Author Topic: Rusted Frame... What would you do?  (Read 8171 times)

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Offline Noddy78

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Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« on: October 02, 2014, 10:28:43 PM »
So, I've got a "small" rust problem in my frame, the PO bogged up the motor mount drain holes before painting it, so now it's basically rusted through the top of the bottom frame tubes, and obviously the motor mounts themselves:








Apart from "get a new frame" (which may not be a viable option given I'm in Tasmania), what would you do? My first thought is hacking off the whole motor mount sections and getting them re-made somehow (which I do't have the equipment of skills to do myself). Are there any other options you can think of?

Cheers!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 10:30:21 PM by Noddy78 »

Offline MoMo

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2014, 12:16:20 AM »
I had one worse than that,  replacing the frame was the only option.  Larry

Offline Noddy78

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2014, 02:09:47 AM »
New frame. Maybe Terry can still assist you with an early offer of getting a frame to you?

Yeah, new frame was about where I was getting to as well, I was just vaguely hoping someone might have a better idea! I'm really starting to regret not taking Terry up on his offer ! ;) And who knows what lay in store for my inside the engine, but then if it was all easy I wouldn't learn much. Maybe it's the Gods of Old Motorcycles telling me I need to learn how to build a frame too... this list is getting long...

Offline dave500

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2014, 02:30:15 AM »
how about repair sections cut out of a bent frame,postage to tassie wouldnt be too bad then?

Offline PeWe

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2014, 02:51:23 AM »
Why not buy a complete bike in good shape and use your existing as part bike?
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Noddy78

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 03:16:04 AM »
how about repair sections cut out of a bent frame,postage to tassie wouldnt be too bad then?

Yep, nice one! That could work.

Why not buy a complete bike in good shape and use your existing as part bike?

If only you'd seen the start of my build thread in its entirety you'd understand how funny that comment is...

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2014, 09:18:47 AM »
Maybe a crazy offer.........if your desperate......I am shipping a bulky package to South Australia ( CB750K1 ebay customer).  I have several spare frames and could cut the pieces you need and ship together..............or complete frame.  That customer would have to agree to forward the pieces to you or wherever your getting the welding completed, or the frame. You would have to pay for any extra shipping cost and enough to pay for a cutting blade.

Dennis in Wisconsin
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CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
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Offline P.abrera

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Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2014, 11:06:37 AM »
Dealt with the same problem myself. Spare frames just dont come easy in my part of the world...but skilled labor and ingenuity? we have in buckets We braced the frame extensively so alignment wouldnt shift, cut out the rotted portions, bent some new tube and slugged the ends before rewelding. Keeping things aligned and maintaning spacing was the tough part. 
I had the same problem area as your frame. We did the sheet metal portion one side at a time, cutting around the swingarm pivot, once that spacing and alignment was msintained, we cut out the rotted tube and replaced it with tubing of the same guage. Slug the joint with at least 1.5 inch on either end, drill the tubes and weld rosettes before full weld around the joint. ...youll need a skilled and experienced welder though.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 11:15:53 AM by P.abrera »

Offline dave500

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2014, 01:40:50 PM »
thats great work p.abrera.

Offline Garage_guy_chris

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2014, 06:06:30 PM »
Im just wondering what is the frame for? where did you find this bike, i live in Canada which is known for cold and ice, road salt and RUST and lots of it but i never had or heard of anyone with such rust problems in a 70's bike
1971 Cb450 Cafe  (on the road)
1974 Cb750 Restomod (on the road)

Offline MoMo

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2014, 06:15:32 PM »






Philly area   70k on a 74 750 :( :o....Larry

Offline Noddy78

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2014, 06:32:40 PM »
Maybe a crazy offer.........if your desperate......I am shipping a bulky package to South Australia ( CB750K1 ebay customer).  I have several spare frames and could cut the pieces you need and ship together.

Mate, that doesn't sound like a crazy offer at all, it sounds like a bloody excellent offer! Would you be happy to get in touch with your customer in SA and see if they'd be willing? If they are, then maybe we can look at what sections I need (probably easier/cheaper than the whole frame, and that way I also get to keep my frame number etc for rego purposes down here) and what sort of cost it would add to the package you're already sending (and how much you want for the parts and labour as well obviously)? Thanks heaps for the offer, very much appreciated.

we cut out the rotted tube and replaced it with tubing of the same guage.

Excellent solution there too, looks like a good option, Did you replace the motor mounts as well, or just the frame tubing?

