Topic: SOHC Handling? How's it differ? What do I need to know?

[jidai]

I've been gradually restoring my 550 and it should be ready to roll this weekend. With that in mind I'm excited to ride it but I know it's going to handle a lot differently than the other bikes I've ridden. This is the first bike I've owned but I've got about 10 or so hours of seat time in a friend's Interceptor VF500F when I was first learning and about 12 in a Ninja 250 from the MSF course. These are both fairly modern setup sport bikes with a lower seating, wider tires, etc.

What handling difference can I expect? What should I keep in mind when first taking it out? Is vibration a big concern? Will counter-steering differ because I'm far more upright? How low to the ground can I turn it before I start to get in trouble?

Any suggestions, tips, or experiences on the handling of these bikes vs. modern sport bikes would be much appreciated.

[cmorgan47]

Any suggestions, tips, or experiences on the handling of these bikes vs. modern sport bikes would be much appreciated.

be sure to figure out when you need to stop about a block and a hlaf in advance


seriously though, like anytime you get on a new bike, take it slow, figure out what you can do in a safe environment, gradually increase agressiveness till the "sphicter-pucker" sets in.

i think they handle great, especially the smaller ones.  it'll lean farther than you will.

[nickjtc]

With the bigger wheels you'll find that you may need to be a bit more positive with your steering inputs (especially at 'speed') because of the increased gyroscopic precession.

I concur with cmorgan about braking. You are unlikely to be able to do stoppies on this kind of bike!

[Dave Wyatt]

Have you ever danced with a fat girl?  Compared to more modern bikes of similar sizes these old CB's require a bit more input.  Like others have said, take your time and get to know how the bike reacts and plan your stops a little futher in advance.  And have fun!

[DRam]

What everyone else said about brakes.  Other than that they handle quite well.  Take your time getting used to it and you'll do fine.

[cmorgan47]

Have you ever danced with a fat girl?

i actually LOLed.  not just typing LOL, i'm sitting here LOLing as i type.

[nickjtc]

Oh, and incidentally, get good tyres.

[Rushoid]

Have you ever danced with a fat girl?

i actually LOLed.  not just typing LOL, i'm sitting here LOLing as i type.

Wouldn't that be LingOL?

If you have any saddle time at all, the bike probably won't give you any real surprises. Other than the brakes that is.  

[cmorgan47]

Wouldn't that be LingOL?

yeah, that's been the topic of much debate around the office.

i think we decided that LOL was being treated as a word rather than an acronym, therefor you'd conjegate it as such.

that and loling rolls off the tongue better than lingol.

yeah, we have a lot of spare time here.

[loonymoon]

Have you ever danced with a fat girl?  Compared to more modern bikes of similar sizes these old CB's require a bit more input.  Like others have said, take your time and get to know how the bike reacts and plan your stops a little futher in advance.  And have fun!

ha ha - as a bit of a dancer myself I'm afraid your analogy of dancing with a fat girl isn't really true..  I teach salsa and as a teacher I have to lead. Some of the worst girls to lead are actually the smallest ones because they're so stiff and won't go where you want, and some of the bigger girls are actually better to dance with!! So - you never know a lardy bike isn't necessarily the worst....!

I'm hardly experienced when it comes to sports bikes but I must say that my little CB350 can be chucked about pretty welll. I went on a rally a few weeks ago and there were some blokes (guys to non-brits!) showing off  by riding fast on fish-tailed velocettes overtaking everyone. So I decided that I'd show them that I could keep up on my little 350, not to overtake, but just to stay on the horizon when they looked behind(no mirrors on the  racy velos!). They kept looking over their shoulders and I was still there!

 Suffice to say I kept up ok- though I have to admit that it ment riding a little out of my comfort zone (Not really my style!!) and there was one corner I took where I definately got the spincter pucker factor and panicked a little. However the 350 didn't bat an eyelid and just went round.

My dad has a Trumph Sprint ST (not really a sports bike but a sport's tourer anyway) and he enjoys riding the CB350 - he says it handles well and is very chuckable.

Watch the brakes though - the performance most definately isn't up to modern bike standards!

[loonymoon]

Oh and another thing - decent rear shocks (like Hagons) would probably help. I've heard that the ones on the Cb350 lost gas almost as soon as they left the Honda factory!! Mine are the originals and the bike handles OK. Would only get better with better shocks.

[nickjtc]

Oh and another thing - decent rear shocks (like Hagons) would probably help. I've heard that the ones on the Cb350 lost gas almost as soon as they left the Honda factory!! Mine are the originals and the bike handles OK. Would only get better with better shocks.

