Author Topic: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?  (Read 11916 times)

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Nic

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2014, 04:51:22 PM »
First road block, none of my chucks can hold drill bit that small.
Pin vice, you can even put it in a drill.

Offline faux fiddy

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2014, 04:54:42 PM »
First road block, none of my chucks can hold drill bit that small.

We use a cannibalized drill moror for this. Those 9v cordless drills from the eighties have one good part on most of them, the chuck.

Maybe this is the part we should make a few dozen of.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2014, 06:11:44 PM »
Thank you, I have old DeWalt somewhere, should be able to adapt it to MT2.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2014, 04:50:33 PM »
Well, look at this.  I dont think I will be producing them in dozens but I have the tooling and I (hope) know the process how to make them.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 04:52:33 PM by 70CB750 »
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Nic

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2014, 05:18:03 PM »
Well done mate.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2014, 05:53:17 PM »
Thanks  ;D

I would feel better having an original available to compare or/and a head to try how it fits.
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Nic

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2014, 06:13:52 PM »
Thanks  ;D

I would feel better having an original available to compare or/and a head to try how it fits.
I've got one that has busted off half way up the skinny bit but I'm in Oz otherwise i would send it to you.

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2014, 06:33:05 PM »
Thanks  ;D

I would feel better having an original available to compare or/and a head to try how it fits.
Prokop, I have a head off on a k6 with the oil jets out right now.  If you would send the one you made to me, I could compare, check fit, etc.  ..and would send it back to you.  I will post pics.  Just get it to me in the next week, as I am eager to put this engine back together.
...or maybe someone like Hondaman or M. Rieck has numerous examples to compare yours to...might be more scientific that way
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 06:34:41 PM by seanbarney41 »
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2014, 07:44:56 PM »
Well, look at this.  I dont think I will be producing them in dozens but I have the tooling and I (hope) know the process how to make them.
Slick! Excellent machine work as always Prokop.

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2014, 08:31:34 PM »
Anybody knows dimensions of those jets?  It should not be too hard to make.
Many have been the threads about making these. So far no one has tackled it. That I know of.

I did! I made about 10 of them 3 years ago. I think I used them all up. Somewhere here I posted the dimensions, as I think someone else wanted them to make their own oil jets Down Under. The metering hole is .037" nominal (.039 on K0-K1, and .0365" on post-1975 engines), and the 7 strainer holes are all .033".
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2014, 02:01:12 AM »
Mark, I followed your drawing from here:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=134855.msg1515632#msg1515632

Four holes accross, makes it 8 total. The metering hole is 0.035".
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 02:08:00 AM by 70CB750 »
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Offline lrutt

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2014, 05:16:09 AM »
Wonder if a low speed carb jet could be modified to work. They look almost identical in configuration, and you could get just the right orifice size needed.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2014, 05:23:07 AM »
Somebody told me that:

"Vincent motorcycles used a larger hole with a metering wire, basically 2 thin wires twisted together, poked through the hole and wrapped around the spigot under the banjo."

Basically  restricting the bigger hole to limit the oil flow.  Would be worth an experiment  ;)
Prokop
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Offline AintNoEasyWay

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2014, 05:51:55 AM »
Very cool!

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2014, 07:49:40 PM »
I ended up posting comparison pics of oem to 70CB750's here...
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=143562.msg1632019#new
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Offline Don R

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2014, 08:10:03 PM »
Somebody told me that:

"Vincent motorcycles used a larger hole with a metering wire, basically 2 thin wires twisted together, poked through the hole and wrapped around the spigot under the banjo."

Basically  restricting the bigger hole to limit the oil flow.  Would be worth an experiment  ;)
the old drag racers did this to Holley carbs too.
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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2014, 11:26:50 PM »
Mark, I followed your drawing from here:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=134855.msg1515632#msg1515632

Four holes accross, makes it 8 total. The metering hole is 0.035".

Yep, those are the ones I made. The prototype I used for that 'series' (of 10) came from a K2, I think, which was badly corroded and the strainer cracked (it may have been a New Factory late K1?). In my "blanks" I made the metering hole .035" so if the engine I was headed for had a bigger hole, I had 'room' to fix that. As soon as I posted that, I got lots of mails telling me of everyone else's metering sizes, too!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline dlhoulton

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2014, 06:49:42 AM »
I had the opportunity yesterday to go to well established frame and motorcycle builder that has the specialty in CB750. Here is his web site: http://www.cycleonemanufacturing.com/ . He had a large pile of CB750 motors in his shop along with a stack of approx. 10 to 12 cylinder heads. We were looking at different years and there different "Oil Control Orifice". We did not positively identify the exact year of each cylinder head but we did identify three different types of "Oil Control".
The first was just a small circular milled out area that had just an angled hole drilled in the direction of the oil galley that the stud goes through. There were two of these, just like current set up and location. These of course were non removable or replaceable. We were guessing these were early year cylinder heads.
The second cylinder head we identified had the same small circular milled out area but had a metal disk seated into it with a very small raised "nipple" in the center. This small disk was not aluminum because it had some rust on them and a magnet stuck to them. (I know, not very scientific). We did not put very much effort into it but was not able remove them. The "nipple" did not protrude enough to get a hold of to remove them.
Then the third cylinder head we identified had the current circular milled out hole to except the current aluminum "Oil Control Orifice".
We looked through the rest but that was the only three types that we could find. Again not very scientific but to his more trained eye all the center metering holes in all types of Oil Control Orifice were the same size. All used the same 5.8 x 1.9 o-ring or 5.6 x 1.9 o-ring.
In my research at looking up the current stock or part number: 12238-300-000 Orifice, Oil Control I found that on most all fish files from places like (Partzilla.com, Hondapartsnation.com, Hondaparthouse.com, and many more) that this part is listed to be used in over 35 models of CB750, from 1969 to 1978 and used in K, F and A models.
I thought this was odd since we visible seen three different types but the fish has the part used in all Honda CB750 models.

