Topic: Senior project for high school - 78 CB750K

[grcamna2]

No. Relieving the pressure on a spoke at a time will knock your rim out of true. Release them all, and install them and true later.

Truing is pretty easy, and take a few pictures of their pattern for reference later. Mark the valve location at 6/12:00 for a visual guide. Tension equally, bit by bit upon install.

+1
 You can true it best w/ a truing stand(I have one for bikes but will also fit M/C wheels)and you can make one from wood.Then remember to initially start tightening the spokes w/ an equal amount of threads showing on each spoke and go a 1/2 -1 turn on each one equally until your wheel is tensioned...from that point you can begin truing it from side to side and up and down.

[Tsunami]

Just read through your build, super way to bond with you son.  I once did a similar thing with a car with a blown engine.  He worked the summer to raise the money for the parts and we worked together to fix it.  He was then able to drive off to school in the mid west.

My CB is a 78 as well haven't inventoried the worthwhile parts I will not be using but if you find something you need give me a holler and see if I have it.

Looks like your saving one more from the graveyard, best of luck. I'll keep on watching.

[Stoli]

In theory, your idea of replacing one spoke at a time would probably get you in the ballpark of a straight wheel, that needed minimal tweaking to make true, but the problem is that it is impossible. To remove just one spoke, you would have to cut it and there is no way to replace it without bending the new one into an unusable state. You'll see what I mean when you start disassembling the wheel.

Doing it yourself isn't particularly difficult, but it requires some patience and $75 to $100 in tools. A decent truing stand is about $60-$70 and you'll need a decent spoke wrench. You can also use the stand to balance the wheel when you're done. Buchanan's makes a really nice wrench - a bit pricey but I'm really glad I splurged on it. As an alternative, you can ship them your hubs and rims and have them do it.

There is a decent tutorial on the forum.  Also, considering the nature of your project, another skill learned would be in keeping with the goals of your build. It's a rewarding experience... "Ya, my son and I rebuilt and trued the wheels after we rebuilt the engine..."

I think I have a link to the tutorial in my first project thread.

[Old Scrambler]

Neat thread

A few comments..............hope to help out............just remember, its YOUR money

Wheels.........Lots of front wheels in much better condition could be had for less than SS spoke package.  All good advice on lacing..........but could use the rear swingarm set in a vice as a truing-stand.

All of the other tires are preferred over 404s.............they're not bad tires, they just don't look right   Maybe that's because I see so many of them on H-D products.

[Restoration Fan]

Neat thread

A few comments..............hope to help out............just remember, its YOUR money

Wheels.........Lots of front wheels in much better condition could be had for less than SS spoke package.  All good advice on lacing..........but could use the rear swingarm set in a vice as a truing-stand.

All of the other tires are preferred over 404s.............they're not bad tires, they just don't look right   Maybe that's because I see so many of them on H-D products.

Ha.  Well the guy who recommended them, both him and his wife are Harley riders.  So you're likely correct in your reasoning. 

The guy did say that they have a fellow who trues wheels for them for $175 each to lace and true.  If I lace it, he'll true for $100 per wheel.  Still sounds like a lot to me and I've got the SOHC bug 100% now, so I'm almost certain this won't be the last bike that I end up working on after Logan has gone off to college (assuming I can afford other bikes with 2 kids in college at the same time).  So I think Stoli is right...this is another skill we're going to acquire. 

I'll go buy a truing stand and spoke wrench and we'll give it a go.

[Restoration Fan]

Just read through your build, super way to bond with you son.  I once did a similar thing with a car with a blown engine.  He worked the summer to raise the money for the parts and we worked together to fix it.  He was then able to drive off to school in the mid west.

My CB is a 78 as well haven't inventoried the worthwhile parts I will not be using but if you find something you need give me a holler and see if I have it.

Looks like your saving one more from the graveyard, best of luck. I'll keep on watching.

That's a very generous offer.  Toytuff made a similarly kind offer earlier in the thread and I'll definitely keep both of you in mind if we come across something that you guys might have.

By the way, very envious of your location Tsunami.  That area up around Sacramento is some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen.

[Restoration Fan]

One other note for the night:  we were able to get the gearshift assembly apart without having to drill out any of the screws.  The good old Craftsman impact screwdriver and a bit of PB Blaster worked wonders.  We're going to try leaving the rotor on as we get to splitting the cases tomorrow. 

We promised my buddy (Logan's project facilitator) that we'd wait until he and his son are here tomorrow before we split the cases.  His son is a freshman in college but he is really interested in the project as well.  So tomorrow afternoon we expect to finally be able to get in to the kickstarter mechanism to see what was going on with it.

