Author Topic: getting younger sibbling to cb550k - a xl250 (Read 4980 times)

cb550fnewb · « **on:** January 06, 2015, 06:53:03 PM »

This weekend I will picking up a 1976 xl250 from a friend for $350. Its running just needs some attention to an oil leak and apparent none of the lights are currently working, hoping fuse or batt issue. Will make a nice addition to my 76 cb550k for the rough roads here in southern utah.

Photos to come hoping it will be as reliable as my cb550 and road worth for safety inspection before spring.

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2015, 08:04:07 PM »

cool, I wouldn't mind finding an older one. Be sure and post pics.

scunny · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2015, 10:59:20 PM »

that would be a motorsport then. + 1 on the pics

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2015, 11:12:50 AM »

here is the only picture i have seen of it. It is over 2 hours away and all that matters to me is it runs and stops and has a title.

I did not realize it was motorsport. She does not no much about it other than it runs and leaks a little oil. Would guess that she could be wrong on the year. I do not know too much about them so one picture does tell me much about year/motorsport or not.

Tugboat · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2015, 03:00:43 PM »

HEY! Note that the '76 XL250 was a one-year model. The frame, exhaust & head are different on the earlier ones, there wasn't a '77 model in the States, and in '78 they moved to a dual-header exhaust. A lot of the parts won't swap over. Not saying don't buy it, but I just went through this last year (read about it here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132256.0) and wanted to give you a heads-up. Good luck!

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2015, 06:48:02 PM »

Quote from: Tugboat on January 07, 2015, 03:00:43 PM

HEY! Note that the '76 XL250 was a one-year model. The frame, exhaust & head are different on the earlier ones, there wasn't a '77 model in the States, and in '78 they moved to a dual-header exhaust. A lot of the parts won't swap over. Not saying don't buy it, but I just went through this last year (read about it here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132256.0) and wanted to give you a heads-up. Good luck!

That is good to know. I think I will still go with this one since its from a trusted friend and think price is resemble. I am mainly looking to reduce wear to my 4x4 truck this summer. If i get it to run reliable and pass inspection, I will run through the summer and may resell it come next winter since I am a seasonal employee and only have room for the cb550 in my trailer (and it was given to me by my father-in-law so it is here to stay).

I have one question if anyone can chime in: My understanding is the bike has a small battery to operate. If the battery is bad or low can it cause the bike to operate fine but the lights (all of them) not function at all. The bike as no lights working.

754 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2015, 09:02:54 PM »

As far as I know they stayed in 72 or73. As with the 350. Up to 76 or so was side port, single pipe. Then they changed to twin pipes.. And call them center port.
If it has the stock exhaust shield it say Motorsport on it.

becken · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2015, 06:33:05 AM »

My second bike was a 72 or 73 xl250, all silver, bought new. I loved that bike. The battery was just there to run the lights and could be easily removed with a quick disconnect. The headlight had its own coil in the alternator and ran on alternating current. I'm not sure if any of that was changed on the 76.

Tugboat · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:28:04 AM »

It has three coils in the alternator: one runs the ignition, one runs the headlight and the other charges the battery (which runs the tail/brake light & turn signals). The bike will run without a battery, but you'll have no tail/brake lights or signals. No biggie if you're in the woods tho.

tbpmusic · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2015, 10:35:18 AM »

You'll like it - great for Southern Utah (where exactly??).
Kick start with clutch pulled in like a real dirt bike, some gruntage because it's a single, good power-slider too. Play with the sprockets to get what you want.
Sadly, it's a 6-volt system, so that was always a PIB even when new.
The bike shares nothing with the SL series, and that's good.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2015, 12:18:49 PM »

Quote from: Tugboat on January 08, 2015, 10:28:04 AM

It has three coils in the alternator: one runs the ignition, one runs the headlight and the other charges the battery (which runs the tail/brake light & turn signals). The bike will run without a battery, but you'll have no tail/brake lights or signals. No biggie if you're in the woods tho.

