Author Topic: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages  (Read 3832 times)

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Markcb750

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2014, 03:31:10 AM »

I'm unsure of what or where you derive your perspective, but I've never seen nor heard in the US of a "religious belief, that who one loves should be controlled by a government" ever proffered. Again, I'd describe much of this as revisionist history.




I guess the Defense of Marriage Act, tossing homosexuals out of the military, sodomy laws, etc. are where I derived my revisionist version of history...

Or am I mistaken and these are all laws that come from a rational analysis facts and implemented to protect us all from serious harm?

Offline calj737

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2014, 04:18:29 AM »
As I said, conflation for your argument.

Sodomy laws were invoked and punishable for any hetero or homo sexual act. This was due to it being considered an unnatural sexual act not a religious effront.

The Defense of Marriage Adt was signed by Clinton in 1996. And you likely voted for him. And the "will of the land" was an overwhelming percentage of support for enacting it. So is it/was it about constitutionality or is it now, politically motivated by a far more liberal administration? Or is it something else still? Like political "evolution" to quote Hillary, Barack and Crazy Uncle Joe? Very fashionable now to be pro-homosexual and transgender, etc.... I say, believe what you believe, and live and let live.

"Tossing homosexuals out of the military" was due to creating a hetero sexual environment to avoid distraction or sexual misconduct. Since at the time, women were not allowed in forward troop assignments, a single hetero environment was considered a more stable emotional environment for combat and obedience. Now, with women and homosexuals in the military, there are far greater occurrences of sexual misconduct by harrasers, rapists, and oppressors than before. Maybe at the time is was myopic, but it certainly heavily restricted behaviour that is now rampant and problematic. By the way, I'm okay with women and homosexuals in combat. They pay taxes, they are citizens, let it be their choice.

Your comment about Jefferson and the first line of the Constitution is incorrectly contrived. "We the people..." Had nothing at all to do with the populus' disposition towards religious belief or natural order, it had only to do with specifically avowing to solidarity of the populus to the following laws and tenets.

Understand, the Declaration of Independence was to inform England that the citizens of the colonies no longer accepted rule by a foreign monarch and that they themselves were invoking "self-rule by equal representation". Parsing the first line to an anti- post is inaccurate. Instead, the right to self-govern by duly elected representatives of the "people" was deemed an inalienable right. The were among the first inhabitants to create a completely new system of government with this model. That is why it took nearly 13 years from the D/I to sign the Constitution, then another 4 plus years to have it fully ratified by all states.

There was never any attempt to enforce religious practice onto the populous then or now. Nor was there an overt effort to denounce the source of these "rights and liberties" as not being bestowed by inalienable province.

And for anyone that does not know the meaning of that word, it means bestowed by God and not within the power of man. Now, you don't have to believe in God, Buddha, Allah, or Ra to be the beneficiary of these rights, as the Constitutin so adeptly limited government from oppressing the population with respect to religious liberty, you know freedom of religion. And if yours is "non-religion or Dogma ate my Karma, or evolution, or whatever", then that is guaranteed by the authors and executors of the Constituion. And all because of inalienable rights.

It may not be the belief system for many today, but it was unequivocally the belief system of the "architects" of our freedom. And still serves everyone exceptionally well that they held these beliefs because the constitutionally defined limits of power to the government are exactly what is being redressed by the same sex marriage proponents. And good for them!
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Markcb750

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2014, 07:48:33 AM »
I believe you miss-read my statement-"the first line of the First Amendment", so we are out of sync.  There certainly has been successful attempts to force religious practice on the populous just look at our money, and read the pledge of allegiance.  I have read the arguments that are made to cover the use of god in these context, as a person who has come to understand the unlikely reality of a creator as promulgated by the three principle middle eastern mythologies, I am amused and wishful that someday this need to proclaim belief to assure ones own favorable place in the religious world view will dissipate.

 
I did not vote for Clinton, not once, so your basis for disliking me or my interpretation of what the constitution means is founded on an incorrect assumption not evidence, you have jumped to a conclusion.

Sodomy laws could be turned against heterosexuals,  and in fact they where very often selectively enforced on hetero people of color, just as drug laws are today. Their primary use was against Homosexuals, it was only after federal judges rightfully concluded that this was a poor set of laws did they begin to be struck down.


