the charging system minus the regulator is functioning correctly, by using a temporary jumper to connect the disconnected white wire (normally attached to the REGULATOR) and connecting the White directly to the the battery POS terminal.  Repeat the B and C tests.  However, if at any time the battery voltage rises above 15V, stop the test.  Such an indication would prove the charging system capable of maintaining a known good battery.  If this test never achieves 15V, then there is a wire/connector issue in either the ground path leading back to the battery NEG terminal, a wiring/ connector issue withe the rectifier RED path to the battery POS terminal, or you made a mistake in D through G.

I - (not used, can be confused with L)

J -  The only parts that remain to prove or expose are the REGULATOR (in active mode) and the electrical path between the battery POS terminal and the black wire that connects to the REGULATOR.

K - Lying to and starving the regulator
The regulator can only do its job correctly if it gets a proper voltage report of true battery voltage status.  The Vreg monitors the Black wire for this status.  Measuring the voltage lost between the Battery terminals and the Vreg connections identifies problems that are not really the charging system's fault.
Two connection paths must be checked, the Battery POS terminal to the Black wire connection at the VReg, and the Battery NEG terminal to the Green wire connection to the Vreg.  A volt meter can measure these losses directly by placing a probe between the two identified points, Black path and then the green path.  The numbers are summed and the error seen by the Vreg quantified.  Anything over .5V loss is cause for concern and anything over 1V is a certain issue to be corrected.  Each connector, terminal, fuse clip, or switch in the pathway can cause voltage reporting loss.

The regulator also passes the received voltage on to to the Alternator field coil to create a magnetic field within the alternator,  The voltage level determines the strength of the magnetic field and the maximum output capability of the alternator.  Therefore, starving  the Vreg of true battery voltage leads to reduced max output capability of the alternator.

L - regulator operation/verification.
  The Vreg sends voltage to the alternator field in response to measured voltage which is battery state of charge.  Any voltage at the battery of less than 13.5V sends full black wire voltage to the alternator's white wire.  The alternator output will vary with RPM, even if "told" to produce max power by the Vreg.  If the alternator has enough RPM to overcome system load, any excess power is routed to the battery which will raise the battery voltage (slowly if depleted and rapidly if nearly full).   When the battery reaches 14.5V, the regulator reduces the voltage to the alternator, reducing output strength and preventing battery overcharge.  If the battery exceeds 14.7V, the regulator clamps the alternator field coil power to zero (0V), effective shutting off the alternator.

Because, there is electrical load from the system, an alternator that is not producing power allows the battery to deplete and the voltage falls.  The Vreg responds by turning the alternator back on in accordance with battery state/ charge level.

The Vreg state changes can be monitored/verified by observing the battery voltage state, and the White wire to the alternator field.  (Two meters are handy for this.)  The "trip" voltages can be adjusted with the adjust screw, while changing engine RPM and electrical load that the bike presents to the battery/charging system to "make" the battery reach the voltage levels need for the set trip points.  IE. with load reduced (lighting off) and the engine above 2500 RPM, a charged battery will attain 14.5 V.  Anything above that and the adjust screw needs to be backed out to keep the battery safe from harm.
The shop manual outlines bench set up mechanical adjustments that should be performed on unknown or tampered units.  These should be resolved before final trip point adjust tuning.

Note that while the system is working, the Vreg can change states rapidly before your very eyes., changing 5 times or more while you blink.  Therefore, you may have to mentally average values measured on the White wire if your selected meter doesn't do that for you.

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline gregripko

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 689
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 05:42:26 PM »
Stock lamp....pamco ignition

I'll give it a charge and proceed with the testing you posted (thank you)...


Random question.... Is there an aftermarket setup for controlling headlight for cb550 76? Or is this something I would do by wiring a basic switch?

Offline goldarrow

  • one day, i'll be an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,361
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 06:40:51 PM »
I'm sure you already know this, that these bikes don't charge well under 2500 rpm.  When motor is at full advance, that's when charging system is kicking in.  Just put your battery on trickle charger the night before.   Or another option is to change your riding style. 

