Author Topic: Fork Upgrade Options  (Read 6561 times)

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Offline jaguar

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Fork Upgrade Options
« on: October 24, 2014, 04:12:07 AM »
I'm looking for ideas and options for the front end of my seeley.
Had originally figured I would run a GL1000 front end.
Car seems out of the bad on that swap, parts are harder to find and way more expensive then I seem to remember.

I can't think of any other swap that is that simple and easy.
Is there one?

Another swap that offers a lot of "bang for the buck"?

Mostly just looking for options and information to make a decision on what front end to run.

Thanks very much.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 04:58:27 AM »
CBR600RR?  I know All Balls sells a bearing set for this conversion.

Offline MidnightLamp

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 09:02:56 AM »
Nearly any DOHC front end?
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'69 CB350 - Racer
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Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 12:05:26 PM »
Not sure if I want to go down the CBR route.
Would prefer to keep a wire wheel, or more period mag (lesters)
To often the modern front ends just look like overkill, and I have yet to see many builds that go through the math to make them work properly.

Also my frame is set up for a rear drum so that limits my wheel choices.

Was mostly just spitballing.  probably should just pony up the few bucks and run a GL.
Im just being cheap

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 12:12:07 PM »
Take a look at my R6 fork swap.
With a little effort it can look the part and outperform.

Cheers
fJ
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Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2014, 12:49:12 PM »
Whats involved in that? 
what years?

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 01:02:56 PM »
Whats involved in that? 
what years?

Check my build thread.
Link at bottom of post.
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Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 01:14:46 PM »
Will do
Thanks

Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 01:19:47 PM »
Wanta make me a "kit"?

Cool upgrade, but I don't think that amount of machining is in the cards right now.

Offline Justind97

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 02:43:44 PM »
I have a GL1000 front end for sale.  Everything included, even an aluminum rim with callipers and master.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-motorcycle-parts-accessories/ottawa/1976-honda-gl1000-front-end/1008812763?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

+ shipping of course

Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2014, 03:25:59 PM »
Yeah that's that new price point I was trying to avoid.

Offline BPellerine

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2014, 04:02:25 PM »
hey jag I think if you look around you will find gl stuff cheap,I am in Canada so shipping would be an issue but a friend has scrapped a few gls.seebee 750 on here.bill
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2014, 04:13:57 PM »
Yeah that's that new price point I was trying to avoid.
Get used to it, as these bikes and conversions get more popular, don't expect the prices to remain the same, thats a good deal, Forks, complete brakes, complete aluminum wheel and both triples..thats really not that expensive at all... and its bolt on...
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Offline calj737

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2014, 04:28:04 PM »
At that price it ought to be listed as Free-hundred! That's less than the cost of a Cognito Hub for Pete's Sake,

Dude, you ought to grab that if you are genuinely interested in upgrading, you won't find a better deal that's complete and bolt-on.
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2014, 05:54:23 PM »
At that price it ought to be listed as Free-hundred!

Classic!  ;D
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2014, 06:04:35 PM »
Jag...........The GL1000 is a good choice and adds beef to the front...................I really like the feel on my Classic Bonneville Racer build..............However; you could stay with 35mm tubes and switch to XL350 legs to get the very strong 4-stud end-caps. A few have been used on CR750 builds.
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Offline slikwilli420

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2014, 06:32:40 PM »
Depends on if you like the modern or vintage look. I went all out on a Betor swap with custom triples and new calipers but was after a specific look. Figure out what look you want without going backwards on performance and consider adjusting your budget for anything other than that very nice GL swap for sale.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

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Offline 754

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2014, 07:32:25 PM »
If you don't want to spend money on it, just dual disc itand be period correct...
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Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2014, 09:59:31 PM »
I know all of this stuff isn't semi free any more.
Wasn't an insult or anything.

Just me being grumpy.

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2014, 11:22:02 PM »
If you can get the gl front end with all working good brake parts, 3 hundo is ok, rebuilding all that brake stuff gets pricey
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline 01Thomas

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2014, 03:01:57 PM »
I'll be starting my Seeley Honda 750F rebuild very soon (got a tax refund last week!). I've done some 40 000 hard km's on it with the fairly standard (*1) CB750F forks and I was quite happy with them. They don't compare to the USDs on my YZF750 but I never had reason to complain either. So I'm sticking with them.

(*1): standard except for the progressively wound springs that is.
1971 Honda CB750 Four K1 [Engine: CB750E-1113521 / Frame: CB750-1113838]
1977 Seeley Honda CB750F (F1) [Engine: CB750E-2551214 / Frame No: SH7-655F]

'96 Yamaha YZF750SP & '81 Moto Guzzi SP1000 & '80 Moto Guzzi 850 LeMans II & '82 Bimota KB-3 [Frame No 49] & '66 Ducati 50 SL/1 & '53 Miele K-50 & '38 Miele 98

Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2014, 03:40:05 PM »
I'll be starting my Seeley Honda 750F rebuild very soon (got a tax refund last week!). I've done some 40 000 hard km's on it with the fairly standard (*1) CB750F forks and I was quite happy with them. They don't compare to the USDs on my YZF750 but I never had reason to complain either. So I'm sticking with them.

(*1): standard except for the progressively wound springs that is.

Pictures of the bike?

