Author Topic: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?  (Read 1874 times)

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Offline stereosilence

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Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« on: November 23, 2014, 02:05:15 PM »
I replaced my wheel bearings with allballs and I am having to tap the axle in with a mallet where it previously would slide right in. Is that normal?

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 02:13:31 PM »
I did not have that issue when I changed mine earlier this year. Light taps?
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Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 02:14:24 PM »
Well, I'm using a 1 lb deadblow rubber mallet, but I have to hit it. IT is making it tough to install the front wheel.

Offline oldhatt45

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2014, 02:30:38 PM »
Just finished up putting new All Balls Bearings in my front Hub for my 750 K6.
The axle went in nice and smoothly.  I did put some grease on the axle when assembling.  A very light coat.
No problem with assembly.

Charlie

Offline bjbuchanan

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2014, 03:56:03 PM »
Clean any corrosion and grease the axle, it should go smooth.

My only other thought is that you didn't deburr the collar after removal. It probably has ridges and dig marks. Hit it with a file
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 04:29:20 AM »
Clean any corrosion and grease the axle, it should go smooth.


+1  on ^^^That.

I had to hammer out my rear axle when changing tires, after polishing it with 400 grit and some grease it went in smoothly.
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Offline NobleHops

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 06:27:34 AM »
It sounds to me like one of your bearings is slightly cocked in its pocket, likely the floating one. I just did read a thread here on bearing installation here that I'll try to not garble, but the guy's technique was to install the fixed bearing and retainer first, clamp the axle pointing up, slide the wheel atop the axle, install the distance collar, then the other bearing in the floating pocket just till it was seated on the collar.

In any event, one or both or your wheel bearings aren't aligned, and it's probably the floating one.

N.
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Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 06:27:52 AM »
Ok. I'll give it a shot. I did grease it though. I was wondering if it was possible the bearings were somehow barely off alignment, but that seems unlikely since they are all the way in there. It seems like at the end of the day it shouldn't matter much. Once the axle is in, it stays stationary so it shouldn't matter how tight it is, right?

Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 06:28:54 AM »
It sounds to me like one of your bearings is slightly cocked in its pocket, likely the floating one. I just did read a thread here on bearing installation here that I'll try to not garble, but the guy's technique was to install the fixed bearing and retainer first, clamp the axle pointing up, slide the wheel atop the axle, install the distance collar, then the other bearing in the floating pocket just till it was seated on the collar.

In any event, one or both or your wheel bearings aren't aligned, and it's probably the floating one.

N.

I did not do them myself. What is a "floating" bearing?

Offline CapeCafe

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2014, 06:41:12 AM »
When I replaced the front and rear wheel bearings on my 550, I put the bearings in the freezer for about 5 hours and then heated the hubs to 350 degrees.  The bearings slid right in smoothly and when cooled to room temp were nice and locked in.  Same way many of us install valve guides. 
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Offline NobleHops

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2014, 06:45:12 AM »
It sounds to me like one of your bearings is slightly cocked in its pocket, likely the floating one. I just did read a thread here on bearing installation here that I'll try to not garble, but the guy's technique was to install the fixed bearing and retainer first, clamp the axle pointing up, slide the wheel atop the axle, install the distance collar, then the other bearing in the floating pocket just till it was seated on the collar.

In any event, one or both or your wheel bearings aren't aligned, and it's probably the floating one.

N.

I did not do them myself. What is a "floating" bearing?

Look at your wheel and you will see that one side has a screw-in retainer. The recess or "pocket" that bearing sits in is square and flat, you install the bearing with the proper sized bearing driver till it's seated squarely and firmly, seated in that pocket, then the retainer is screwed in and staked with a pin punch so it can't back out. That's the fixed point of orientation for the wheel to the bike.

Then the spacer or 'distance collar' is installed, its job is to maintain exact spacing to the bearing on the other side, and bear the axial load down the assembly.

The bearing on the other side does not sit in a pocket with a square flat bottom, it only bears against the wheel on its outer edge. It's supposed to be installed just till it's resting on the spacer, but obviously it needs to be square and parallel so it's aligned with the other bearing and the axle doesn't bind.

That's the point of installing with the axle in place, you're aligning things in one go if it's done right.

