Author Topic: Lets talk custom exhausts  (Read 10348 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2014, 03:47:12 PM »
From my factory repair manual for my '73 Z1...

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii372/67fire/1973%20%20903%20to%20994/DSC00330.jpg


Eric
That explains a lot, Eric! The torque peak is right at 7500. Makes perfect sense. Thanks!
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2014, 03:54:49 PM »
I have a standard practice that any time I start to feel full of knowledge I come here and read a thread like this.  The knowledge and experience here is truly humbling and I learn much reading this stuff.
+1

Yep, so I'm back to the drawing board on this one, but haven't given up yet so please bear with me  ;D

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2014, 05:38:26 PM »
You could always do it like the Brits did on the BSA bikes: imagine blowing a bubble on a straw that is centered inside a larger straw, then 'freeze' that moment, then trim away the larger straw upstream of the ring where the bubble touches it, leaving just the little straw, the bubble surface and the rest of the big straw downstream.

Voila - you have a BSA exhaust pipe!
:D
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2014, 06:15:48 PM »
Here's something I posted a while back in another thread, covers everything .

No exhaust system is ideal for all applications. Depending on their design and purpose, all exhaust systems compromise something to achieve something else. Before performing exhaust changes or modifications to increase performance, it is critical to determine what kind of performance you want.

    Do you want the best possible low-end and mid-range power or maximum top-end power?
    Will you be using an aftermarket cam with different lift, duration, timing and overlap?
    Have you investigated the relationship between torque (force) and horsepower (amount of work within time)?
    Do you want a cosmetic exhaust system or a performance exhaust system?

Without careful thought about these variables, an exhaust system can yield very disappointing results. On the other hand, a properly designed and tuned exhaust system that is well-matched to the engine can provide outstanding power gains.

The distinction between "maximum power" and "maximum performance" is significant beyond general discussion. Realistically, one exhaust system may not produce both maximum power and maximum performance. For a motorcycle to cover "X" distance as quickly as possible, it is not the highest peak power generated by the engine that is most critical. It is the highest average power generated across the distance that typically produces the quickest time. When comparing two horsepower curves on a dynamometer chart (assuming other factors remain constant), the curve containing the greatest average power is the one that will typically cover the distance in the least time and that curve may, or may not, contain the highest possible peak power.

In the strictest technical sense, an exhaust system cannot produce more power on its own. The potential power of an engine is determined by the proper amount of fuel available for combustion. However, the efficiency of combustion and engine pumping processes is profoundly influenced by the exhaust system. A properly designed exhaust system can reduce engine pumping losses. Therefore, the design objective for a high performance exhaust is (or should be) to reduce engine-pumping losses, and by so doing, increase volumetric efficiency. The net result of reduced pumping losses is more power available to move the motorcycle. As volumetric efficiency increases, potential fuel mileage also increases because less throttle opening is required to move the motorcycle at the same velocity.

Much controversy (and apparent confusion) surrounds the issue of exhaust "back-pressure". Many performance-minded people who are otherwise knowledgeable still cling tenaciously to the old school concept.... "You need more back-pressure for better performance."

For virtually all high performance purposes, backpressure in an exhaust system increases engine-pumping losses and decreases available engine power. It is true that some engines are mechanically tuned to "X" amount of backpressure and can show a loss of low-end torque when that backpressure is reduced. It is also true that the same engine that lost low-end torque with reduced back-pressure can be mechanically re-tuned to show an increase of low-end torque with the same reduction of back-pressure. More importantly, maximum mid-to-high RPM power will be achieved with the lowest possible backpressure. Period!