The light have to work for the inspection so hoping I can get the lights functions even if it is just for a day

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2015, 12:23:05 PM »

Quote from: tbpmusic on January 08, 2015, 10:35:18 AM

You'll like it - great for Southern Utah (where exactly??).
Kick start with clutch pulled in like a real dirt bike, some gruntage because it's a single, good power-slider too. Play with the sprockets to get what you want.
Sadly, it's a 6-volt system, so that was always a PIB even when new.
The bike shares nothing with the SL series, and that's good.

I live/work in Capitol Reef NP. I do not have any experience on dirt bikes so any off-roading will be pretty mild to ATV roads on the Forest Service.

754 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2015, 01:18:38 PM »

Iwas wrong does not say Motorsport on the pipe.. At least the one I have.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2015, 02:35:43 PM »

Pictures to come Saturday as long as she locates the title in time. Hopefully the trouble shooting will be easy to get it registered by spring.

tbpmusic · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2015, 10:49:02 AM »

Quote from: cb550fnewb on January 08, 2015, 12:23:05 PM

I live/work in Capitol Reef NP. I do not have any experience on dirt bikes so any off-roading will be pretty mild to ATV roads on the Forest Service.

I used to hang out in the Kanab area quite a bit, I love that country.......if I could have found work, I'd have moved there decades ago. Not many jobs for a chemist, though.
This will be a great bike for your application......enjoy.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #15 on:** January 11, 2015, 02:14:02 PM »

Got it and now need help.

I got the bike to start after some effort and fresh gas. I let it warm up and I could not turn of choke or it would die. Finally it die and I could not get it to start again so I took apart the carb and found that the main set was completely plugged. After air compressor and soaking in brake cleaner I finally got it opened up and reassembled everything.

Still could not get it to start back up and noticed the cap on the spark plug and the wire did not look very good, so I trimmed it and took a cap and plug off my cb500 (same exact plug that was in it). It fired right up.

I then let it idle 5 minutes (would only get down to 4000 rpms but I figured I would take it for a ride and make sure the transmission was function correctly before worrying about anything else. Stalled and would not start.

Not sure what is going on. Am I correct to think that the coil packs could be getting warm then failing to give spark? I am going to try and start it again in a few minutes and see if it will start after cooling.

Any ideas on what to check? I am getting gas for sure.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #16 on:** January 11, 2015, 03:52:18 PM »

I cannot get it to start at all and appears to not have spark. I am having trouble kicking and looking at the spark plug for a spark by myself.

Also while checking the points alignment, I noticed oil in with the generator under the cover. Am I right that oil should not be in that compartment? Looked like if you laid the bike on its side that oil could flow into it so I am not sure if I have a leak or it was laying on its side.

Anyways I can not get it to start at all what should I check next?

I thought about putting another new spark plug in it and see if it will start which I might try tomorrow if the weather is decent. Could the bike be fouling them enough to stop it from starting from being to rich? Spark plug looked brown and wet when I took it out.

scottly · « **Reply #17 on:** January 11, 2015, 06:05:12 PM »

Does the bike have a battery? If so, check the voltage and/or recharge it.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #18 on:** January 11, 2015, 06:24:21 PM »

It has a battery that is dead. Will this have an affect on starting it? Your suppose to be able to drop the lights and battery and just kick it but if it will give me a little more spark might help.

scottly · « **Reply #19 on:** January 11, 2015, 06:32:55 PM »

Yeah, the battery might give it more spark, but try turning the switch to lights on with the headlight unplugged and see how it starts. I had a '66 C200 that the battery would gradually go dead, and hitting the horn or rear brake would kill the motor: when this happened, I would head for home and charge the battery. I finally figured out that all I had to do was switch the lights on, which kicked in an extra coil in the alternator to provide extra power.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #20 on:** January 11, 2015, 07:12:48 PM »

Okay I will try that. Right now I have my carb in pieces and my needle is set to the highest groove. Which I think is the leanest option. 3rd is stock and usually a little rich (plus I am at 5600ft) so I switch it to the 4th from the bottom to be closer to factory. I will charge the battery tomorrow and try turning the head light on with it unplugged.

