Topic: Got Brakes? Quad Rotors

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Beringer Quad Rotors for a Ducati.  Not for a vintage Honda, but cool anyway:

[FunJimmy]

Would be interesting to see how the centre pad system works.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Jimmy,

I'll see if Ian can take a photo of the inner portion where the calipers meet between the discs.  He's in the middle of making a girder fork for this bike.

Don

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

http://aftermarket.beringer-brakes.com/en/26-4d-braking-system-motorcycle

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Jimmy,

I'll see if Ian can take a photo of the inner portion where the calipers meet between the discs.  He's in the middle of making a girder fork for this bike.

Don

Here you go, Jim:

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

The power gain compared to a Ø320mm cast iron disc is 20%, which allows to the riders to shorten their braking distances significantly. Some comparative tests have shown the obviousness of this gain as well as a lower temperature of the discs.

Maneuverability improvement of the motorbike: the gyroscopic inertia of the quadruple disc is 3 times lower than the inertia of Ø320mm discs and 30% lower than the inertia of carbon discs, which is the main advantage of this system. For example, the transit time through a chicane or the time necesary to lean on angle is highly reduced.

Weight saving is significant compared to standard systems :       
CAST IRON DISCS Ø320mm weight : 1950 g    //   QUADRUPLE DISC Ø230mm weight: 1460 g
The 980 grams saved in non suspended weight improve the grip of the front wheel and the acceleration of the bike.

Lifetime much higher
In fact, tests have shown a small wear of the system, which allows to consider a lifetime well above the average.

[Retro Rocket]

For the central pad to work the discs would have to float sideways so pressure could be added to the inside of the discs, the outer pads would effectively push the disc onto the central pad as theres no way the pad can be pushed in 2 directions to contact the inside of the 2 discs...?..?

[simon#42]

i dont see how they can have 30% less inertia than a carbon disc , they only weigh 700g
those discs look heavy probably 5 times the weight of the carbon .

[calj737]

Berringer makes some pretty cool and highly reputable brakes. But honestly, I "ain't getting it" with these. I challenge their claim of weight savings using extra calipers and pads and rotors as being more advantageous than modern dual calipers and 2 modern rotors comparatively. Better braking power, okay, I'll agree that may be true. But composite rotors and pads and mono bloc calipers are extremely capable of stopping Superbikes on a dime.

So I am curious but dubious- (not that anyone cares)

[FunJimmy]

If these where the bees knees in brakes they'd be on every MotoGP bike already. What I can't reconcile is the increasing lateral stresses applied to the twin rotors as the static central pad wears. I also question the weight comparison of a competition grade 320mm rotor and caliper to the twin rotor, caliper and essentially dual pads/caliper. Setup. I don't think Brembo has to worry to much about their market superiority.

[754]

I bet cost is a huge factor..

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

If these where the bees knees in brakes they'd be on every MotoGP bike already. What I can't reconcile is the increasing lateral stresses applied to the twin rotors as the static central pad wears. I also question the weight comparison of a competition grade 320mm rotor and caliper to the twin rotor, caliper and essentially dual pads/caliper. Setup. I don't think Brembo has to worry to much about their market superiority.

You would think that to be the case, but in GP bikes the rules do not allow for quad brakes.  For dry riding conditions, the bikes use 2 carbon front brake rotors -- like F1 race cars -- and may be a maximum diameter of 320mm.  GP bikes can use 2 front steel rotors in rain.  Carbon rotors require higher operating temperatures and can sustain high performance braking under such brutal conditions.  At the Qatar GP night races, you can see the rotors glowing red under heavy braking.  Beringer does not manufacture carbon brake rotors in either its conventional or quad set up -- only steel.

By your logic, if quad discs were really so damn great, companies like Brembo would license Beringer/Aerotec's patent and make quad carbon brakes.  Or the would be used in other race series like WSBK.  Interesting.   A race engineer at Brembo probably knows the answers  At $2600, these Beringer brake systems won't be flying off the stocking shelves to consumers.

The guy who owns this bike said that the brakes were almost binary (on/off) when he was getting the pads worn in and that they provide 

[mec]

oem on Brough Superior SS 2014



mec

[01Thomas]

These brakes are something else, advantageous or not. But in the first two photos look at the wheel's spokes and how they're fastened to the rim. It's a different take on BMWs "spoked tubeless" rims that I haven't seen before.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

These brakes are something else, advantageous or not. But in the first two photos look at the wheel's spokes and how they're fastened to the rim. It's a different take on BMWs "spoked tubeless" rims that I haven't seen before.