The objective of most engine modifications is to maximize the proper air and fuel flow into, and exhaust flow out of the engine. The inflow of an air/fuel mixture is a separate issue, but it is directly influenced by exhaust flow, particularly during valve overlap (when both valves are open for "X" degrees of crankshaft rotation). Gasoline requires oxygen to burn. By volume, dry, ambient air at sea level contains about 21% oxygen, 78% Nitrogen and trace amounts of Argon, CO2 and other gases. Since oxygen is only about 1/5 of air’s volume, an engine must intake 5 times more air than oxygen to get the oxygen it needs to support the combustion of fuel. If we introduce an oxygen-bearing additive such as nitrous oxide, or use an oxygen-bearing fuel such as nitromethane, we can make much more power from the same displacement because both additives bring more oxygen to the combustion chamber to support the combustion of more fuel. If we add a supercharger or turbocharger, we get more power for the same reason…. more oxygen is forced into the combustion chamber.

Theoretically, in a normally aspirated state of tune without fuel or oxygen-rich additives, an engine’s maximum power potential is directly proportional with the volume of air it flows. This means that an engine of 80 cubic inches has the same maximum power potential as an engine of 100 cubic inches, if they both flow the same volume of air. In this example, the powerband characteristics of the two engines will be quite different but the peak attainable power is essentially the same.

Flow Volume & Flow Velocity
One of the biggest issues with exhaust systems, is the relationship between gas flow volume and gas flow velocity (which also applies to the intake track). An engine needs the highest flow velocity possible for quick throttle response and torque throughout the low-to-mid range portion of the power band. The same engine also needs the highest flow volume possible throughout the mid-to-high range portion of the powerband for maximum performance. This is where a fundamental conflict arises. For "X" amount of exhaust pressure at an exhaust valve, a smaller diameter exhaust pipe will provide higher flow velocity than a larger diameter pipe. Unfortunately, the laws of physics will not allow that same small diameter pipe to flow sufficient volume to realize maximum possible power at higher RPM. If we install a larger diameter pipe, we will have enough flow volume for maximum power at mid-to-high RPM, but the flow velocity will decrease and low-to-mid range throttle response and torque will suffer. This is the primary paradox of exhaust flow dynamics and the solution is usually a design compromise that produces an acceptable amount of throttle response, torque and horsepower across the entire powerband.

A very common mistake made by some performance people is the selection of an exhaust system with pipes that are too large in diameter for their engine's state of tune. Bigger is not necessarily better and is often worse.

Equal Length Exhaust
The effectiveness of equal length exhaust is widely debated. Assuming that an exhaust system is otherwise properly designed, equal length pipes offer some benefits that are not present with unequal length pipes. These benefits are smoother engine operation, tuning simplicity and increased low-to-mid range torque.

If the pipes are not equal length, both inertial scavenging and wave scavenging will vary among engine cylinders, often dramatically. This, in turn, causes different tuning requirements for different cylinders. These variations affect air/fuel mixtures and timing requirements, and can make it very difficult to achieve optimal tuning. Equal length pipes eliminate these exhaust-induced difficulties. "Tuning", in the context used here, does not mean installing new sparkplugs and an air filter. It means configuring a combination of mechanical components to maximum efficiency for a specific purpose and it can not be overemphasized that such tuning is the path to superior performance with a combination of parts that must work together in a complimentary manner.

In an exhaust system that is properly designed for it’s application, equal length pipes are generally more efficient. The lengths of both the primary and main section of pipes strongly influence the location of the torque peak(s) within the powerband. In street and track performance engines with longer pipes typically produce more low-to-mid range torque than shorter pipes and it is torque that moves a motorcycle. The question is... Where in the powerband do you want to maximize the torque?

    Longer pipes tend to increase power below the engine’s torque peak and shorter pipes tend to increase power above the torque peak.
    Large diameter pipes tend to limit low-range power and increase high range power.
    Small diameter pipes tend to increase low-range power and to some degree limit high-range power.
    "Balance" or "equalizer" chambers between the exhaust pipes tend to flatten the torque peak(s) and widen the powerband.

Among the more astute and responsible exhaust builders, it is more-or-less understood that pipe length variations should not exceed 1" to be considered equal. Even this standard can result in a 2" difference if one pipe is an inch short and another pipe is an inch long.