Worst case scenario with crapped-out shocks would be a distinct pogo-ing sensation as you corner. Probably only noticeable in the case where the rider is, erm, 'pleasingly rounded' and the bike is being pushed to it's limits.

[putnaja1]

Yes, along with shocks, the state of the tires and forks too, will make a big difference.

I found that out on my 550- with the 30 year old Dunlop on the front, with pooped out forkseals, and old worn out fork oil, the bike was scary around corners- unpredictable.  With newly rebuilt forks, new fork oil, new sporty tires properly inflated, properly adjusted shocks- handling is 100% different.  Predictable, and not a hinderance to riding at all. 

Also, remember, the two bikes you listed aren't modern sportbikes either- I bet the VF500F handles great, and also the Ninja 250- but I don't think either would do a "stoppie" either.  In other words, they are newer than your CB, but they are closer to your CB handling-wise and equipment wise than they are to a modern middleweight sportbike..  I'd be surprised if the Ninja 250 has bigger tires than the CB, I know it's single disc front and drum rear..  It's certainly lighter, but still.  I think compared to these bikes you have listed your experience on, as long as your current ride is 100%, you'll be pleasantly surprised.  Just make sure you allow yourself a proper acclimation to any machine- don't jump right on and try to roadrace her just yet.. 

[GroovieGhoulie]

Things I've noticed:

Top-heavy compared to modern machines.  It feels like a huge lead weight is in the fuel tank.
The rear shocks will allow some wallow if set too soft.  I set mine on position four (out of five) and they don't wallow and the ride isn't too stiff.
Difficult to tight u-turn unless you've practiced and are familiar with it.  A huge tendency to fall inward on slow corners freaks people out (see the top-heavy comment).  Counter-lean big time.
Fairly short rake and trail make for quick steering.  When on the front brake and the forks are compressed, it gets dangerously quick.  Not as much of a problem with the F model 750s since they increased the rake and trail.
Despite the short rake and trail, the bikes are quite stable at speed in a straight line.
The 400F is light and flickable, requiring only the thought of turning to turn.  The 500/550 takes a bit more work, and the 750 needs some serious manhandling at low speeds, but gets better as speeds increase.
They WILL lean further than you think.
Body English plays a huge role in the handling.
The brakes are not TOO powerful and they are progressive, so they can be used into corners or even mid-corner without causing a lowside or skid, but don't get cocky with this one.
The bikes suffer from "Far East Shock Malady", which is too much spring and not enough shock.  Seems the Japanese were still learning about suspensions during this time.  Springs are pretty stiff and the shocks run out of damping quickly compared to modern units.

That's all I can think of now.  Will post more as it occurs to me.

[nickjtc]

Things I've noticed:
Difficult to tight u-turn unless you've practiced and are familiar with it.  A huge tendency to fall inward on slow corners freaks people out (see the top-heavy comment). .

Hmm. I'm interested by your comment, Groovie. When I first got Sophie I was amazed at a) how tight the turning radius was and b) how easy it is to do U-turns, circles, figure '8s', slaloms and all of that fun stuff us ex-instructors like to do. Maybe I know what to look for to make it easy for myself....?

[Ernie]

never lean into a tight left,with your kickstand down

[Gordon]

never lean into a tight left,with your kickstand down

I thought that was how you're supposed to put it back up?

[GroovieGhoulie]

Things I've noticed:
Difficult to tight u-turn unless you've practiced and are familiar with it.  A huge tendency to fall inward on slow corners freaks people out (see the top-heavy comment). .

Hmm. I'm interested by your comment, Groovie. When I first got Sophie I was amazed at a) how tight the turning radius was and b) how easy it is to do U-turns, circles, figure '8s', slaloms and all of that fun stuff us ex-instructors like to do. Maybe I know what to look for to make it easy for myself....?

My 400F has either a higher center of gravity or at least the FEELING of a higher center of gravity than almost any other bike I've been on, save the bigger SOHC Fours.  It freaked me out the first few times I went to U-turn.  I was putting my inside foot down regularly to keep the bike from falling in.  I was probably fine, but it just felt like it was going to tip over.

My 750 is the worst about that though.  It feels like the tank is solid lead and it wants to TIP inward at the first opportunity.  I still need to get comfortable on that machine.

Since then, I've gotten more comfortable on the machine and can U-turn it tightly with no problems, but it's still not as "comfy" as on bikes with lower centers of gravity. 

Your 650 is a newer design than the 750 or 400 and it might be a bit more forgiving in some respects.  Never ridden a 650, so I wouldn't know.

[nickjtc]

never lean into a tight left,with your kickstand down

I thought that was how you're supposed to put it back up?

Only if you've got that little Honda developed rubber tit hanging off the back of the stand. Then it catches real slick like.