Offline 01Thomas

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2014, 09:24:33 AM »
Here you are. I stopped riding it when it started smoking some 10 years ago. But the Bimota is almost sorted and I use a car to commute so now the time has come... I've already started the strip-down.
1971 Honda CB750 Four K1 [Engine: CB750E-1113521 / Frame: CB750-1113838]
1977 Seeley Honda CB750F (F1) [Engine: CB750E-2551214 / Frame No: SH7-655F]

'96 Yamaha YZF750SP & '81 Moto Guzzi SP1000 & '80 Moto Guzzi 850 LeMans II & '82 Bimota KB-3 [Frame No 49] & '66 Ducati 50 SL/1 & '53 Miele K-50 & '38 Miele 98

Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2014, 10:06:46 AM »
Super cool!

Ive been trying to check out as many pictures of these bikes as I can.
Still learning a lot and looking for more info all the time.


Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2014, 10:30:05 AM »
quick tip, use the bearing kit code as a way to check compatibility with other models, same kit bearing = bolt on, or sort off....




Offline 01Thomas

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2014, 11:54:33 AM »
Jaguar, you need to visit Axel's Satanic Mechanic site at http://www.satanicmechanic.org/   
You'll find a lot more info on CB750 SOHC frame kits by specialists there.
1971 Honda CB750 Four K1 [Engine: CB750E-1113521 / Frame: CB750-1113838]
1977 Seeley Honda CB750F (F1) [Engine: CB750E-2551214 / Frame No: SH7-655F]

'96 Yamaha YZF750SP & '81 Moto Guzzi SP1000 & '80 Moto Guzzi 850 LeMans II & '82 Bimota KB-3 [Frame No 49] & '66 Ducati 50 SL/1 & '53 Miele K-50 & '38 Miele 98

Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2014, 12:07:22 PM »
I have been there.
Sad that it is no longer active.
Wanted to add mine to the list.

Offline MidnightLamp

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2014, 12:10:52 PM »
Most of the simple "no loss" upgrade is in brakes, and a little in weight of parts. You'll find damping "upgrades" to be very tricky with modern forks as they're often not even closely valved or sprung to what you want and start to cost a lot to change. As for the whole front ends, the problem is that you end up with all kinds of geometry problems unless you're more interested in the current "Coffee Racer" trend instead of actual performance.

Tips:
- Most things from the mid to low 80's are running higher offset triples and similar fork lengths (due to similar rake angles on the double cradle frames)
- Most modern front ends run ~0.5"-1.5" offset triples with very steep frame rake. Also makes the forks shorter (which drops the bike), will generally not be compatible without a lot of work.
- If you can get a set of opposed piston calipers, I find that the feel and the maintenance make them worthwhile.
- 37mm tubes are plenty stiff for SOHC4 weight, and a set of gold valve emulators or something similar plus a well set up front end (progressive springs, good oil, good seals) will get you to something reasonably well handling.
- Pick a front end, pick brakes, then size up master cylinder, and if you want compatibility, run the same model clutch control and adapt the cables. Ends are easy to change.
 - If you can find something that takes an alloy stem and alloy lower clamp, you'll save a nice bit of weight, and be in good shape.

The ideal, simple, bolt on solution is to just go with a set of 900F (or other conventional forks with similar rotor spacing, offset, and length to stock)  forks and use the 2 pot brakes up front or adapt something like fishhead brakes does. Then pick a decent modern master and clutch setup to go with it.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 12:12:54 PM by MidnightLamp »
'75 CB750 - Racer
'69 CB350 - Racer
'68 Enfield 350/440(flat top) - Steet
'54 Enfield 350 - Resto
'74 Commando 850 - Restomod
'67 Enfield 750 (TT7) - Resto

Offline MidnightLamp

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2014, 12:12:24 PM »
Double post, sorry.
'75 CB750 - Racer
'69 CB350 - Racer
'68 Enfield 350/440(flat top) - Steet
'54 Enfield 350 - Resto
'74 Commando 850 - Restomod
'67 Enfield 750 (TT7) - Resto

Offline scottly

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2014, 09:10:13 PM »
You will need triples with at least 50mm of offset, or the fork tubes will bash the front corners of the Seeley tank at full lock. I had a Kawi 550 front end on my bike for a while, but due to the 30mm offset, I had to limit the steering to the point where it had the turning radius of a school bus. ::)
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2014, 05:33:24 AM »
You will need triples with at least 50mm of offset, or the fork tubes will bash the front corners of the Seeley tank at full lock. I had a Kawi 550 front end on my bike for a while, but due to the 30mm offset, I had to limit the steering to the point where it had the turning radius of a school bus. ::)
scotly, you just needed to grab a post 84' 550 fork with the non offset axle... :)
gpz750, 37mm forks are quite good too, both triple clamps being forged alu. All kawi GPZ forks have teflon bushings top and bottom and are not too popular on ebay (yet), maybe because fo the ugly antidive valves (can be removed) .
Jaguar, you'll need simple bearing adapters to make them work. Does the seeley frame have the same bearing kit as stock honda?

Offline jaguar

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2014, 05:43:28 AM »
Still looking at the different options.

Unsure about what bearing the frame uses.
The PO did install new races in the frame, They look about the same size as stock, I can measure them and see though.  Problem is that I don't really have the set up to machine anything, even relatively simple spacers or cups.

Offline scottly

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Re: Fork Upgrade Options
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2014, 07:40:33 PM »
TG, the '82 550 front end was free. I will say that the damping and overall action, with Progressive brand springs was much better than either the K1 forks my bike came with or the K7 forks currently fitted.
The lower steering bearing is same as stock, but the upper outer race is 2.00" OD. The inner race, at least on mine, is marked as a 1.00" bore, but has been opened up to fit the Honda stem.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....