If I can get it started again I will mess with the idle and mixture screws to see if I can get it to keep running. I am thinking that someone has messed with the carb a bit with the needle moved to leanest and the fact that I could start it with a blocked main jet.

Think spark is the current problem.

Also idle screw was out over 2 turns so I tighten it up to the factory 1 1/4.

754 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 11, 2015, 08:33:48 PM »

If the battery is gone, usually starts fine, mine does . If idle circuit is dirty , always willbstart harder unless you prime it. But you know it runs so its probably ok. Are both cables on the carb, should be able to get lower idle.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2015, 08:49:12 PM »

First time I got it running I let it run for 5 minutes (it was about 40 degrees here) and I could not put the choke in without it stalling. I don't remember the RPMs being very high for being choked.

After cleaning the carb, it would only run with the choke off and +half throttle. It ran for 10 minutes at 4000 rpms and I tried to take it for a ride and died as soon as I let the clutch out. I then pulled the spark plug/cap and replaced it with an used one from my cb550 and it started right back up and died the same as above.

I now have carb set back to factory settings and cleaned the air filter. I will reassemble after a morning duck hunt tomorrow. Unfortunately, I do not have a garage and my cb550 is filling my trailer so I am working on it in the driveway.

Can you guys confirm that you can get oil in the generator area by laying the bike on its side or should i be looking for a leak? There was about a 1 1/2 quarts in there when I took off the housing around the generator to drain the oil. Previous owner laid the bike down a lot while riding.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #23 on:** January 12, 2015, 04:22:32 PM »

Not sure if you can see but the photo is a spark plug that was in bike for 5 minutes running. Appears way to rich after putting carb back close to stock (I put the clip 1 up on the side of lean for the needle) bike will not start at all. I checked float level before reassembly and seems fine maybe a little on the lean side.

What should I do next was thinking to order a rebuild kit for the carb since I can not lean it out any more. I believe air is getting in and tried to start it without air filter just encase and still could not get it to start. Hoping maybe one of my jets was drilled out or something

I can see the plug spark but not sure how reliable they are firing while kicking.

DustyRags · « **Reply #24 on:** January 16, 2015, 04:48:55 PM »

What's the idle screw doing?

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #25 on:** January 16, 2015, 06:15:04 PM »

Idle screw was out 2 1/2 turns. i just got the carb rebuilt kit today so now it is back to stock.

This is what was in it:

main jet: can't read
Slow set: 38
Needle: was set to leanest setting

Now it is back to factory:
MJ: 120
LJ: 45
Needle: set back to factory
Idle screw: Set at 1 1/4 turns out (manual suggested)

I tried to start it with no luck today. I have ordered a new coil, condenser and points that should be here Monday or Tuesday so trying not to kick it too much until I get them installed. Spark seems to randomly fire so thinking maybe the condenser or coil resistance is off.

Only other issue I could see is that the stator (i think that is the right name for the generator). There was a large amount of oil in the compartment with it so hoping it did not get ruined. The other problem could be the ignition switch or kill switch which I believe if I unhook them it should remove them from the system, correct?

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2015, 06:59:43 PM »

Research led me too the conclusion that the stator should have oil in it so I just need a gasket and seal it up better but I will worry about that after it is running.

DustyRags · « **Reply #27 on:** January 17, 2015, 12:42:57 AM »

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I always get alarmed when I see people throwing money at problems. If you're getting intermittent spark, then you'll want to do some testing to see exactly what's causing problems. First, it saves you money, and second, it's easy enough to make mistakes (and I mean tiny mistakes, like grounding or not grounding something), and now you've got an issue that you didn't have before you replaced a module you didn't know for a fact was bad.

You got the carb back to stock- awesome. That should give you proper fuel and air. You need fuel, air, compression and spark. Sounds like you definitely have a spark issue, so check into that. Have you checked compression on it? I'd do that, just for gits and shiggles, so you can safely rule that out. It doesn't sound like it's an issue, but if you happen to have a tester lying around, I would.

