Author Topic: Frustrating carb issues.  (Read 1181 times)

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Offline tfrasca

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Frustrating carb issues.
« on: November 13, 2014, 07:40:08 AM »
In the last few days, I've been getting to know a lot about the 087A carbs on my '76550K. I know I ask a lot of questions here, but you guys are generally helpful, and I feel like I must be doing something wrong. Anyone care to help me figure this out?

Problem:

1/8-1/4 throttle hesitation, seemingly caused by one or more fouling plugs.

Setup:

#1: For the first few weeks, I was running all new stock jets in cleaned carbs. New points, timing was set, UNI air filter, and an older MAC 4-1. Tank is clean, petcock is brand new and has the filter screen. New NGK D7EA plugs, and new plug caps. Although, when I went through the carbs, I stupidly didn't pull the needles because I thought it would upset the sync between the carbs.

^ With this setup, the bike would run very rich, sputtering at small throttle openings, but felt good after 1/4 throttle. It got worse as the bike warmed up, and removing the air filter completely fixed the sputtering.

#1.5: I left everything the same as above, but synced the carbs and installed a Dyna S ignition. Igntition was static timed, and I have no reason whatsoever to suspect that it isn't working well. Sputtering seemed to get *slightly* better, but was still present, again, especially when the bike was warm. Again, removing filter fixed the low end hesitation, indicating an over-rich situation.

#2: Everything the same as above, but I checked the needles. Stock 272304 needles, 4th slot from the top. Totally stock. BUT, the #4 needle had some damage on the tip, and the bottom of it was all black. This was also the cylinder that was running the richest. Problem solved. I had some Keyster D26 needles, so I put 4 brand new needles in and set them at the 4th slot from top. I should note that they're about .5mm longer, so I anticipated a slightly lean condition, if anything. Ran the bike for a day, and it seemed better. It sounded and acted a little lean, but the plugs were grey, or even slightly dark. But the revs hung a bit more than before, and the exhaust had that 'fluttery' sound. For the most part, the sputter was gone. Seemed to be *barely* present when the bike heated up, as before.

Until the next day, when the sputter got just as bad as before. I pulled the plugs and #3 is now completely black. Blacker than black. The other plugs vary from very dark grey to basically black.

If the other plugs had been grey or whitish, but plug #3 was black, I'd suspect something amiss with the needle I just installed. But why would they all be running rich-ish? Could one carb misbehaving affect the others somehow? Mechanically, this setup SHOULD run stoic or a little lean.

When it stops raining I'll pull the needles out again and check on carb #3 (with the fouled plug), but I'm just looking for some advice here.

I just had another thought- Would pulling the slides out from the top change the carb sync drastically? You obviously have to disconnect the linkage, but it can only go back together the same as it was- shouldn't be much, if any change, right?

Thanks for any advice, and sorry for the long post- I'm at my wits' end!

TF

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2014, 07:41:31 AM »
Holy #$%*, that was longer than I thought... Sorry.

Offline gloken

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2014, 08:06:43 AM »
"I just had another thought- Would pulling the slides out from the top change the carb sync drastically? You obviously have to disconnect the linkage, but it can only go back together the same as it was- shouldn't be much, if any change, right?"

You're going to get better advice than this, but here's the thing:  vacuum sync it again.
If you dismantled, cleaned, changed parts, etc, it could affect the syncing. Try it again and see if cleans up the problem. 
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2014, 08:29:12 AM »
If you take your slides, out, you'll need to vacuum sync again.

Lets rule out a few things.  I'd like to see....
1. your emulsion tubes and your pilot jets.  pull them all and post a picture.
2. a clear tube test PICTURE proving you have the correct fuel level in the bowls.
3. a NEW set of D7EA's installed, the bike idled for 5 minutes(run a fan), and an AFTER picture of the plug insulators.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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Offline tfrasca

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2014, 08:40:55 AM »
Flybox, I'll do all that as soon as I can. Have you had much luck pulling pilots and emulsion tubes with the carbs on the bike?

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2014, 01:09:03 PM »

2. a clear tube test PICTURE proving you have the correct fuel level in the bowls.

this!
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline flybox1

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2014, 01:19:48 PM »
Flybox, I'll do all that as soon as I can. Have you had much luck pulling pilots and emulsion tubes with the carbs on the bike?
nope  ;D
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2014, 02:15:36 PM »
Figured as much! Maybe I'll take it as a sign that I should be riding in the rain anyway. I'll check back in a few days with answers to your questions. Thanks again!

Offline Duanob

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2014, 02:34:02 PM »
Flybox, I'll do all that as soon as I can. Have you had much luck pulling pilots and emulsion tubes with the carbs on the bike?

Pilot jets yes, main jets and emulsion tubes, nope. Get a K&L carb cleaner needle tool kit. The pilots on this bike accept the tiniest wire in the kit.
"Just because you flush a boatload of money down the toilet, doesn't make the toilet worth more",  My Stepfather the Unknown Poet

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Offline tfrasca

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2014, 05:45:38 PM »
Good call, Duanob. Just ordered one.

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2014, 08:56:05 AM »
Just got into my carbs to try to track down this rich cylinder/stutter. Turns out, the clips supplied with the Keyster D26 needles are garbage. They were a little looser than the stock ones, but I didn't think much of it. I pulled the slide from cyl. 3 (which had fouled a plug) and the needle was sitting way higher up in the slide. Took it apart and the bent clip just fell off! Word of caution- don't use loose needle clips!

Offline lucky

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2014, 09:06:42 AM »
Forget about spark plugs right now.
Need to start all over with the thinking.

First
What kind of intake do you have on the bike?
What kind of exhaust do you have on this bike?

Without that information there can be no meaningful discussion.

If you have altered the stock intake in any way (that includes the stock filter),then the jetting cannot be stock and either can the slide needle clip position.

Hesitation is usually caused from a lean condition.

Can you answer those two questions? Do not add any other information.


Offline tfrasca

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2014, 09:11:02 AM »
What kind of intake do you have on the bike?

Stock air box, UNI foam filter.

What kind of exhaust do you have on this bike?

Older style MAC 4-1 with copious glass packing in the muffler.

Offline Vinhead1957

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2014, 09:11:45 AM »
Me like !  Looks like a smoking gun

Offline tfrasca

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Re: Frustrating carb issues.
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2014, 09:15:49 AM »
Yeah, there's no question about why that #3 plug was black as night. I'll put the old clips on the new needles, which will fit nice and snug, then figure out how to jet/set clips for my setup now that all for carbs will be doing the same thing. I'm about to pull the bowls and double check everything there, but I don't suspect any issues with the new stock jets in there.

Lucky, what say you about the clip position on my intake/exhaust setup?