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Author Topic: Which 2 were fastes, most desirable & iconic alternatives to the CB750K in 70s?  (Read 3856 times)

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Offline Stev-o

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Quote from:  link=topic=144002.msg1639754#msg1639754 date=1420870947
Quote from: =topic=144002.msg1639603#msg1639603 [/quote


I've started looking for a Z1 but... boy, what prices for one in good conditions! Higher than the CB750 K1! In line with a K0!




Z1 prices are typically higher than the K1 over here.   Keep in mind that there were approx only 80,000 Z1 manufactured over 3 model years, not a big number. 
There were over 600,000 CB750's manufactured over approx 10 years.
The early Z's pricing can be very much higher than the later ones even though there are only minor changes. 
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'71 Honda 750K project.....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer.....K5 Fiddy Dolla Special!......CB500 Fiddy Dolla Special too!!............plus plus plus.........

Offline ascanio1

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... hmmm ... I might be getting tight on finances to complete the garage. I thought that I could do it with 12/15k$. Might have to stop at a CB750 and a Z1. The GS1000 or Laverda1000 might not make it!  :(

Offline PeWe

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I remember the Kawasaki 500 Mach3 when I was very young.  WOW what a bike!

Then Kawasaki 750, also 2 stroke. I heard that the engine was mounted too far back in the frame so wheelies could no be avoided. I was thinking about buying one when I found my CB750. Got the advice that the CB750 was safer to ride. No 2 stroke temperament that can get wet plugs that suddenly wakes up like a mad rocket.

Next wow bike was Kawasaki Z1 900, very beautiful and still is.
The later 1000 with disk brake rear also looking good. The Suzuki GS750 and GS1000 were not better than CB750 and Kawasaki 900/1000 that mostly were upgraded by the owners and quicker. Suzuki od not have anything until the GSX1100.

Laverda had a special sound, very hard engine sound. Collectable bike that will cost some.
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Offline ascanio1

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@PeWe

The poll clearly shows that the Z1 & H1 were the next best thing. I'm in the process of searching for a Z1 and a Jota (or maybe a std 1000 3 cyl). Didn't think it would become so expensive...  :(

In any case, don't let other members hear what you say about the GS or you will start a war!  ;D some swear that the GS was by a long shot the fastest of all those bikes! I was not there and I can't say so  :-X

Thanks for the recollections... nice to hear how these bikes were received at the time.

Offline PeWe

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One Z1-900 was for sale here a few months ago, located in Germany by a forum member. Looked like new.
Finding a good bike like this!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=142824.msg1621343#msg1621343

It will probably cost more to restore an old cheaper bike that need new 4-4, tank, side covers, seat and all other paint details + engine restore.
CB750 K6-76 1005cc JMR Billet block.
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Offline ascanio1

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I am negotiating a similar, perfect, Z1 in the US for 9,000$. I'm checking shipping costs. Thanks for pointing this one to me as a comparison. Appreciated.

Kawasaki Z series: 13
Kawasaki H series: 12

Close call!  :)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 06:37:50 pm by ascanio1 »

Offline Stev-o

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I am negotiating a similar, perfect, Z1 in the US for 9,000$. I'm checking shipping costs. Thanks for pointing this one to me as a comparison. Appreciated.

Kawasaki Z series: 13
Kawasaki H series: 12

Close call!  :)

A perfect Z1 for $9K would be a good deal.   Link?

I've been told shipping from Texas to Japan is approx $3K.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'71 Honda 750K project.....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer.....K5 Fiddy Dolla Special!......CB500 Fiddy Dolla Special too!!............plus plus plus.........

Offline ascanio1

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Hello SteveO,

Here is the link http://denver.freeclassifieds.com/classified_ads/Vehicles_For_Sale/Motorcycles/oGl1iH9NjlJu0O-GwJseTw== I am verifying the costs with U-Ship and 3K$ seems the price to be paid, more or less.

The  problem is that the seller requires the shipper to release the funds to him at the time of delivery of the bike to me. A sort of PayPal/Shipper. I'm looking into it right now.


Offline Stev-o

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I've seen that ad before, be aware, could be a scam.  Ask the seller if you can have a friend check out the bike, we can find someone in Denver (my niece lives there).
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'71 Honda 750K project.....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer.....K5 Fiddy Dolla Special!......CB500 Fiddy Dolla Special too!!............plus plus plus.........

