Author Topic: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.  (Read 7875 times)

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liaudio

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SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« on: October 06, 2006, 08:43:52 AM »
Yes, even cheaper than those $65. Progressive springs... 

Got your attention?  You cheap ass!  (Like me!  ;D)

Get some 1" PVC conduit, cut two pieces about 1.5" long.



Place on top of your existing springs.



Use a socket or wrench and push down hard on to the top cap as you screw down. (A socket is MUCH easier!!!)





Viola!  It'll be a little stiffer, and reduce braking sag.

I replaced the fork oil w/ Bel-Ray 10w oil at the same time as this cheap-ass mod and it feels a whole lot better now.




Peter

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2006, 08:52:00 AM »
Nice detailed photos.  Well Done

liaudio

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2006, 08:53:54 AM »
all i could find at the time was my camera phone too!  Thanks!

Offline nickjtc

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2006, 10:16:08 AM »
Thanks for that. I've heard about it as a mod, but never actually seen how it was done. And presumably you can 'dial in' the amount of preload on the spring by varying the thickness of the spacer.....
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

Offline hymodyne

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2006, 10:25:15 AM »
recently read about folks doing something like this with varying numbers of steel wahsers...any risk of the plastic breaking down or otherwise coming apart due to the oil environment within the fork?

hym
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Offline andy750

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2006, 10:32:33 AM »
I did this same mod years ago (2001) before my Boston-Mexico trip. I also ugraded to Progressive springs so it was a double bonus -really made a big difference and years later (and 25,000 miles later) the plastic inserts were the same as the day they had been out in. No degradation. Only hard part was getting them back in again -i didnt manage it. :-(

Cheers
Andy in Boston
Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico, 2003 - European Tour, 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip , 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. Yamaha Tenere T700 2022

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline martini

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2006, 01:29:13 PM »
I love this forum, what a great idea.

Offline Nate

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2006, 01:31:52 PM »
HAHA! I just saved $70 on my front end rebuild coming up this winter! Thanks

Offline ProTeal55

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2006, 03:00:04 PM »
Great Idea - and pics...
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends

Offline cleveland

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2006, 03:24:16 PM »
What does that do to "upgrade" your forks?  ???

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2006, 03:26:19 PM »
I wondered that also. Seems about the same as "notching" up your rear shocks to the next setting. Wouldn't it just be preload and make them stiffer?
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

southbound

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2006, 03:30:25 PM »
I might try this, but with some cheap shallow 1"  impact sockets.   a little shorter, but the same width...

My worry would be that the PVC might shatter.  

Offline nickjtc

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2006, 03:34:01 PM »
I wondered that also. Seems about the same as "notching" up your rear shocks to the next setting. Wouldn't it just be preload and make them stiffer?

I think you're right, Bob. I guess the idea is to take up some slack; as the springs 'age' don't they get shorter?
Nick J. Member #3247

2008 Triumph Tiger 1050
1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

liaudio

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2006, 03:42:02 PM »
On most modern bikes I've owned, they have preload adjustment caps on each fork leg.

The old CB's don't have them so this is just a way to increase preload. 

Offline Tim.

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2006, 04:05:44 PM »
Man, I thought putting washers in your front forks was old-school stuff - I'd ditch the PVC and get some heavy duty thick washers.  The PVC will wear down if nothing else, and you'll get bits of PVC down in your dampening bits and they'll never come out when you drain the oil.
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Offline Nate

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2006, 07:25:58 PM »
Wouldn't the washer rattle from time to time? Maybe metal conduit would be a better choice of materials, still be just as cheap.

Offline ttr400

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2006, 03:11:30 AM »
Whatever you choose to use to pre-load the springs wether metal or plastic is fine, Many modern sport bikes use plastic spacers in the forks.  On my CB400F I can adjust the pre-load from the top of the forks just like a modern bike.  I'll get round to making some for the 750 one of these days.

The question is....Do we know for what reason and the effects it will have to do this???
For me tuning my suspension to the best it can be(given the limitations in the design and adjustability) is as important as tuning the motor for optimum performance.  Setting up suspension can and is a confusing task that not many riders understand.  I raced a RVF400 for a few years and what I  have learned is from trial and error and talking to more knowledgable racers than myself.
Go to a track day and I suspect 9 out of 10 riders of modern bikes do not have a clue how to set up there bikes suspension.

This is what I have learned and I am most definitely no expert.  You can find many articles on the web so check them out.

We should be setting the suspension up to be able to use the full travel available without bottoming out.   How do we do this?
Well the first setting to address is the suspension pre-load. This is for the front forks. It is best to have a second person to help and supply the beers..!!

