Topic: to brat or not to brat

[jvandyke]

I've been enjoying my '72 CB500 for 5 years or so.  Been in the family since '73.  It was meticulously cared for until my uncle died, then my bro-in-law got it and let it go to #%$$.  He finally gave it to me and I brought it back.  The tank was scratched, dented and faded to the point primer was showing though.  I almost kept the patina look decided at the time to do a respray.  Sometimes regret it.  Relocated rear blinkers to allow saddle bags. Chrome was all pitted but cleaned up.  It's a 10 footer.  Last winter it got some damage during storage, two tank dents.  Needs tires again. I'm bored with it and it has never been a comfortable bike for me anyway. Now  I'm thinking of doing a brat style.
I've got myself 90% convinced this one isn't really nice enough to preserve.  It needs a total restoration and it never had stock pipes since '73 anyway.  So, what do you think?  I'm I committing sacrilege to brat this thing?

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I'm not sold on the brat seat.  It doesn't lend itself to long rides, given the level of seat padding.  What is the motivation for that style of change?

[jvandyke]

drop the bars, the area between my shoulder blades kills after only 20 miles or so, I've ridden several hundred at a time but even so, it's not comfortable stock so why not tinker?  Love the brat look so it's mostly just something to do and the look, love the look although I'm not one to put form too far over function, I love the look of the whole brat thing.  Was thinking clip ons, ditch the instruments or lower them or something, slab seat, rear fender off and as little frame cutting as possible, over size Firestones, would probably keep the side covers/air box/battery because I don't like that naked center look and it seems so much work to empty it out, all at expense of function.  It would all be reversible if the rear frame doesn't get hacked too badly (was thinking just ditching the one cross piece the fender bolts to, cut that off an if needed it could be welded back on) don't know anything for sure, just throwing ideas around in my head and looking for input.
The pipes that are on it are killer.  Loud as heck but sounds amazingly good, rusty and pitted so black out or wrap 'em I guess.  Design of the cross over in front of the engine is such that the fender smashes the pipe on suspension compression, constant dent in fender.
Bike had 6700 miles on it when I got it and now has about 13,000.  Stupid low miles but unfortunately it corroded from sitting.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Superbike bars and rearsets moving your feet back just a bit. Try that posture out first to determine if it's more comfortable.

Upgrade and service your front forks and rear shocks. These need to be done regardless of the style, and you may just find a new lease on life while doing it.

By the way, dump the bags 

I like Cal's suggestions for changes.  Superbike bars, Euro bars or even drag bars.  Maybe a cool but comfortable Renthal suberbike fat bar.  Suspension service and new rear shocks are a must for safety and handling.  Replace all the bearings on steering head and wheels, and new bushings for the swingarm, too.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Oh god, please no Firestones!  I guess they have a certain look, but they have absolutely NO cornering traction.  Those may be the most unsafe tires made.

[jvandyke]

Good ideas.
I know the bags aren't helping the look much but I actually carry stuff!

[rb550four]

Does this  mean it won't be a flat black, frame cut, brat?
not that all brats are flat black.
What do you do with this bike ? Daily rider? Saturday ride? Since your fishing for ideas...
The questions, my thinking is ... will these modifications be made to enhance the riding experience ? or Are these modifications meant to just look cool when parked?
Sounds like stupid questions right, but, modifications can dictate use, rideability, comfort    and overall enjoyment.  and not always in a positive way.
   Seen many projects  for sale over the years that had no basic direction, owner has no idea what he wants, messes up everything , then sells the bike unfinished saying he's tired of it, no time , or got a new bike. He could have sold it for more $ before he messed it up  and put the money towards a bike he really wants.
  Brat or no brat I don't understand the intent of this thread and I am asking for clarification...What is it that you want from and expect from this machine that you are not happy with? Will modifications make it what you want it to be? Would you be happier with a different machine? Will this be worth your time and effort? These are questions that you must answer to find direction unless you have a clear vision.
 Everyone loves to see a thought out project that can be completed and will be happy to watch, but most will have trouble with a non directional hack job no matter what tires are on it.     need clarification please.