Offline 750cafe

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Sounds like a scam to me also.  >:(
How eager are you to part with almost 10 Grand to never see it again or a bike?

Eric
Is there anything more fun than riding? They are between your legs and are quiet when you turn them off.

Offline ascanio1

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SteveO & Eric,

I know... I had that same feeling...
- refuses PayPal,
- email replies aver very brief.
 
I put 3 conditions (waiting for reply):
1) send me title & ID photo;
2) gives me a landline number which I can verify;
3) I choose & do all arrangements with shipping company.

If he agrees it's fine otherwise I'll keep looking. Now that I know that your niece lives there I will also ask him if I can have someone visit & check title/bike/owner. Great help, thanks!


In any case, thanks for the heads-up: I really do appreciate your help/concern! This forum has been really instrumental in so many ways...

Who are the founders of this forum/website? Do you know?

Offline LesterPiglet

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The Suzuki GS750 was a revelation and out did the Honda in every way....and I'm not a Suzuki fan!
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline ascanio1

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SteveO & Eric,

The guy has not replied. I guess that it's another scam. It's just incredible how much cr*p is out there!
I wrote to the original shipping company which the seller offered and they do exist. However they do NOT offer that service. This is another indication that it's a scam...

Tommaso

Offline ascanio1

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The Suzuki GS750 was a revelation and out did the Honda in every way....and I'm not a Suzuki fan!
It might very well have been a revelation but the poll shows that the 2 Kawasaki were more flamboyant/memorable icons at the time. It's often the fate with perfect bikes: they don't get the fame which they deserve simply because they do their job, perfectly, without appearing: substance not show & form!

Offline LesterPiglet

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There are three categories listed though. I don't think one bikes fits all three.
fastest, most iconic & desirable

'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline Stev-o

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I don't think one bikes fits all three.
fastest, most iconic & desirable



Disagree.  The Z1 was.....but this can be subjective.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'71 Honda 750K project.....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer.....K5 Fiddy Dolla Special!......CB500 Fiddy Dolla Special too!!............plus plus plus.........

Offline ascanio1

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Well... why don't we make the question: "Which bike possessed these 3 qualities the most?"

I like to think that the Laverda 1000 was the fastest, most iconic and desirable bike of the 70's but it looks like I am wrong!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 06:43:46 am by ascanio1 »

Offline 750cafe

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Google reviews of the Z1 and many other Kwackers of the '70's and 80's and you will see them as being referred to as having "hinged frames".
Even with added gussets in many locations throughout the frame, they still were dangerous when pressed hard. If you look closely at the '84 GPZ
750 Turbo bikes, you will see that the factory added more gussets to those frames over the non-turbo bikes. The added factory gussets were still
not enough to make them handle much better.
While you are at it, google reviews on the '78 Suzuki GS1000 and you will see that the were the cream of the crop at the time and for years to come.


Eric
Is there anything more fun than riding? They are between your legs and are quiet when you turn them off.

Offline NobleHops

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The Z1 and the GS750. The two-stroke triples were on the wane by the end of the decade, but the late 70s DOHC bikes had well eclipsed them by then IMO.
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Offline ascanio1

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Z1 Vs Z900
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2015, 02:49:13 am »
I found a KZ900, '76, single owner, 4,970 miles only, not restored, perfectly maintained always indoor, w/ brilliant and shiny chrome, perfect paint, no scratches... mechanics completely revised not much was necessary. Now compression is 100% of original std, perfect clutch, new brakes and master cylinder, exhausts are clean and no holes, etc etc... even original maintenance booklet w/ owner's name and all the maintenance invoices/receipts. Original tools and original user manual booklet. Now it has a corbin on but the original seat is available.

In 2 words: show condition.

It is arriving in April in Tokyo and I am 100% sure it's not a scam. I trust the guy who's re-selling it. What's it worth? Remember it is not a Z1...

Is there much difference between a Z1 and a KZ900 in terms of both the economic value and the mechanics/cosmetics?

Offline Stev-o

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The Z1 was made in Japan, in smaller numbers, and imported to the United States. Starting with the 1976 KZ900 the bikes were built in the US in much larger numbers.
The limited production (approx 82K) is part of what makes the Z1 more valuable.