Im just wondering what is the frame for? where did you find this bike

It's from a K2 I purchased it from a guy in Mount Gambier (in South Australia funnily enough), not particularly known for its snow fall and salted roads... I think it's basically just because he left it sitting for years with water with no where to go but through, pooled in the motor mounts. It was going to be used in the hardtail project in my sig (you might need to take the afternoon off to read the thread though... ;)).

Offline P.abrera

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Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 08:18:47 PM »
We replaced 2 sections/junctions of Tubes and a section of the pressed metal that supports the swingarm pivot. The motor mounts stayed as is. We cut around the pivot mount itself, one side at a time so technically the pivot itself stayed in place and never moved.

The solution of cutting out and replacing the whole section of motor mounts as a whole seems easier "on paper" but be very careful about maintaining alignment and spacing.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 08:27:05 PM by P.abrera »

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2014, 08:30:26 PM »






Philly area   70k on a 74 750 :( :o....Larry

Was that the "Red Rider" bike, Larry?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline P.abrera

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2014, 08:36:35 PM »

thats great work p.abrera.
Thanks mate. Had a hand from a welder who knew his stuff.


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Offline grcamna2

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2014, 09:12:28 PM »

thats great work p.abrera.
Thanks mate. Had a hand from a welder who knew his stuff.


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I've heard from an customer of mine who lived 6 months a year around Manila that they're a lot of quality repair/craftsman over there who like doing custom vehicle work,is this true?
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Offline Garage_guy_chris

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2014, 09:30:08 PM »
Interesting, I guess for a change my bike is a lucky one. I just had it sandblasted and it came out perfect!

I remember seeing this stuff a while back and this reminded me of it.  anybody used it? if you have did you do it before or after paint/powder?

http://www.eastwood.com/internal-frame-coating-w-spray-nozzle-qt.html

1971 Cb450 Cafe  (on the road)
1974 Cb750 Restomod (on the road)

Offline P.abrera

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Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2014, 09:34:43 PM »

thats great work p.abrera.
Thanks mate. Had a hand from a welder who knew his stuff.


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I've heard from an customer of mine who lived 6 months a year around Manila that they're a lot of quality repair/craftsman over there who like doing custom vehicle work,is this true?

Lotta skilled craftsmen doing "custom" jobs. A lot of it out of neccesity as spares arent easy here. You just need to guide them on the "aesthetics" part to get what you want out of them. A few up and coming bike builders too who ive been asking advice from. You might be surprised how much of the custom bike accesories out in the market are actually made here ...sad part is we cant buy them direct from manufacturer here.


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« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 09:39:03 PM by P.abrera »

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2014, 12:06:42 AM »

thats great work p.abrera.
Thanks mate. Had a hand from a welder who knew his stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've heard from an customer of mine who lived 6 months a year around Manila that they're a lot of quality repair/craftsman over there who like doing custom vehicle work,is this true?

Lotta skilled craftsmen doing "custom" jobs. A lot of it out of neccesity as spares arent easy here. You just need to guide them on the "aesthetics" part to get what you want out of them. A few up and coming bike builders too who ive been asking advice from. You might be surprised how much of the custom bike accesories out in the market are actually made here ...sad part is we cant buy them direct from manufacturer here.


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Why is that?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline PeWe

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2014, 03:18:29 AM »
All these corroded frames. Caused by a leaking battery?
My swingarm got drops of acid that penetrated the really god industrial 2k paint and caused corrosion. Not that deep though. Maybe an openeing in frame where acid can enter, then eating the frame from inside.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline P.abrera

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2014, 09:39:39 AM »


thats great work p.abrera.
Thanks mate. Had a hand from a welder who knew his stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've heard from an customer of mine who lived 6 months a year around Manila that they're a lot of quality repair/craftsman over there who like doing custom vehicle work,is this true?

Lotta skilled craftsmen doing "custom" jobs. A lot of it out of neccesity as spares arent easy here. You just need to guide them on the "aesthetics" part to get what you want out of them. A few up and coming bike builders too who ive been asking advice from. You might be surprised how much of the custom bike accesories out in the market are actually made here ...sad part is we cant buy them direct from manufacturer here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why is that?

Most have a non-disclosure aggreement. Cant even say theyre making stuff here, much less sell directly to locals.


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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2014, 10:19:58 AM »
Noddy78...............I will contact my customer............He bought a luggage rack.................

I will take a pic or 3 of a frame with suggested cut marks for your approval.  Give me a day or so as I have a few other things to accomplish.
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
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Offline eigenvector

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2014, 10:21:32 AM »
I don't see why you couldn't get a machinist or welder to repair that.  I don't even think it's a loaded component, more something to relieve the stress concentrations at the lugs.