So no disrespect intended whatsoever, if you don't have a bearing driver and a long flat drift it might be hard to get that aligned. If you can figure out which direction the misalignment is you might be able to carefully tap on the outer bearing surface with a drift and get it straightened, but you risk damaging the bearing.

If you paid to have that installed you might ask them to straighten it. Bring the axle with you if you do.

N.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 06:48:13 AM by NobleHops »
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 06:51:53 AM »
...

 It seems like at the end of the day it shouldn't matter much. Once the axle is in, it stays stationary so it shouldn't matter how tight it is, right?

It does matter, if the bearing is misaligned it will wear a lot faster.

N.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2014, 11:23:59 AM »
Yeah...I'm not too happy because the guy who did it for me moved his shop like 70 miles away, but he offered to take another look at it. Wish I had known this ahead of time. I guess these are the things you learn when fixing up a bike the first time. I suppose I'll have to try to figure out which direction it is canted and see if I can give it a good tap. This project is getting frustrating, it seems like nothing ever works.

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2014, 11:38:05 AM »
Yeah...I'm not too happy because the guy who did it for me moved his shop like 70 miles away, but he offered to take another look at it. Wish I had known this ahead of time. I guess these are the things you learn when fixing up a bike the first time. I suppose I'll have to try to figure out which direction it is canted and see if I can give it a good tap. This project is getting frustrating, it seems like nothing ever works.

I find it helps me to think of my own thrashings as "part of the bonding process" :-).

If you can find a socket that will just contact the outer edge of the bearing, go ahead and place that squarely on the bearing and see if it's easier to detect which way it might be canted, but don't wail on it, you don't want to put any more than a bit of pressure on the collar within. Tap on the high side, try the axle, repeat.

Give it a go, just be careful.

Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 12:11:15 PM »
Yeah, I tried to put the axle in only one bearing and see if I could tell if it was crooked. I couldn't see any difference. I may just give it some taps all the way around. My collars were sort of beat up. I wonder if it could be something with those.

I think the bonding process has gone on too long. I've been rebuilding this thing for 2-3 years and the progress is just sooooo slow. I still need to build a wire harness yet....

Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2014, 04:50:38 PM »
I just looked at my front wheel (which is an '05 R1 wheel) and the collar is pinched at once spot between the bearings. So, to explain, if I put my finger in there, I can move the collar around but it pivots about one point. However, the dust seals have been installed and I'm not sure how to remove them without destroying them.

Offline NobleHops

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2014, 08:03:51 AM »
Non stock wheels would be a helpful detail to pass along when you look for troubleshooting help friend. Nothing I wrote applies. Good luck.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline 754

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2014, 08:56:57 AM »
Sometimes the center spacer will rub on the axle, making it harder to slide. In..
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Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2014, 10:39:47 AM »
Rear wheel is stock. Both have similar issues. Thanks for your input.

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2014, 10:51:20 AM »
Rear wheel is stock. Both have similar issues. Thanks for your input.

Ahh, OK nevermind. Sorry for being cranky. Any luck trying to tap it square?
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2014, 01:56:23 PM »
No, not yet, but I don't have good tools and I'm afraid to hit it as hard as I probably would need to. A bearing driver would be nice. Has anyone ever made a homemade one with allthread similar to the tool for installing the swingarm collars?

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2014, 04:12:34 PM »
No, not yet, but I don't have good tools and I'm afraid to hit it as hard as I probably would need to. A bearing driver would be nice. Has anyone ever made a homemade one with allthread similar to the tool for installing the swingarm collars?

Many a shadetree mechanic has installed bearings with a socket, if you have one that fits very closely to the outer race of the bearing. If you do, hold it fast and give it a firm couple of taps on your best guess of the offending edge. It's not complicated :-)


Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2014, 11:08:55 AM »
I would need a very large one. Maybe I can go down to home depot and see if they have some huge thing. I don't have any drifts either.

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2014, 12:01:22 PM »
Try this, use and aluminum,  brass or wood drift that contact the inner race. On the side opposite the footing bearing, give it one sharp rap. About like putting the bearing in.
 See if that helps..
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Offline stereosilence

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Re: Do AllBalls have tight clearance?
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2014, 05:08:08 PM »
You can drive on the inner metal ring of the ball bearing?