Author Topic: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice  (Read 4537 times)

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Online HondaMan

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2014, 11:22:05 PM »
Must have been a typo Hondaman. Just searching through your book on the carbs and it says that the K1 needle is K27201. That's what I have in their now.



Argh! You're right: I keep doing that! It is 27201...  :-[

I'll go back and fix that post. I did that last month to someone else, too.  :P
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 11:25:05 PM by HondaMan »
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Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2014, 11:58:19 PM »

Not sure of what brand the kit is but here is a pic of the packet.

I also have the 95 jets and the needles that came out of the carbies but I don't know if they are honda or not.

The kits came with 95, 110 and 125 jets and I just put the 95 ones out the kit in.

Any suggestions?

Well, that's too lean: use at least the #110 if your needles are too thick (likely are). The 125 jet would help a little bit, but this combination will make the curve incorrect, probably causing surging around 4000 RPM.

I'd suggest the Keihin needles above all: yours should be numbered "K27102", then use the #110 or #115 mainjet.


Thanks Hondaman. If my needles are K27201 then have I got the right carbs for the bike? Is there a way to identify the carbs?

Also a couple of my slides are a bit sticky. Is it ok to cut and polish these to get them running smoother?

Under the magnify glass the kit needles are heaps more pointy than the original ones and heaps different shape.

Pretty sure he meant 27201.  It depends on what the reason your slides are sticky.  If the slides are damaged IE from someone prying them up if they were stuck, polishing isn't going to fix that.  Also, what do you mean by "cut" in cut and polish.  The slides are chrome so if you mean cutting like a black compound I would say stay away from that.  If your chrome slides are so bad they need to be cut then you have bigger problems!

I just meant to polish them with metal polish. Gave it a go and they came up real nice. I think the arm was a bit out of whack cause a put a bit of pressure on it the opposite direction and it started sliding spot on. When I say catch I meant that worked fine until I screw pressure down on the lid and then when lifting up the slide it would get harder at the top of travel. I think all is good now.

Had a look at the old brass I took out. Should the idle jet have any markings? I was looking for number 40 but could not see anything anywhere. Not sure if they would be worth cleaning and putting back in.

Double checked float heights and all good there.

Can I use these jets?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Keihin-Main-Jet-Genuine-99101-393-OEM-Honda-Kawasaki-Suzuki-round-head-type-/281140543536?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4175484030

I have family that live close to there. It says CB750 k7-82 but measurements appear to be the same.
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline PeWe

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2014, 03:49:11 AM »
I used Mikuni mains in my K6 carbs back in the 80's. Wider "hat" and maybe slightly different thread but possible to use.
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Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
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CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
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K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
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Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline ekpent

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2014, 03:59:55 AM »
Yes stock Kehin idle jets are well marked with a number and a logo. I had some aftermarket slow jets once that were big enough to drive a train through compared to stockers.

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2014, 04:00:36 AM »
I think it would best if I get a back up set of carbies for parts or to do up and keep in the shelf.

Thanks PeWe

I shouldn't be kicking myself, it was a big job getting this thing up and going with a siezed engine after 20 years of sitting in a shed and being a house for a family of rats.

I'm sure there are heaps of others on this forum that have said "I just wanted to ride it but.....,,,,,."

I could have kept riding it but it just didn't feel right so I gotta get it right now.

Some amazing facts about this bike during the rebuild

It had no washers underneath all of the head nuts that go on the studs
It had no oil gallery plug in the oil path hole between the rotor and the rear sprocket
It was running no 95 main jets

A few real surprises since I started.
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2014, 04:01:45 AM »
Yes stock Kehin idle jets are well marked with a number and a logo. I had some aftermarket slow jets once that were big enough to drive a train through compared to stockers.
Yep add it too my shopping list!
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2014, 03:43:57 AM »
Well that was a really valuable learning curve for me today. Got the Keihin jets #110 and the slow idle jets #40 ordered from a company in Adelaide that stock all the original new Keihin, Mikuni and other carb brands (Show N Go Motorcycles).

The slow jets are not made anymore but they are replace by ones that are almost identical except 3mm longer. Originally they were 29mm and these are 32mm. They said that is what the CB guys are replacing with and it has no difference in performance. The non labelled ones in the bike were 28mm. Also the kit air screws are hollow in the middle with side holes. Thread is less as well.