Once we get that sorted, hopefully we can start prepping the cases for paint and get the gaskets to start buttoning the engine back up and start reassembly. 

[grcamna2]

Neat thread

A few comments..............hope to help out............just remember, its YOUR money

Wheels.........Lots of front wheels in much better condition could be had for less than SS spoke package.  All good advice on lacing..........but could use the rear swingarm set in a vice as a truing-stand.

All of the other tires are preferred over 404s.............they're not bad tires, they just don't look right   Maybe that's because I see so many of them on H-D products.

Ha.  Well the guy who recommended them, both him and his wife are Harley riders.  So you're likely correct in your reasoning. 

The guy did say that they have a fellow who trues wheels for them for $175 each to lace and true.  If I lace it, he'll true for $100 per wheel.  Still sounds like a lot to me and I've got the SOHC bug 100% now, so I'm almost certain this won't be the last bike that I end up working on after Logan has gone off to college (assuming I can afford other bikes with 2 kids in college at the same time).  So I think Stoli is right...this is another skill we're going to acquire. 

I'll go buy a truing stand and spoke wrench and we'll give it a go.

+1 Ron  ,it's nice to get every spoke evenly torqued to 'spec' and trued up so they roll real nice; do you think you'll put some alloy rims on'er and polish them up to a high shine ?

[Restoration Fan]

+1 Ron  ,it's nice to get every spoke evenly torqued to 'spec' and trued up so they roll real nice; do you think you'll put some alloy rims on'er and polish them up to a high shine ?

It's not out of the question but I honestly don't know where to buy alloy rims from or how much they cost.  I've got literally dozens of parts links saved in my browser but I don't remember seeing them.

[grcamna2]

Some members here might have a couple or know of where some good used? ones might be had.I know lot's of vintage folks like the shouldered rim Akront type because they speak 'Vintage Classic Quality'... at least they do to me   

[calj737]

$175@ for lace and true is about 2.5x more expensive than I've ever seen.

I think Buchanans charges $45 and they'll guarantee the damn thing. Now, I'm not recommended sending your wheel of to them, but when I've bought their aluminum rim to mate to a custom hub, I've sent my hubs to them for spoke building and had them lace/true for best results. Assembled wheel comes back. But $175, Geez WTH!

Unless you're interested in having alloy rims, I'd spend the time (Logan's time is very, very cheap right now  ) and him polish them with MetalRescue, 0000 steel wool and some Coca-Cola. Half for him, half as a polishing lubricant.

Buchanans sells a variety of alloy rims, most are in the $150-$250 per wheel range. Just an FYI. Only way I'd spend the money now, is if you/Logan genuinely intend to keep the bike long term (10 years or more). Then it's worth it to me.

[Stev-o]

FYI - DSS sells aftermarket rims for $55...

https://www.davidsilverspares.com/CB750K-FOUR-1977-USA/part_192961/

[Restoration Fan]

FYI - DSS sells aftermarket rims for $55...

https://www.davidsilverspares.com/CB750K-FOUR-1977-USA/part_192961/

The good news is that my rear rim looks to be in much better shape than the front rim although I believe that both will clean up just fine.  My only real concern with the front rim is that there is indeed some rust where the spokes join the rim.  The rubber seal was holding moisture in and let it get some rust there.  We'll soak it in some Metal Rescue and hit it lightly with the wire wheel to see how much is left after the rust is all gone.  If it's an issue, I'll definitely buy one of these from DSS.

You can see in the attached photo that it appears that it will clean up in the 2 or 3 places where I hit it with a wire wheel.

The bad news is that DSS also seems to not carry the 17" rear rim. 

While I'm thinking about it, how big of a deal would it be if I replaced the 17" rear wheel with an 18" rear wheel?  What geometry does that affect?  The 18" seems to be much more standardly available and also means I could buy the Bridgestone Spitfires with the raised white letters, which both Logan and I really prefer.  Bridgestone carries the 17" rear rim but only in a black side wall with no white lettering.  I know it's a small and trivial detail...and not a deal breaker long term...but it sure would be nice. 

[toytuff]

I have a front rim for shipping.

tt

[Restoration Fan]

I have a front rim for shipping.

tt

I might need it; I'm not sure.  The front rim cleaned up decently.



However, there are these areas where the rim looks weird.  I can't tell if it was welded there or what it is but it doesn't look like rust.  When you grind that area with a wire wheel, it just gets darker.

[Retro Rocket]

Thats pitting from rust mate, looks like a couple of holes right through the rim as well, I wouldn't use them ... ....

[Restoration Fan]

Also, we worked on splitting the cases today.  We had already removed the upper bolts on the case but flipped it up on the side today so we could remove the oil pan, oil pump and all of the bolts on the lower side.  My buddy couldn't come over because of family responsibilities, so we decided to go it alone.