Exhaust Scavenging and Energy Waves
Inertial scavenging and wave scavenging are different phenomena but both impact exhaust system efficiency and affect one another. Scavenging is simply gas extraction. These two scavenging effects are directly influenced by pipe diameter, length, shape and the thermal properties of the pipe material (stainless, mild steel, thermal coatings, etc.). When the exhaust valve opens, two things immediately happen. An energy wave, or pulse, is created from the rapidly expanding combustion gases. The wave enters the exhaust pipe traveling outward at a nominal speed of 1,300 - 1,700 feet per second (this speed varies depending on engine design, modifications, etc., and is therefore stated as a "nominal" velocity). This wave is pure energy, similar to a shock wave from an explosion. Simultaneous with the energy wave, the spent combustion gases also enter the exhaust pipe and travel outward more slowly at 150 - 300 feet per second nominal (maximum power is usually made with gas velocities between 240 and 300 feet per second). Since the energy wave is moving about 5 times faster than the exhaust gases, it will get where it is going faster than the gases. When the outbound energy wave encounters a lower pressure area such as a second or larger diameter section of pipe, the muffler or the ambient atmosphere, a reversion wave (a reversed or mirrored wave) is reflected back toward the exhaust valve without significant loss of velocity.

The reversion wave moves back toward the exhaust valve on a collision course with the exiting gases whereupon they pass through one another, with some energy loss and turbulence, and continue in their respective directions. What happens when that reversion wave arrives at the exhaust valve depends on whether the valve is still open or closed. This is a critical moment in the exhaust cycle because the reversion wave can be beneficial or detrimental to exhaust flow, depending upon its arrival time at the exhaust valve. If the exhaust valve is closed when the reversion wave arrives, the wave is again reflected toward the exhaust outlet and eventually dissipates its energy in this back and forth motion. If the exhaust valve is open when the wave arrives, its effect upon exhaust gas flow depends on which part of the wave is hitting the open exhaust valve.

A wave is comprised of two alternating and opposing pressures. In one part of the wave cycle, the gas molecules are compressed. In the other part of the wave, the gas molecules are rarefied. Therefore, each wave contains a compression area (node) of higher pressure and a rarefaction area (anti-node) of lower pressure. An exhaust pipe of the proper length (for a specific RPM range) will place the wave’s anti-node at the exhaust valve at the proper time for it’s lower pressure to help fill the combustion chamber with fresh incoming charge and to extract spent gases from the chamber. This is wave scavenging or "wave tuning".

From these cyclical engine events, one can deduce that the beneficial part of a rapidly traveling reversion wave can only be present at an exhaust port during portions of the powerband since it's relative arrival time changes with RPM. This makes it difficult to tune an exhaust system to take advantage of reversion waves which is why there are various anti-reversion devices designed to improve performance. These anti-reversion devices are designed to weaken and disrupt the detrimental reversion waves (when the wave's higher-pressure node impedes scavenging and intake draw-through). Specifically designed performance baffles can be extremely effective, as well as heads with D shaped ports. Unlike reversion waves that have no mass, exhaust gases do have mass. Since they are in motion, they also have inertia (or "momentum") as they travel outward at their comparatively slow velocity of 150 - 300 feet per second. When the gases move outward as a gas column through the exhaust pipe, a decreasing pressure area is created in the pipe behind them. It may help to think of this lower pressure area as a partial vacuum and one can visualize the vacuous lower pressure "pulling" residual exhaust gases from the combustion chamber and exhaust port. It can also help pull fresh air/fuel charge into the combustion chamber. This is inertial scavenging and it has a major effect upon engine power at low-to-mid range RPM.