The military/government thought they where creating an atmosphere without sexual distractions, turns out they were biased, perhaps by the spiritual; leaders they chose, perhaps by a freaky uncle, who knows.  nothing in evidence today indicates the fears of buggery in the bunker have in fact turned out to be true.  I do not doubt there will be gays being busted for sex on the job, just as heterosexuals have been & will be, this is just humans being humans.

I do not doubt the Christian belief system of the majority of the founding fathers, as I said the amazing thing is the First Amendment.   I am sure the Protestants in the group went along because they understood  how the Anglican and Catholic religions had embedded themselves in European government resulting in  their persecution. But the first Amendment doctrine that has developed keeps the likes of Pat Robertson from throwing the likes of me into prison for stating my unbelief.  I can't help but think this is a good thing.

I would love to meet you at a pub and discuss these issues, I do enjoy a good discussion about the nature of things.  But on a SOHC website, this gets too boring.  And my acquaintance DHall  already thinks I might be off kilt a little due to my understanding of how we move thru the universe and celebrating the trillions of miles we have moved from one New Years Day to the next.  My position on same sex marriage probably is not helping him think I am not just a little of kilt either.   Ha!

« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 09:36:51 AM by Markcb750 »

Offline calj737

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2014, 08:08:01 AM »
I'd welcome the chance to meet anyone anywhere to discuss anything motorcycle, theology or financial, or whatever. I'm an advocate for dialogue especially when it contributes to tolerance of dissenting perspectives.

I think I'm just up the road from you, so we should endeavor to put hands together and share a beverage. Fear not, I never carry a Bible or have an NRA tattoo on my forehead.

Cheers-
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline demon78

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2014, 08:53:33 AM »
As to the comment about gays and women in the military if my country is attacked I expect all citizens to pick up their muskets and defend the country man, woman, children, gay, christian, muslim, right, left, black, brown, white, blue, green, whatever, so if women want equality " this is a magazine, stripper clip, it goes there that is the cocking handle/lever thats the trigger point it like so and squeeze the trigger. so on and so forth.
Bill the demon.

Offline dhall57

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2014, 09:28:42 AM »
Dang guys I'm just a country boy from NC with a HS education. Using all these big words I can't pronounce let alone spell. I bet you didn't have to use the spell check function once ;D  Y'all are getting into this deep and way over my pay scale. Talking about this law that law, this amendment that amendment, the marriage act, sodomy laws, what really did Thomas Jefferson believe in etc, etc, etc, and some how Bill (I did not have sex with that women only my white owl did) Clinton got into this ::) and on top of that another member here brought Marcia Brady into this conversation. What the @%$%. But hey it's all good and it's one thing I know we can all come to agreement on and that is WE ALL LOVE RIDING SOHC4 HONDA'S I'm done ;)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 09:33:55 AM by dhall57 »
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Markcb750

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2014, 09:42:44 AM »
 I have passed thru Richmond three times this year!

Only once did I have a Scooter with me though, on our way to Williamsburg for a 4 day ride with friends from NY.

A Blue ridge ride would seem in order!

It's all good!

Offline dhall57

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2014, 09:54:45 AM »
Hey Mark, your right it's all good ;) Got your K6 running top notch! I've been up to the BRP once on my 6 and once on the GL1000 Wang. Both bikes did fine but I have a admit I was a little more comfortable the the GW ;D
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 10:06:32 AM by dhall57 »
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Offline calj737

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2014, 10:19:06 AM »
You came thru richmond and didn't stop past!?!?!? For shame! Where's your manners, young man!
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2014, 10:22:29 AM »
I don't buy the "simple country boy" shtick. ::)  What was the reason for starting a thread like this in the first place?  Maybe get a little gay bashing going to make you feel better?  Then you start getting some heat and now you want to bail out and change the subject.  Maybe you should get out into the world a bit...it's big, it's complex, full of differences and variation.  Some good, some bad but often interesting.  One thing it is not is "simple".
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 10:44:05 AM by srust58 »

Offline calj737

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2014, 11:06:20 AM »
When your limb down off your pedestal srust, I think you'll read the levity dhal intended in his latest reply.