[Djfob]

Love the look of brat bikes. If done right it's just clean and simple

[jvandyke]

need clarification please.

I had written a LONG introspective but no one wants to read that.
No other bikes toot my horn (well, nothing I can afford anyway).
I like this bike but I can't tolerate it's current state.
I've decided it's not nice enough (or comfortable enough) to worry about preserving so I'm going for a brattish thing.
This is what I'd like to emulate.  At least it's the current frontrunner.
http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2014/03/22/77-honda-cb500-la-bambina.html#.VEZ4kIvF95A

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

need clarification please.

I had written a LONG introspective but no one wants to read that.
No other bikes toot my horn (well, nothing I can afford anyway).
I like this bike but I can't tolerate it's current state.
I've decided it's not nice enough (or comfortable enough) to worry about preserving so I'm going for a brattish thing.
This is what I'd like to emulate.  At least it's the current frontrunner.
http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2014/03/22/77-honda-cb500-la-bambina.html#.VEZ4kIvF95A

I like the practicality of the seat on the inspiration bike more than most brat seats -- it has more padding than a typical brat bike.  Many of the brats mount the seats so tight to the frame rails that they would seem to cause a bit of chaffing.  I like the look of the thinner seat and the allowance to ride 2 up, but I'm not so sure about the comfort.  To each his own, right?

[rb550four]

Thank you for clarifying. I didn't know that you had an inspiration bike. That's as good as a plan. Why didn't you show us this in the first place? We love pictures.
  So the question isn't what you want to do, and it isn't why you would want to do it. So, the brat or not to brat question might be that you are questioning your ability to pull this off? Is that it? Will this be your first project?
 There are tons of members here who have had no experience working on cycles when they first got here, presented their first project , built a following, had questions-got answers, learned along the way, finished the project and had a great time doing it.   
 Many have done numerous projects  since the first one, help the new members  here now.
 So if this is your first real hands on build and you are unsure of how much you know and how much you think you can do, don't worry ,you're in the right place then.
  This looks like it'll be a fun project .   BRAT   .  and plenty of picks please.

[faux fiddy]

need clarification please.

This is what I'd like to emulate.  At least it's the current frontrunner.
http://www.pipeburn.com/home/2014/03/22/77-honda-cb500-la-bambina.html#.VEZ4kIvF95A

That bike would look better with your tank on it.

[jvandyke]

motivation for original post was seeking approval I guess, I feel like most brats/cafes/bobbers and the like started life as nearly dead basket cases so no loss.  I think I've convinced myself that I can do this and the vintage bike world won't crucify me for it.
I like the look of La Bambina, almost looks like an old Vincent with that chrome rear hugger fender, the seat treatment and overall look is appealing.  I will try to keep the stock front fender though, copy his work on the rear, will keep the center under the seat stock, with air box and battery and side covers, maybe do something a little different with the tailight, will likely go for more polish on engine bits and less paint, my pipes will stay chrome but will be wrapped from the manifold back to silencer portion, that's where I am currently.
Was looking yesterday at some forward controls, that might really mix it up, okay, thanks guys, time to ponder and plan and maybe start a build thread!

[jvandyke]

Here's a video I shot the other day.  Thoughts on general over all condition welcomed.  Still 90% sure I'm going to brat it out but, well, hesitating still.  Pardon the dust.

Thoughts on those pipes?  Kinda cool sound really good but way too dang loud.  They have baffles but they don't do much obviously, wondering about re-baffeling to shut it up a little. Don't mind the turtle, it's got LEDs, I'm in a club, what can I say, we're weird.

[seanbarney41]

wack the rear frame, bolt on broken skateboard for seat, remove all the cool unique parts only to be replaced by cheap aftermarket junk that anyone can buy from Parts Unlimited, start body work on tank only to realize that you have no idea how to paint so it gets left bare metal, then hang around here trying to figure out how to make the damn thing run, brat trend finally dies 8 months from now and you are left with a motorized piece of garbage 

[jvandyke]

wack the rear frame, bolt on broken skateboard for seat, remove all the cool unique parts only to be replaced by cheap aftermarket junk that anyone can buy from Parts Unlimited, start body work on tank only to realize that you have no idea how to paint so it gets left bare metal, then hang around here trying to figure out how to make the damn thing run, brat trend finally dies 8 months from now and you are left with a motorized piece of garbage 

thus my hesitation, I hear ya, still it isn't popping my cork as is so something fun but reversible seems plausible to me.