There are other factors that further complicate the behavior of exhaust gases. Wave harmonics, wave amplification and wave cancellation effects also play into the scheme of exhaust events. The interaction of all these variables is so abstractly complex that it is difficult to fully grasp. There does not appear to be any absolute formula that will produce the perfect exhaust design. Even super-computer designed exhaust systems must undergo dyno, track, and street testing to determine the necessary configuration for the desired results. Last but not least, the correct choices and combinations of carburetor, air cleaner, cam shaft, ignition, and exhaust used in the proper relationship to each other for the intended riding application will always produce the finest quality results. Most important of all, is to do your research prior to purchasing the combination of products and equipment best suited to your individual style of riding.
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2014, 06:33:54 PM »
Retro, that post should be stickied somewhere
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2014, 06:34:46 PM »
Retro, that post should be stickied somewhere

Try the mods mate, I always have a copy if anyone is interested... ;D ;)
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2014, 07:33:27 PM »
Retro, that post should be stickied somewhere

Try the mods mate, I always have a copy if anyone is interested... ;D ;)
Well, I am not gonna bug the mods right now...and I don't need a copy because it is information that I already knew.  It's just a very well written and complete article.    ...and it reinds me of some personal experience that I would like to share with the original poster...
      Years ago, before I even owned a computer or had joined this forum, when I got my first cb750, it came with an awful exhaust system.  They were 4 into 2 shorty turnouts that were baffled in such a way that the thing sounded like a stock VW bug.  Performance felt sluggish and poor ground clearance created a nearly unrideable situation.  Not knowing how to find anything better, I ordered up a MAC 4 into1 system and used it happily for quite sometime.
     Now don't get me wrong.  I know Retro will disagree, but I still feel MAC sells a decent product for the money.  Yes, I now know that they are ugly, kinda cheaply made, and just not really very special.  But hey, they are inexpensive and always available.  I don't believe you are losing much power with a MAC and a stock cb550/750.
     After a while I got bored with the MAC.  I still didn't know where to get a better pipe and didn't really have the money for one anyway.  So I decided to modify it.  First up, I drilled the rivet holding the baffle in and wrenched that sucker outta there.  After some main jet fiddling, the bike ran quite well.  The sound was like some sort of unholy trombone amplified to Metallica concert levels...wayyyyy #$%*ing too loud.  I couldn't stand riding like this.   
     So next, I took a look at the baffle I had pulled out.  Maybe I could achieve some sort of happy medium.  The MAC street baffle is rather complex with labyrinthine tubes and holes going every which way, difficult to desribe.  So I hacked one tube off added several holes to the endplate, creating a classic gently baffled straight through design that was a common design and should have been free flowing, and popped it back into the megaphone.  This rewarded me with an aggressive growl that was not too loud.  Only problem was it took me two whole days of tuning to get from barely running to severe flat spot from 4500 to 7000 rpm.  This was also totally unacceptable and I realized I had ruined a perfectly good megaphone muffler.
     My point in all of this is, even with all the best theory, you may not be able to achieve your goals without more testing and tuning resources than you or I have available...or you may hit it just right.  If you do get it right without tons of testing, realize that it is just dumb luck, because the amount of variables affecting how an exhaust performs goes beyond what we can fathom.
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2014, 10:30:50 PM »
Retro, thanks for that post. Its a much more detailed version of a similar article on project motorcycle site. Very good pointers on pipe lengths and diameters.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2014, 10:33:48 PM »
I was thinking of the old "turnout" exhaust that was quite popular "back in the day", the OEM headers were quite good quality and a nice bend, but the mufflers were crap and would rot out faster than an English sports car. You could buy the turn out "4 into 2" mufflers and just hack the rusted out OEM mufflers off, and shove the OEM headers into the mufflers, and voila! A decent looking exhaust system again.

I found one on eBay a few years ago and installed it on my K1, it worked fine on the (then) stock engine except it was way too loud, and I couldn't work out how to install some baffles into each "muffler", or I probably would have kept them on the bike. Cheers, Terry. ;D

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Honda-CB750-K-Custom-Performance-Exhaust-Mufflers-Turnout-Chrome-/151091928662     
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2014, 10:42:46 PM »
Sean, thanks for sharing.