And what would you possibly know about being a "simple country boy"? In that lifestyle and culture, things are pretty simple. Be good to others, contribute to society, and pay your respects. Family, country and "Deity". Pretty simple really.

It may be a complex, big world out there, doesn't mean it's worth exchanging it if you're happy in your own little town.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline dhall57

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2014, 02:12:40 PM »
Drop your self down a few gears and get out of the red line srust. If you need to go back and read my first and second post you'll see I've said how I feel. It's to the point and in not many words, just short and sweet. So why do I need to say anything else and keep on reposting and reposting, I don't.  Honestly a few replies here I found humorous and made me chuckle a little bit only because of the effort and time I know it took them get all that info together and than the time to type it all down here. It made me think of being back in HS and writing a term paper for history class. They would all got A+ no doubt about it ;D I liked some of the nice big show offie and, hard to pronounce words for me anyway, very nice but doesn't impress me a bit I'm sorry. You call it changing the subject srust but these last 3 or 4 lines here starting with honestly is what led me to say what I did on my 3rd posting. That was it I was done I had nothing else to say on the subject of this thread until you spoke up. So in your opinion you see this as you call it bailing out because of things heating up a bit. But guess what your wrong, but that's your opinion and everyone is intiltled to their opinion right. Last but definitely not least is why I started this thread. Simple I was frustrated and blowing off a little steam in what I believe in. I've lived in this State all my life(58 years) and many, many things have changed in that time. Just like everywhere in this country and in your state to. Two years ago as citizens of NC we were ask to go to the polls and vote either for or against same sex marriages. You know how I voted and the majority of other voters at the time agreed with me. So in NC marriage was still consider between a man and women only and then a week or so ago a judge decided to over rule the voters and citizens of the State and make it legal for same sexes to marry. So if this is a sign of things to come why bother to vote if a judge or someone else with some type of authority can take it upon him or her self to change it without having another vote of some type. If this had happened and  voters had spoke and the vote went the way of legalizing same sex marriages that would still not change my opinion about it and seeing it as wrong. But it would make it a little easier to except it because the people had spoke. I hadn't talked this much in years.

And I think I get out in my world plenty enough, but thanks for you concern and my well being though ;)

« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 02:21:36 PM by dhall57 »
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Offline calj737

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2014, 02:21:51 PM »
Eloquently put, Dhal. Marcia would be proud!
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline dhall57

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2014, 02:27:12 PM »
Eloquently put, Dhal. Marcia would be proud!
Eloquently put, Dhal. Marcia would be proud!
Thank you sir.
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1973 CB350G- project bike
1974 CB750K4-project bike
1974 CB750K4
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1977 GL1000
1997 Harley Wideglide

Markcb750

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2014, 04:05:07 PM »
Hi Dhall

My K6 runs great since I put an unmolested by PO set of Carbs from a 750F0.  Still tosses some oil out the head gasket, but if I baby it a little it does not leak much.

I ride my 82 900F more now, 100 miles today despite working 6 hours :)

We spent thee days on the BRP last fall It was a great break.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 09:33:39 AM by Markcb750 »

Offline faux fiddy

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Re: Judge in NC over rules majority vote that bans same sex marriages
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2014, 04:34:04 AM »
Maybe the don't ask don't tell should be changed to mandatory service for gays.  After all, gihadists are not at all  tolerant of gays, so they should want to join up and serve the country that affords them this freedom.

I hope that was tongue in cheek Fiddy, because if you actually think there are no gays in the military or gay people wouldn't defend their freedom then you've been living in denial or don't have a clue, sexual preference doesn't make anyone morally different...
Oh and its their right, your country affords them nothing, I suppose you think their are no gay Muslims as well...? There are gay people in every walk of life, if you think otherwise you are very naive...

Oh yeah, bite mark and blood all over the tounge, but pragmatic, too.  And I know there are gays in the military, and I would guess a percentage similar to the civilian population whether of not they are in the closet.

When my Dad was in Europe  the  M.P's were  looking for a big Jewish kid from the neighborhood who Joined up to fight Nazi's  underage.  Department of the Army didn't jive with it, but he did.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 04:36:34 AM by faux fiddy »
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