Step 1. Stand bike up level with no rider on board, stand at front of bike and pull up on the bars forks fully extended.  Measure from say the top of the dust seal to the underside of the lower tree and record the measurement.

Step 2. Stand bike up level with the weight of the bike only on the suspension. (pump the forks a bit between measurements) Now take a measurement from the same place as is step one.

Step 3. Sit on the bike with both wheels on the ground and feet on the pegs, make sure your helper is holding the bike upright from the back of the seat/fender, if he/she is drinking more beer than helping..!! then well yes you will fall over....!!!! Actually this one needs a third person to measure from the same place as in steps 1 and 2, record the measurement.

Ok what do we have here? we have measurements for static sag and rider sag.
Static sag = measurement from step 1 minus measurement from step 2 = ideally should be around 25-30mm.
Rider sag = measurement from step 1 minus measurement from step 3 = ideally should be around 35-45mm.

If you are a heavy rider and need to incease the pre-load to maintain the rider sag figure, this may remove the static sag figures.  If this is the case then you need harder springs.
If you are a lightweight and need to decrease the pre-load for rider sag figure, this might end up with too much static sag. Then this will require lighter springs.
Another quick check is to put a tie cable around the fork tubes and set it at the bottom not too tight,(look at modern race bikes they all have them)  go and ride the bike normally, cornering, braking,pot holes etc.  this will show you how much of the travel you are using and will be a starting point for which direction to proceed with setting up pre-load.

These steps 1-3 should be performed for the rear suspension as well.
Static sag Rear = 5-10mm
Rider sag Rear = 30-40mm

Now with our machines we do not have the option for adjusting the compresion or rebound damping.
Our only thing we can do is experiment with the fork oil weights or by changing the hole sizes in the damping tubes.

With my 400 racer and my road 400's I use a fork oil of 10weight. with an air gap of 100mm, most sport bikes use air gaps of 90-100mm.
To set your air gap (ignore the cc volume in the manual) with springs removed and the forks compressed, fill with fork oil until the level is 100mm from the top of the fork tube.

Sorry about the long post but I was on a roll and thought this might help get a better understanding and get our machines to perform as best as they can.

Kevin.
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Cb400F- 466 Yoshi Cafe.
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Offline Roach Carver

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2006, 05:33:52 AM »
not too long. thanks. i need to write that down so I dont forget it.

Offline nickjtc

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2006, 07:29:58 AM »
not too long. thanks. i need to write that down so I dont forget it.


Meouw ::)
Nick J. Member #3247

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1977 Suzuki GS750

"That which does not kill us reminds us to wear proper motorcycle clothing...."

Offline cleveland

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2006, 07:34:46 AM »
Kevin,

I could not have asked for a better explination.

Thanks, cleveland

Offline Ernie

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2006, 09:16:01 AM »
good post kevin and btw i checked out your website,wow  :o  a virtual treasure trove for cb 400 owners, ive been wanting that exact points cover for a long time but cant find one for a 550k  ;)
Its all happening !
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Honda CBer

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2006, 07:59:47 AM »
i did that to my 750 (the spacers) and ended up with a very stiff ride... felt every variation in pavement... helped cornering and brake dive...

while it DOES stiffen the forks, since you are just increasing the preload, it is stiffer in ALL points of the travel... the big cheese about progressive rate springs is just that: the spring-rate increases as the spring is compressed.. that way, you still have some cusion against small bumps and road imprefections, while fighting dive and compression in hard cornering...

and no, the springs do not shorten as they age (well, not appreciably)... they do lose tensile strength, which in this application reduces spring rate, i.e. softer springs...

Offline hondachopproject

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2006, 01:28:33 PM »
Does this add any heigth/length to the forks? Does it raise the front?
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Offline STLrocker

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2006, 03:21:35 PM »
i can assure everyone that the pvc will be strong enough. it will not shatter, chip, or wear. the pvc spacers arent moving, and nothing is moving against them, so they have nothing to wear them. they will take the loads just fine. i have them my bike.

 a lot of aftermarket extended fork tubes come with pvc spacers, and they are much longer than the ones discussed here. the ones in my bike are 8" long.

Roastem

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Re: SUPER Cheap Front Fork Upgrade.
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2006, 06:23:07 AM »
I agree without anythign moving against them there is very little concern of them breaking, or wearing.  the only concern woudl be if they dried out from sitting in the sun and became brittle. and being closed in and having oil around them i dont think there is any worry of that........ just dont use the pvc that has been sittin behind your shed for 10yrs.