Terry,

     Those turn outs seem to be pretty popular here, especially on the old 750s listed on craigslist. If you used them with stock headers, then that model comes pretty close to what I was working with initially. These look to be straight through pipes. How was the performance with them on the stocker? Specifically did you notice any gains/losses in specific ranges?

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2014, 11:00:37 PM »
G'Day Rafi, all I really remember was the noise. They must have fitted the baffles before they welded the header adapters in, because there was no way I could fit a baffle in through the curved end. I think the bike ran pretty good with them though, I certainly don't remember a noticeable loss of power, flat spots etc.

My mate Davey had a pair on his K2 back in the 1970's after he'd found rust holes in his second set of OEM pipes and they were still on his K2 the last time I saw it in the late 1980's. (He's still got the K2 which he bought new in 1972, but he's moved to Far Northern Queensland)

He was running bigger main jets and K&N pod filters and he rode that bike everywhere, he'd done over 100,000 miles on the original motor without any major work, (he never had the head off until his brother Peter dropped the bike and busted some fins off the head) and I remember that it was a sweet bike to ride. You could probably do worse than to fit a set, although there must be plenty of good used ones around for much less money. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2014, 11:07:51 PM »
Thanks Terry! So in theory, my original concept could still do at least OK, only more quietly. My original concept being stock headers with slightly larger diameter perforated mufflers pipe (4-2, close to the turn outs above) only wrapped with fiber/stainless packing and an outer cone.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2014, 05:58:32 AM »
I had those 4-2 turnouts on my Z1 when I bought it.  They were loud and caused a lot of popping on decel, no back pressure.  Was a good day when I pulled em off...


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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2014, 02:47:14 PM »
G'Day Steve, the most common issue that keeps coming up with them is noise, probably because they are chromed after the baffle is installed and the pipe is welded up, so they can't add fibreglass packing. I quite liked the turnout pipe look on my K1, but the noise pissed me off and I couldn't come up with a solution to repack the baffles without cutting and welding them, which would have ruined the chrome.     
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2014, 07:02:41 PM »
G'Day Steve, the most common issue that keeps coming up with them is noise...

G'Day Terry.....the noise didnt really bother me, I like a loud bike and I always wear a helmet, so that muffles it a bit.
I just don't like the look of the turnout [no offense intended].
Plus, as you know, I wanted to take the Z1 back to stock...


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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2014, 08:40:39 PM »
Since the Z1 has completely different engine (DOHC), I wonder if that is why the performance degradation is so noticeable on it while not so much on the 750??

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2014, 08:42:05 PM »
You're right Steve, they don't look good on a Z1, but on a CB750 with a fat 16 inch tire and lowering blocks it looked pretty sweet. I can't remember if I took a pic of it, and my old hard drive was full of viruses, so I'll just have to put on my rose-colored glasses and remind myself how good those pipes looked............ ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2014, 08:56:08 PM »
I was thinking of the old "turnout" exhaust that was quite popular "back in the day", the OEM headers were quite good quality and a nice bend, but the mufflers were crap and would rot out faster than an English sports car. You could buy the turn out "4 into 2" mufflers and just hack the rusted out OEM mufflers off, and shove the OEM headers into the mufflers, and voila! A decent looking exhaust system again.

I found one on eBay a few years ago and installed it on my K1, it worked fine on the (then) stock engine except it was way too loud, and I couldn't work out how to install some baffles into each "muffler", or I probably would have kept them on the bike. Cheers, Terry. ;D

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Honda-CB750-K-Custom-Performance-Exhaust-Mufflers-Turnout-Chrome-/151091928662     
Yep, those are modern-day copies of the old Jardine 4-2 system. They work(ed) surprisingly well up to about 65 MPH for 2-up touring, owing to the particular baffle that Jardine had selected: it peaked the power at 6000 RPM and quite succinctly above that. While this dropped top-end performance, we saw reports of [some very] high MPG figures come from little more than bolting those on. I have 2 (rusty) sets of them here, now. They have a nice, throaty tone. Both have come off bikes that are being cafe'd, and would like more top-end power now that we can ride 85 MPH around here again.
:)
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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2014, 09:00:16 PM »
For guys who used these turn outs with stock headers, how did you route the header pipes to the small collectors?