Two questions:
1.  The only two bolts we left in are the two large ones you can see in the photo below.  We put a ratchet on them and tried turning them, but the 14mm socket (seemed to be the one that fit them) is trying to round off the head.  Are these supposed to be removed?



2.  And this is the big one that's two parts.  The manual says to turn the case upside down so that the cylinder head is on the bottom and remove the lower half of the case that way.  But that's kind of like saying "Prepare the rocket to go to the moon.  Hit the button to make it go."  Ummm...could we get a few more details there, please?

a.  Like, how do you guys do this so that you don't damage the studs because turning it upside down means that these studs are going to be holding up the weight of the engine.
b.  It appears the PO used blue gasket sealant between the two case halves because you can see small traces of it in the seams between the two.  Is there some technique to separating the two halves?  Like do you use a razor blade to try and cut that gasket or do you just grab it and yank? 

[Restoration Fan]

I have a front rim for shipping.

tt

toyfuff,
I sent you a PM.  I'll definitely take the rim and gladly pay you for it.  Just let me know in the PM how you want me to pay.  And thank you very much for the offer.

[toytuff]

Replied.

Let me check the condition. Might be the same as yours, might be better.

tt

[calj737]

I only ever split my cases when the motor is installed on an engine stand. Never done it on a bench. 

[Restoration Fan]

I only ever split my cases when the motor is installed on an engine stand. Never done it on a bench. 

Yeah, Logan and I were looking at it and going, "Uhhhh...do they REALLY want us to turn this thing over and have the weight of the engine resting on the studs?"

We decided to work on other stuff for the afternoon and wait until someone on the forums gave us some better suggestions than just "flip it over". 

[Old Scrambler]

Large Wooden Blocks...............several

If I'm seeing correctly..............those large bolts are the galley caps and do not have to be removed. Hint.........are you sure you removed all of the cap-bolts from the top?  If so, insert a thin pry-bar at the rear corner of the cases and tap/pry lightly. They should break lose without much effort.

After cleaning, if the case edges are not damaged, all that is needed is an evenly spread thin layer of Honda or Yama-bond. Do not use anything with the word 'silicone' in it.

[danyo]

I splited cases yesterday. After  removal of top case bolts, then turn upside down ( engine stand) , removal lower case bolts - I could hear pressure release sound (something like pssssss and I was able to pull lower case up with little wiggling. My case was never opened before so no rtv to fight. I subscribed to the thread and I'm watching your progress in hope I can use info from members. I barely have time to work on my project - 1977 cb 750k - so I didn't started my restoration thread - just following yours. Also english is my second language so it's time consuming to build a sentence for me. This forum keeps me belive that I will be able to put everything back together.  Back to my engine - looking much better inside then outside. What is your plan regarding preparation for painting cases. You going to remove old paint ( if yes -how- soda blasting?, paint stripper?) or spray over old paint after cleaning, degreasing.

[Restoration Fan]

I splited cases yesterday. After  removal of top case bolts, then turn upside down ( engine stand) , removal lower case bolts - I could hear pressure release sound (something like pssssss and I was able to pull lower case up with little wiggling. My case was never opened before so no rtv to fight. I subscribed to the thread and I'm watching your progress in hope I can use info from members. I barely have time to work on my project - 1977 cb 750k - so I didn't started my restoration thread - just following yours. Also english is my second language so it's time consuming to build a sentence for me. This forum keeps me belive that I will be able to put everything back together.  Back to my engine - looking much better inside then outside. What is your plan regarding preparation for painting cases. You going to remove old paint ( if yes -how- soda blasting?, paint stripper?) or spray over old paint after cleaning, degreasing.

We have the head and cylinders already off and have been working on cleaning those slowly but steadily.  I'm thinking about taking the cylinders to a place here in Atlanta to try their dry ice blasting on the fins.  It's the same process as soda blasting but it uses finely powdered dry ice instead of soda, so there's no soda residue left.  If that works out well, I'll take the head and the engine casing there to do the same.

Worst case, we'll use aircraft stripper on the engine case to remove old paint but we will definitely not paint over the old paint.

Here's a link to the place that does the dry ice cleaning.  I found them online so I'm going to call and ask for a quote tomorrow morning.
http://georgiadryiceblasting.com

Edited to add:  This brings up a question.  You guys who use soda blasting on your engines, do you allow them to soda blast the top of the cylinders and head to remove the old gasket material or is the aluminum material too soft for that?

[Stoli]

You'll need to prop the engine up so the studs aren't shouldering all the weight, or if you plan on replacing the studs, then remove them before you split the case.