Probably wouldn't even be a difficult job to do.
Rob
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2018 HD Softail Heritage
1979 CB750K Limited Edition
1977 CB550K
1984 CB700SC Nighthawk
1983 VF750S Sabre

Offline Don R

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2014, 01:47:48 PM »
The sad part is you are only seeing the rusted through areas. Much of the rest is probably badly rusted too. I bought an old front engined dragster once, my buddies said it's too old rusted on the inside and stressed. I didn't listen. We raced 3 times, I got a runner up at a big nostalgia race and the chassis failed on trailer during the drive home.
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Offline eigenvector

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2014, 01:57:36 PM »
I think you misunderstood me, but I'm not going to clarify - he has what he needs at this point it sounds like.
Rob
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1979 CB750K Limited Edition
1977 CB550K
1984 CB700SC Nighthawk
1983 VF750S Sabre

Offline MoMo

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2014, 03:09:13 PM »





Philly area   70k on a 74 750 :( :o....Larry

Was that the "Red Rider" bike, Larry?



Yes it is.   Still have it but have not ridden it this year. Having trouble with 4th gear so I got disappointed and cast it aside.  Don't ride the Golf Cart much either, have a new toy that most everyone on the forum seems to disparage.


I believe the problem is a Honda design flaw, that lower cross member is open from the welds at the brace.  Water accumulates  in the cross member and cannot drain because the opening is on the upside(right).  When the bike is on the side stand water runs to the left and stays there.  There is a drain opening but it is on the right(and usually gets clogged ...Larry

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2014, 04:52:44 PM »
Interesting, I guess for a change my bike is a lucky one. I just had it sandblasted and it came out perfect!

I remember seeing this stuff a while back and this reminded me of it.  anybody used it? if you have did you do it before or after paint/powder?

http://www.eastwood.com/internal-frame-coating-w-spray-nozzle-qt.html



I have, my frame scare details here, and yet another Hondaman knowledge gem

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126735.75

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2014, 07:23:16 PM »
Noddy..............I have confirmation to send frame parts and the rack to you.  Understand you will forward the rack to Adelaide.

I estimate the shipping to you will be about $65.  You will have some expense to ship the rack. The rack buyer is paying about 1/2 of the shipping to you. So lets say it will be $80 for my expenses and shipping.

I will try to cut large pieces so you will have minimal welding.  I'll make marks and take a pic.

Paypal works best..............northave@excel.net
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
'63 CL72 Project(s)
'66 CL77 Red
'67 Triumph T100C
'73 750K3 Owned since New
'77 750F2 Cafe Project
2020 ROYAL ENFIELD Himalayan

Offline Noddy78

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2014, 12:09:07 AM »
Dennis, you're a legend mate. I'm converting this one to a hardtail so I don't need the rear passenger peg and side stand mounts etc. Basically what I've marked below is what I'll need as a minimum (both sides), but if it fits, a bit of extra length would be great.



If that all looks doable, let me know and I'll sort out the cash to you. Are you sure I can't send you some extra for the actual parts? Surely $80 only really covers your postage and very minimal amount of your time?

Thanks mate, I really appreciate this, I think with a decent welding guy and the right bits we can save this one! Cheers again.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 12:19:30 AM by Noddy78 »

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2014, 05:30:33 AM »
Noddy, What will you use for a side stand w/o that left mount ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2014, 08:53:07 AM »
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2014, 08:54:13 AM »
I have thought seriously about using that east wood stuff as a preventative but I cant justify disassembling the whole bike for that.
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2014, 10:59:28 AM »
I have thought seriously about using that east wood stuff as a preventative but I cant justify disassembling the whole bike for that.

Can you get it into all the frame tubes w/o having to drill extra holes ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2014, 04:07:01 PM »
Noddy............your drawing and my mental vision are EQUAL 8) 8)

Any and all tips will go to my Salt-Flats account ;D
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
'63 CL72 Project(s)
'66 CL77 Red
'67 Triumph T100C
'73 750K3 Owned since New
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2020 ROYAL ENFIELD Himalayan

Offline Noddy78

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2014, 04:53:23 PM »
Noddy, What will you use for a side stand w/o that left mount ?

Pretty much what lostboy said!

Noddy............your drawing and my mental vision are EQUAL 8) 8)

Perfect! You have funds my friend.

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Rusted Frame... What would you do?
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2014, 05:04:40 AM »
I have thought seriously about using that east wood stuff as a preventative but I cant justify disassembling the whole bike for that.

Can you get it into all the frame tubes w/o having to drill extra holes ?
I doubt it. Thats why I havent done it yet.
1968 Honda Z50
1977 Honda CB550K
2018 Indian Scout