The main difference in the motor between the Z1 and a KZ900 is the carbs, Z1 will have 28mm Mikunis and the KZ900 has smaller 26mm Mikunis.


Main differences are on the front end.  In '76, Kawasaki changed the gauges and the gauge bracket. Forks no longer had reflectors, had different caliper, front hub, seat lock and battery tray.
I have heard that the tubing the frame was thicker on the KZ's.



'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'71 Honda 750K project.....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer.....K5 Fiddy Dolla Special!......CB500 Fiddy Dolla Special too!!............plus plus plus.........

Offline ascanio1

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The Z1 was made in Japan, in smaller numbers, and imported to the United States. Starting with the 1976 KZ900 the bikes were built in the US in much larger numbers. The limited production (approx 82K) is part of what makes the Z1 more valuable.
The main difference in the motor between the Z1 and a KZ900 is the carbs, Z1 will have 28mm Mikunis and the KZ900 has smaller 26mm Mikunis.
Main differences are on the front end.  In '76, Kawasaki changed the gauges and the gauge bracket. Forks no longer had reflectors, had different caliper, front hub, seat lock and battery tray.
I have heard that the tubing the frame was thicker on the KZ's.
Why did they reduce the diameter of the carbs?

What about the economic value? How much would you pay for a show condition Z1 and a show condition KZ900?

Offline HondaMan

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@ Trueblue,
Do you mean this one:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GT750  ?
I am not knowledgeable about the 70's... what do other members think? Was it the fastest and most head turning of the time? To me it sounds like a very good contender... If I understand correctly this one replaced the H2, right? And was sold before the GS750, right? It was certainly an important milestone in motorcycle industry. Wikipedia says it was the first water cooled & the first double front disk brakes. What about performances with respect to the CB750K?



The H1/H2/H3 was outlawed in many large cities, due to its extreme smokescreen when flying down freeway on-ramps. Kawi later solved this by doing what Suzy had done in their GT550/750 3-cylinder 2-strokers: they added some suction valves in the crankcase to pull the oil accumulation out on a more consistent basis while riding, to avoid the buildup. But, by 1975 the 2-stroke street bikes' handwriting was on the wall, due to the smoky Kawi triples, as several big cities (LA, Chicago, NY, Atlanta, among others) would simply not license the bikes, and some cops (at least in Chicago) were ticketing the riders by using the "too much smoke" ordinances against worn-out cars in those days.  :(  Most of these ordinances were later beaten back in the courts, but like today's situations, the damage was already done.

The Kawi Z1 tried to dominate the street in the mid-1970s, but guys like me kept putting it back in its place with the CB750. ;)
The GT750 was very heavy for its day (54 lbs more [bare] than my Vetter-equipped 750K2, by our local trucker scales' reports). It had one major advantage over all the others that even Craig Vetter liked so much he bought one and rode for many years: it's powerband in 5th gear started at 48 MPH and pulled like a locomotive to 90 MPH, so it was always "on tap" when touring. Touring was HUGE in the 1970s and 1980s, probably 5x more than today (based on my wet-finger observations on interstates as I cruise the country for work), and the Z1 was too buzzy for most rider's tastes in that service. The CB and the GT750s dominated this activity until the GL1000 appeared.

When the Kawi improved into the KZ1000 series, it challenged even the GL for touring service, and the police especially loved them. They could idle for 30 minutes alone, or run to 130 MPH in a few seconds, a great pursuit bike!
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Offline Stev-o

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Quote

The Kawi Z1 tried to dominate the street in the mid-1970s, but guys like me kept putting it back in its place with the CB750


Hondaman - You saying your 736cc CB was faster than the 903cc Z1?
Mine sure isnt.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'71 Honda 750K project.....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer.....K5 Fiddy Dolla Special!......CB500 Fiddy Dolla Special too!!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Retro Rocket

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Quote

The Kawi Z1 tried to dominate the street in the mid-1970s, but guys like me kept putting it back in its place with the CB750


Hondaman - You saying your 736cc CB was faster than the 903cc Z1?
Mine sure isnt.

I don't think so Steve, I think Mark is saying what i've said here before, A well piloted 750/4 was quite capable of showing up the old Kawasaki, especially in the twisties, I pissed off a few of my mates in the exact same way, including the first model Z1000... ;) 8)
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