This has got me a little confused as to when they actually started using them and in what models. Hope this info is useful to any that might be interested.

Also, like 70CB750 I now offer these for sale in the "Services Offered" section.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 12:39:59 PM by dlhoulton »

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2014, 08:43:28 PM »
I had the opportunity yesterday to go to well established frame and motorcycle builder that has the specialty in CB750. Here is his web site: http://www.cycleonemanufacturing.com/ . He had a large pile of CB750 motors in his shop along with a stack of approx. 10 to 12 cylinder heads. We were looking at different years and there different "Oil Control Orifice". We did not positively identify the exact year of each cylinder head but we did identify three different types of "Oil Control".
The first was just a small circular milled out area that had just an angled hole drilled in the direction of the oil galley that the stud goes through. There were two of these, just like current set up and location. These of course were non removable or replaceable. We were guessing these were early year cylinder heads.
You're correct: those were the earliest K0 types. The rocker towers themselves had the metering holes inside them, which were easily plugged with gasket debris, having no screening of any kind. These are mostly gone now, due to poor oiling performance. These rocker towers are also unidirectional, and often do not have an oil "exit" on the far end of the casting, so no O-ring recess is found in the head at their far end(s). There is a "left" and a "right" side rocker tower, and they must not be switched, lest the top end lose all oil flow. If a later, symmetric type cam bearing/rocker tower is used on these heads, a plug must be made and installed into the oil journal hole above each head feed, with a metering hole (like .037") drilled through the plug. Otherwise, so much oil enters the top end unrestricted that the crankshaft bearings starve, quickly. The oil PSI also drops to about 20 PSI in that situation.

Quote
The second cylinder head we identified had the same small circular milled out area but had a metal disk seated into it with a very small raised "nipple" in the center. This small disk was not aluminum because it had some rust on them and a magnet stuck to them. (I know, not very scientific). We did not put very much effort into it but was not able remove them. The "nipple" did not protrude enough to get a hold of to remove them.
With some more work, you'll be able to remove the jets. They have a dome on the other side, and the steel orifice plate you see is crimped around a collar and a 13-hole perforated screen on the other side. These are the later K0-K1 jets, often also found in K2 (like mine). These are the most efficient screen types, with metering holes usually of .0365" size. These are used with the symmetrical rocker towers, and there is an O-ring on both sides of the rocker tower where an O-ring seals the unused hole against the head to capture the oil pressure. These towers are interchangeable, left-to-right.

You will not usually see these oil orifices in any current parts fiche from Honda: they disappeared around 2002 from view. To my knowledge, you never could get separate ones from Honda as a spare part, either.

Quote
Then the third cylinder head we identified had the current circular milled out hole to except the current aluminum "Oil Control Orifice".
We looked through the rest but that was the only three types that we could find. Again not very scientific but to his more trained eye all the center metering holes in all types of Oil Control Orifice were the same size. All used the same 5.8 x 1.9 o-ring or 5.6 x 1.9 o-ring.
The large oil orifice in the K0-K1 heads can use either the 1.9x5.9, 2.6, or 1.9x3.9, or 2x4mm O rings as their seals, so long as the rocker towers in use are the symmetric type. In many of these heads, the outer O-rings MUST be the smaller size because the recess in the head is fitted to the max 4mm OD.

In all heads after the K2, the 1.9x5.9 or 2x6mm O-rings can be used on both sides of the rocker towers, as the heads were spot-faced to fit the 6mm size.

Quote
In my research at looking up the current stock or part number: 12238-300-000 Orifice, Oil Control I found that on most all fish files from places like (Partzilla.com, Hondapartsnation.com, Hondaparthouse.com, and many more) that this part is listed to be used in over 35 models of CB750, from 1969 to 1978 and used in K, F and A models.
I thought this was odd since we visible seen three different types but the fish has the part used in all Honda CB750 models.

This has got me a little confused as to when they actually started using them and in what models. Hope this info is useful to any that might be interested.

Also, like 70CB750 I now offer these for sale in the "Services Offered" section.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Xander^

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2019, 12:58:16 AM »
scariest moment ever!!!

I need one of these top end metering jets!

I just ruined my camshaft, and camshaft holder on the 1&2 side by running the bike dry on that side, jet is clogged seems.. no air blowing through when i hit it with air compressor.

Someone help plz!!
1977 CB750K cafe

Offline PeWe

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2019, 03:09:51 AM »
How to remove hard sitting oil orifices has been up before.
I described how I did it. Really easy if having M10 tap and M10 bolt, oil and  drill to slam in pressing out the orifice.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,175940.msg2051709.html#msg2051709
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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2019, 06:42:58 AM »
scariest moment ever!!!

I need one of these top end metering jets!

I just ruined my camshaft, and camshaft holder on the 1&2 side by running the bike dry on that side, jet is clogged seems.. no air blowing through when i hit it with air compressor.

Someone help plz!!
The famous cam twisting in half, happened to a lot of us. Most often caused by use of hardening silicon gasket goo. A bit will breakoff and be forced up to that orifice,, seize the cam and destroy to bearings.  Non-hardening goo should be used.
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Offline Xander^

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2019, 12:32:52 PM »
Will this jet really be that difficult to remove??
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Offline 754

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Re: Where to Buy Top End Oil Jets?
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2019, 12:34:48 PM »
 No .
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