A "different" and expensive take on spoked tubeless wheels.  I believe those are Kineo wheels.  Approximately 1,000-1,500 Euros per wheel!!!    I think I am going to be sick!

[calj737]

They are Kineos, easy to spot the nipple at the rim. Some are more affordable than 1k Euros, but they all are premium priced.

[01Thomas]

You be sick and that'll make two of us!

[simon#42]

not so bad , the first carbon discs i bought were £6000 each , thankfully they are much cheaper now .

[Retro Rocket]

If these where the bees knees in brakes they'd be on every MotoGP bike already. What I can't reconcile is the increasing lateral stresses applied to the twin rotors as the static central pad wears. I also question the weight comparison of a competition grade 320mm rotor and caliper to the twin rotor, caliper and essentially dual pads/caliper. Setup. I don't think Brembo has to worry to much about their market superiority.

You would think that to be the case, but in GP bikes the rules do not allow for quad brakes.  For dry riding conditions, the bikes use 2 carbon front brake rotors -- like F1 race cars -- and may be a maximum diameter of 320mm.  GP bikes can use 2 front steel rotors in rain.  Carbon rotors require higher operating temperatures and can sustain high performance braking under such brutal conditions.  At the Qatar GP night races, you can see the rotors glowing red under heavy braking.  Beringer does not manufacture carbon brake rotors in either its conventional or quad set up -- only steel.

By your logic, if quad discs were really so damn great, companies like Brembo would license Beringer/Aerotec's patent and make quad carbon brakes.  Or the would be used in other race series like WSBK.  Interesting.   A race engineer at Brembo probably knows the answers  At $2600, these Beringer brake systems won't be flying off the stocking shelves to consumers.

The guy who owns this bike said that the brakes were almost binary (on/off) when he was getting the pads worn in and that they provide

I don't believe the hype for one minute Don, sorry bud but, modern monoblock brakes or even the six pots of earlier bikes are already at the limit of how good brakes can stop a bike, you can easily raise the rear under braking and that there, is the limit my friend, brake any harder and you are face planting the road. The only way to make a conventional motorcycle stop any faster is to redesign the complete front suspension and redesign the tires. Motogp could use these brakes if they chose to, motogp is a prototype series, everything they use or do that works will work its way into raod bikes, its always been like that... The rules in Motogp state that "MotoGP bikes must have a minimum of one brake on each wheel that is independently operated", from that i assume you could use 10 rotors if you could find somewhere to hang them...

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I don't think will be putting any quad brakes on any of my bikes any time soon, but they sure do look cool. 

There is such a thing as too much brake power.  When your brakes don't allow for modulation, it can be downright unsafe.  The fact that this guy had to deal with brakes that bite that hard during the bed in process is a little sketchy.

I think the Brembo racing monoblocks will work for Rossi and Marquez for the time being. 

[simon#42]

actually brakes are a problem at the moment in motogp , the bikes are getting faster and heavier and at some circuits they have real problems with fade . the rules state the discs can be a maximum of 320mm but at motegi last year some teams had so much trouble they were allowed to use the new brembo 340mm discs . the problem isn't stoping power its fade , a motogp bike would melt those twin rotor disks in a lap .
they were never made for performance , just like the rest of the cafe scene its all just for show .

[Retro Rocket]

I don't think will be putting any quad brakes on any of my bikes any time soon, but they sure do look cool. 

There is such a thing as too much brake power.  When your brakes don't allow for modulation, it can be downright unsafe.  The fact that this guy had to deal with brakes that bite that hard during the bed in process is a little sketchy.

I think the Brembo racing monoblocks will work for Rossi and Marquez for the time being. 

Yep, I think Behringer like building complicated looking parts, they make some very cool stuff but i don't necessarily think its better, i don't think its bad either, just not ground breaking ....

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I think that in a dry MotoGP race, you might risk not only fade but possibly warping the quad rotors (even though they are floating rotors).  Simon, I would disagree that these brakes are purely for show.  Unlike a pair of Firestones or steampunk adornments, they will stop you faster than most stock brakes. 

I think Mick hit it on the head -- interesting and cool looking, but not a ground breaking revolution in braking performance.  For hard street riding, I am sure these quads would provide more than enough braking power, but so would a great pair of Brembo monoblock calipers. 

[Retro Rocket]

I'm with Simon, the heat generated at Motogp pace wouldn't warp those rotors, it would simply melt them.. The Behringers would be fine for the road, if you could afford them,  but i'd go with mono blocks every time...