[seanbarney41]

just went back and read the whole thread...sounds like your ideas are not so bad, but I hate your inspiration pic.  ...just give that thing some much needed love in the form of a carb rebuild and some new top end gaskets and a good tune up.  Once the bike is working good and it is more fun to ride, it's easier to decide what you like about the bike, then you can make intelligent choices about what areas need improvement.  Huge teardowns, frame off restorations, and drastic chopping are unnecesary and have killed off more of these bikes than anything else.  Most of these builds you see on the web don't have 1000 miles on 'em...just photographed and hauled around to a show or two and then are forgotten about.

[rb550four]

Saw the video. I thought it may have been in rougher condition. That is the condition I always hope to find a 500/550 in, but never that lucky.

[jvandyke]

Saw the video. I thought it may have been in rougher condition. That is the condition I always hope to find a 500/550 in, but never that lucky.

bear in mind the tank and covers were resprayed (by me, a lovely "bronze") but need work again, I've done lots of clean up and touch up, this isn't "untouched" by any means,
Thinking clip on bars, new seat, lose fenders, billet triple tree top.  All reversible. Can always go deeper, can't always back up, right?  Been watching Hackaweek on youtube and now I want to take the wheels all the way down and polish the spokes, These sure look nice all purdied up, can't elbow grease pitted chrome back to good though.  Mechanics have been gone through (5 years ago), full tune up and carb rebuild (but obviously needs revisiting)  brakes, all that rot, been tearing around on it for four summers, runs and drives very nice, just intolerable comfort and getting too ugly
Thanks for input.

What's the story on those pipes?  "rare"? desirable?  love the look, love the sound, too loud and too corroded, design is such the front fender hits pipe on compression, maybe stiffer springs would help that?

[seanbarney41]

clip ons are good but not without rearsets, the stock cb550k seat is one of the best looking designs ever imo, bikes that have no fenders look like they are missing parts and that the owner understands little about how a motorcycle works, billet triple is expensive and not as striking as the stock one polished, your rims would look fine after a good treatment  of 0000 steel wool and wd40 and some new spokes and a hub polish would just be beautiful...

those pipes look good on choppers and that's about it.  Too short for good performance, they are very common 70's/80's cheap aftermarket.  I have three similar sets I have discarded hanging from the rafters of my garage and no one has offered to pay money for them despite hauling them to numerous swap meets and posting here.  I agree they do sound cool and are too loud for even a medium length ride. 

Get all your mechanicals working tip top and keep it clean.  You will be surprised how many admire your bike and how proud of it you are.  Hang out here and when members get rid of nice parts for cheap, snatch 'em up for incremental improvements.  Longtime member just sold a very rare and exotic custom set of big bore 550 pistons for basically half the cost to reproduce.  Stuff like that happens around here quite often...

[seanbarney41]

need saddlebags?  hunt down a set of Shoei hard bags and paint to match your bike.

[jvandyke]

Coming along.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I read through your thread again.  It IS your bike and your choice, but consider this.  I have never seen anyone comment about how much they ride their brat style bike.  Most of them are guys who are more into the look of the bike, but complain about sliding backwards on the seat (because it is too firm to hold their ass) and the lack of padding.  Cool looking, yes.  Poseur, yes/maybe.  Just try to make it reversible if you don't like the actual function of the seat.  Just my $0.02. 

I don't want to rain on your parade.  Really.  If you can make your seat reversible, you'll be able to change your bike again when the brat trend fades, which it kind of already has.  Trackers are the new it bike.

[jvandyke]

I'm not doing a slab seat it will be padded, the bike was uncomfortable as a stocker.  Keeping all the parts and just a few welds away from going back but I don't see it happening.  As for trends I don't give a flying %*^# what its trendy, never have, never will, I like it, I like doing the work.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Well said Cal. A lot less #$%*y than my post and more constructive.