There is heaps of difference with the air screws and springs. Different shape, thickness and length. I am putting back the originals because they are K stamped. Springs are different as well.

I am going to use the float valve seats and floats from the kit as I have had no problems with flooding or anything. Also the float valve seats had 2 different types in the bike both originals and non originals. Heaps of different in height hole dimensions, thickness and everything. The floats are toast.

Original needles back in. Heaps of difference in thickness and shape to the two needles. Also on the kit needles the circling is different and flops around because it's so loose.

So everything original bar the float valves and float valve seats.

I solemnly share never to buy another rubbish kit for a carby. Just posting the pics as a reference for people to have a look at if they ever want to go down the cheap kit road.

1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2014, 09:25:27 PM »
Well that was a really valuable learning curve for me today. Got the Keihin jets #110 and the slow idle jets #40 ordered from a company in Adelaide that stock all the original new Keihin, Mikuni and other carb brands (Show N Go Motorcycles).

The slow jets are not made anymore but they are replace by ones that are almost identical except 3mm longer. Originally they were 29mm and these are 32mm. They said that is what the CB guys are replacing with and it has no difference in performance. The non labelled ones in the bike were 28mm. Also the kit air screws are hollow in the middle with side holes. Thread is less as well.

There is heaps of difference with the air screws and springs. Different shape, thickness and length. I am putting back the originals because they are K stamped. Springs are different as well.

I am going to use the float valve seats and floats from the kit as I have had no problems with flooding or anything. Also the float valve seats had 2 different types in the bike both originals and non originals. Heaps of different in height hole dimensions, thickness and everything. The floats are toast.

Original needles back in. Heaps of difference in thickness and shape to the two needles. Also on the kit needles the circling is different and flops around because it's so loose.

So everything original bar the float valves and float valve seats.

I solemnly share never to buy another rubbish kit for a carby. Just posting the pics as a reference for people to have a look at if they ever want to go down the cheap kit road.



I've long been amazed at the carb parts that have appeared for the 750. Sometime during the 1990s the [in]famous Keyster parts started appearing, with things like needles that were 1/4"longer, and would jam in the needle jet, holding the slide partly open, which caused the idle mix to be so lean the bikes would not idle without the choke. Then they introduced their version of the idle air screws, which had a sideways hole drilled across the tip, but none in the tip, which doesn't even make sense: it either has to have the holey tip with the cross-drill, or none at all, to work. For a while in 2005-6 they made float bowl gaskets that dissolved when in contact with gas, which they replaced with a sandwiched version that delaminated instead, in 2007-8. In 2009-10 season they came out with their new, thicker needles that we see today: with the stock #105 mainjet these ran so lean the engines would not rev up past about 6000 RPM, at all. It did keep the sparkplugs cleaner...in 2011 they came out with the float valve that had springs so stiff that you had to set the float level to 24mm to get the bowls deep enough for the idle jets to stay wet. Those seem to be fading out, now, thankfully. The ones we are now seeing "Made in Japan" are sometimes marked Keyster, sometimes not, and have a somewhat softer float valve spring, stiff stiffer than OEM versions. I have had pretty good luck setting them in the 25mm float level range, with staggered floats (one at 24mm, one at 25mm) to help keep things loose. Honda did this with the K0-K1 carbs, quit doing it somewhere along the K3 or so: they usually had one set to 25mm and the other at 26mm heights.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2014, 12:24:44 AM »
HELP!

This just tops the end of a really crappy day! Took out the kit slow jets and put in the new Keihin ones that arrived in the post after work.

The end of one of the kit jets just snapped off in the hole. Good news is that it does not appear to be the threaded part that is in there. Looks like it snapped off at where the holes are drilled.

It must be caught or wedged against the side because my little metal pick will not bring it out. I am gutted.

Anyone have a suggestion that doesn't involve a bottle of scotch and a hammer?
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2014, 03:39:42 AM »
First try to screw a screw in it and pull it out with pliers.  If that fails, drill it out on drill press without damaging the thread.

Yeah, I know, words are cheap :)

Good luck!
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Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2014, 04:32:29 AM »
Thanks 70cb750, I spent an hour trying to get it out with a pick. No luck. Got your post and raced out and gave it a try but the screw went in and then strips out when I pull it out.