I commute 100 miles round trip 5 days a week, never once I needed a battery charger. 
Life Is Full Of Challenges - And My Backyard Is Full Of SOHC4's

CB550 K0
CB750 K0, K2, K23 JDM, K45, K5
And the little ones z50r, xr50r, st90


750k5 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=114817.0

Offline heymak

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 52
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2014, 07:14:12 PM »
Get yourself a gel battery , u will never look back

Offline gregripko

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 689
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2014, 09:11:49 PM »
Yeah I've noticed......what a commute though!  I wish I could ride more but I'm unfortunately located in Southern California where people drive like idiots and the highways are poorly designed. Honestly even doing mostly short drives I've had people just pull right out in front of me equipped with poor braking and a horn that wouldn't scare a baby

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,132
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2014, 11:29:48 PM »
Quote
change your riding style.
And this goes for all of you that have this mysterious charging problem, you never hear about in this part of the world.
For short distances use a moped or even better a pedal bike.
Or a pedelec like http://www.thecoolbikingcompany.com/winkel/bluelabel-cruiser-ii-hybrid-high-speed-elektrische-fiets/
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 11:34:43 PM by Deltarider »
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,040
  • I refuse...
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 05:41:21 AM »
Changing the headlight and the tail light will help, but only some. A stronger battery will also help "some" but the inherent charging system anemia will always be your challenge.

While riding, you should let the RPMs climb higher prior to shifting. Most believe these 40 year old girls want to be nursed; untrue. Rev the motor up, shift cleanly, but ride within safe speeds. Even while "idling" you can keep the RPMs up closer to 2k.

Given where you live, I would not advocate riding without a headlight or tail light burning. But LEDs will burn much brighter and draw less from your electrical system. Electrical drain and over heating are the 2 greatest challenges I see for your bike/commute.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 10:09:27 AM »
One of the benefits of quiet exhaust, is that you can rev the motor (and alternator) without drawing the attention of the cops thinking you are speeding/reckless.  Not to mention the ire of those already frustrated with traffic around you.

My motto is always have the engine in the power band when moving (at any speed), as throttle can be just as effective as brakes in a traffic threat escape situation. For the 550, that's a minimum of 3000 RPM.  Select the gear accordingly, to get that.

If you are unwilling or unable to do that, get a headlight switch and add a voltmeter to the bike.  Maybe invest in a solar battery charger for when you are parked away from an AC outlet.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline gregripko

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 689
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2014, 10:30:09 AM »
Thanks for all the input... Think I'm going to invest in a decent battery tender as the one I'm using now can't be left on over 8 hours. I like the idea of the solar charger as well... Thankful my bike kicks over so easily just in case...

I charged my battery last night and it was reading around 13 with no power. I'll check it again before I ride.

In regards to riding in Southern California.... I often switch my high beam on when riding at night just to make myself visible... And I always ride like people are out to kill me and so far it's worked ok. 6000 miles and no accidents *knock on wood*

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2014, 11:10:39 AM »
The high beam will, of course, place extra toll on the battery and charging system. 
If you are leaving your high beam on in traffic, I consider that bad social behavior.  And, it never seemed smart to me to intentionally blind other drivers while sharing the roadway.

I recall a study done many years ago that observed oncoming drivers tended to drive right at and aim for a bright light.  It was a natural tendency that had to be fought to overcome.  Training regimen instructed to forcibly focus on the right side of the roadway edge to avoid the tendency.  Considering the average prowess demonstrated by California drivers, it doesn't seem wise to rely on extra effort or thought from other drivers for one's own survival. 
imo
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline gregripko

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 689
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2014, 11:50:16 AM »
I should have clarified a little bit....

I rarely use my high beam for cars on the opposite side of the road....but rather....when a car is about to pull out on a cross street (in a moment where the car isn't moving at all)...so that tendency to go towards the light is negligible. I also ride with my thumb basically hovering the horn ready to fire even though people really don't care and will probably drive off if you crash anyways.

Offline Bodi

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,696
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2014, 08:12:57 PM »
Too many years ago I had several experiences of cars trying to kill me on a CB77 (yes, that long ago...) and I installed a very high powered truck air horn, deleting the (useless) electric starter and using its solenoid for the horn compressor mounted where the starter motor had been. It really did help get drivers' attention. I got spot checked by police once, the officer knelt down about 10 feet in front of the bike and said "turn on the headlight and blow the horn"... he is probably still partlially deaf from that.

Offline gregripko

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 689
Re: 1976 CB550K Electrical Look Good?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2014, 12:41:39 AM »
Charged it up and went for a nice night drive with instant startups

On a seperate note...here's a quick drive by on my CB550 with motogp exhaust 

http://youtu.be/18VMNiOeEHs