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2014, 09:05:01 PM »
G'Day Mark, that makes sense, Jardine still makes nice pipes, I've got one of their "Big Boss" systems on my Triumph Rocket III. I probably didn't ride my 750 over 65 when I had the turnouts (mine are probably Jardines as well as they're pretty old) on my K1, but they felt pretty good. Cheers, Terry. ;D

Rafi, the collectors are designed to slide straight over the OEM headers in their original positions. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2014, 09:08:55 PM »
Thanks Terry. I wasn't quite sure how (especially with that pesky kick stand bracket in the way) did they manage to make them easy bolt ons. I'll look up some pictures to figure out the fit. IIRC, the stock headers run one outside and one inside the frame rail, which is quite the gap to merge....

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2014, 09:09:50 PM »
For guys who used these turn outs with stock headers, how did you route the header pipes to the small collectors?

The old Jardines we had in the States were a pair of slip-on 4-2 pipes that required you cut off the headers from the OEM mufflers in 2 prescribed lengths, then (significantly) flatten the #2 pipe near the kickstand, then wrestle the mufflers onto the headers ON THE BIKE. Many a 750 got knocked over in this process...they came in the side-dump version (similar to the Kawi above, but longer, ending at the rear axle bolt) or a flare-tipped straight version that reached back another 3 inches. The latter were popular for not blowing carbon onto the Bates saddlebags often found above them...
;)
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2014, 09:11:59 PM »
G'Day Mark, that makes sense, Jardine still makes nice pipes, I've got one of their "Big Boss" systems on my Triumph Rocket III. I probably didn't ride my 750 over 65 when I had the turnouts (mine are probably Jardines as well as they're pretty old) on my K1, but they felt pretty good. Cheers, Terry. ;D

Rafi, the collectors are designed to slide straight over the OEM headers in their original positions. ;D

Is Jardine still in the business? Their quality was tops, chrome and heavy metal, good seals. They just weren't the best-performing pipes back then, but at 55 MPH no one noticed.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline bwaller

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2014, 09:18:22 PM »
G'Day Mark, that makes sense, Jardine still makes nice pipes, I've got one of their "Big Boss" systems on my Triumph Rocket III. I probably didn't ride my 750 over 65 when I had the turnouts (mine are probably Jardines as well as they're pretty old) on my K1, but they felt pretty good. Cheers, Terry. ;D

Rafi, the collectors are designed to slide straight over the OEM headers in their original positions. ;D

Is Jardine still in the business? Their quality was tops, chrome and heavy metal, good seals. They just weren't the best-performing pipes back then, but at 55 MPH no one noticed.

Never a truer word spoken and goes for several companies at the time trying to eek out a living on the back of the best selling bikes on the market. Sorry boys, but most of the aftermarket pipes available were #$%*. They were simply replacement exhausts offered to owners not willing to look after the original pipes. There were barely any dyno's then and only the bike magazines could afford to test pipes. (except Mark said he had the opportunity) I remember reading there were maybe three pipes that made any power over stock.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 09:29:44 PM by bwaller »

Offline MiGhost

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Re: Lets talk custom exhausts
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2014, 09:27:40 PM »
Jardine is still around, and still quite active in motorcycle exhaust systems.
http://www.jardineproducts.com/
~ Ghost

Grey Ghost '80 CB650C: Updated Stock Restomod. Period Custom Cruiser (OEM harbags & trunk, Wixom Ranger fairing, Jardine turnouts)
Bad Moon '83 XJ750MK Midnight Maxim: Full Dress Tour Deluxe w/ X-1 Fairing