I put a new jet up against one of the &$&)@$& jets out of the kit and they are longer on the end. So I reckon I have actually screwed it down to far upon installation and its james in there. I'm gutted for the night and giving it a rest. Don't have a drill press so might take it to the carby shop tomorrow and see if they can help me.

Thanks for the advice though. I thought I was going to get a winner to start with on the screw idea.
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline ekpent

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2014, 04:46:43 AM »
A reverse drill bit may snag it enough to back it out.

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2014, 05:04:48 AM »
How about the thinnest smear of JB weld on the threads and let it sit overnight?
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Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2014, 05:20:24 AM »
I'll finish this glass of red and then go do it. Will let you know tomorrow if the red worked!
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2014, 05:21:20 AM »
Sorry I meant ' JB Weld worked'
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline ekpent

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2014, 05:24:20 AM »
The problem with the brass is it is so soft, especially that little thin wall you are working with. Putting in a screw can expand the outside and maybe make it harder to extract and or get a good bite with the screw.
  Here's hoping you get past this latest hurdle.

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2014, 05:33:07 AM »
Yeah i agree. JB doesn't work then pay $100 and see if I can save that carby with someone who does it for a living.
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1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2014, 05:58:16 AM »
JB is in.
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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2014, 06:21:39 PM »
I had something like this a few years back, too: it was corroded in the hole and snapped off when I took out the jet. I got some real fine piano wire (stiff!) and bent the barest end over to a hook, and picked it out.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2014, 02:39:32 AM »
Yep that carb is now toast.

The jet end is so far in it gone. JB didn't work and the carb guy won't touch them.

Bugger!
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline harisuluv

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2014, 03:25:52 PM »
The part that broke off doesn't even look like the threaded part.  Maybe some heat would help.  It's not the end of the world though, what is the casting number on the carb?  You can do a quick search where it is if you don't know where to find it.  I might have a body for you, but I think it's not too hard to get that out.

Offline Don R

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2014, 09:07:15 PM »
 Spray oil or air through the passage from the opposite direction? might shoot it out.
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Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2014, 09:28:00 PM »
The part that broke off doesn't even look like the threaded part.  Maybe some heat would help.  It's not the end of the world though, what is the casting number on the carb?  You can do a quick search where it is if you don't know where to find it.  I might have a body for you, but I think it's not too hard to get that out.

Trying to keep my chin up Harisulov. Carbs are not my strong point unlike yours. Your right its not the threaded part that is in there it is the end bit. The ends are longer than the original one so I am thinking that it has screwed down into the hole in the base and jamed. I have tried the JB, the drill press, the Inox and air through the passages. I have go lots of little bits of brass come out but with a magnify glass i can still see a rim of brass around the very bottom of that passage so I know that staff is still there.

I think I have done damage to the inside with the metal pick trying to get a hold of the brass but I am not 100% sure. Its difficult to see down into that hole with the light and such. To make matters worse I was comparing the broken jet to another one from the kit that I took out and the very tip of that one is broken off as well. I cant see it anywhere in the other holes but once again its hard to see. I am worried that the more I try and get this thing out the more damage I am doing and then the bike will run like gargage because I still have brass in it somewhere.

I guy interstate has a complete carb set for sale but they are stamped 657B. My carbs are stamped with 7A J1. The carb that is the problem is the one connecting to cylinder 2. I was thinking about gett the other set and putting all my good brassware in that but with a different stamp number are they completely diffent carbs? They have been soda blasted and ultrasonic cleaned but set but missing one float one balancing/ synchronising screw and one bowl drain plug and one float bowl gasket and rubber fork boots, pilot screws have been soldered for running air pods I think , everything else is there ie mounting bracket lifting prongs.

Any suggestions? Here is a pic of my carbs and the 67B carbs I could get (but poor quality picture)
1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2014, 02:24:41 AM »
So now I am getting really confused. When looking for a carb body on the net if I look for a 657A inside left carb body they look like the one stamped below with 657A LF but mine is stamped with just 7A J1
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1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)

Offline cakey

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Re: Bogging, surging, starving not sure what the word is? Need advice
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2014, 04:34:59 AM »
Bit hard to see but it's still in there. There is a gold rim around the edge of the hole.

1971 CB750 K1 (restored)
1975 GL1000 Goldwing (restored)