Then start testing your electrical components.

becken · « **Reply #28 on:** January 17, 2015, 06:06:17 AM »

The ignition system is basically a point magneto and is sensitive to the condition of the points. The contact surfaces need to be clean and bright to make a good contact. Also make sure the spark advance is working properly, an item very much overlooked on these bikes.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #29 on:** January 17, 2015, 08:38:18 AM »

Quote from: DustyRags on January 17, 2015, 12:42:57 AM

You got the carb back to stock- awesome. That should give you proper fuel and air. You need fuel, air, compression and spark. Sounds like you definitely have a spark issue, so check into that. Have you checked compression on it? I'd do that, just for gits and shiggles, so you can safely rule that out. It doesn't sound like it's an issue, but if you happen to have a tester lying around, I would.

Then start testing your electrical components.

Compression is 110 psi cold and probably a little wet with gas. It did run for about 5 minutes before it fouled the plug so figured that compression is good enough to run.

The coil wire looks pretty rough.

Quote from: becken on January 17, 2015, 06:06:17 AM

The ignition system is basically a point magneto and is sensitive to the condition of the points. The contact surfaces need to be clean and bright to make a good contact. Also make sure the spark advance is working properly, an item very much overlooked on these bikes.

Is it correct that I can unplug ignition and kill switch to remove them from the system. I read this on another forum. How can I check the spark advance?

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #30 on:** January 17, 2015, 10:28:33 AM »

Got new coil and put in a new plug fired right up!! Took it for a ride a few miles and other than me getting use to not bogging down the little engine seems fine.

Only issues are the speedometer is not functions at all including the odometer and need to get light functioning. Also still need to get a gasket and some sealer for the stator case.

Here some photos: Oh and not sure I stated before turned out to be a '74 not '76

DustyRags · « **Reply #31 on:** January 17, 2015, 12:02:31 PM »

Oh, sweet! That's what my friend calls an "engineer's solution" (as opposed to a "scientist's solution"). In other words, you may not have pinpointed the exact problem, but you fixed it so who cares!

Nicely done.

DustyRags · « **Reply #32 on:** January 17, 2015, 12:04:05 PM »

Oh, and info on the coil? I've got an XL350 waiting in the wings with a bad coil. Any info on that would be grand!

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #33 on:** January 17, 2015, 06:12:37 PM »

Quote from: DustyRags on January 17, 2015, 12:04:05 PM

Oh, and info on the coil? I've got an XL350 waiting in the wings with a bad coil. Any info on that would be grand!

Just got it off ebay, seems to be plenty available in the $20 to $40 range. Kind of sucks that the condenser is attached to the coil. I had to drill it off the old coil and have it zip tied for the time being. I will probably put the new condenser on when it comes since I should be able to get a bolt to attach it to the coil. Might be worth just ordering one that already has the condenser hooked to it.

My old coil wire and cap was pretty sad looking and shocked me a few times so even if the coil was not the solution I would have changed it anyways.

Now I just have to get use to one cylinder.

DustyRags · « **Reply #34 on:** January 19, 2015, 05:46:56 PM »

Cool, thanks. I assume it's used Honda stock?

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #35 on:** January 19, 2015, 07:26:56 PM »

Quote from: DustyRags on January 19, 2015, 05:46:56 PM

Cool, thanks. I assume it's used Honda stock?

Went with this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emgo-Universal-Motorcycle-ATV-Ignition-Coil-for-6V-and-12V-Points-or-CDI-/291297572486?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43d2b03686&vxp=mtr

Not sure how it can be both 6v and 12v but seems to be working fine with a bright spark.

After deconstructing my speedo today and teaching myself how it works, I got it functioning. I am sure the speed will be completely off but works good enough to pass inspection and I got the odometer/trip working again.

Now I just have to figure why all the lights running off the battery aren't working. It is looking like a mess since all the ground wires coming out of the turn signals have been cut. So I think I will start by grounding them all and see where that gets me. All the other wires were replaced at some point.

DustyRags · « **Reply #36 on:** January 19, 2015, 09:57:42 PM »

Ace! Thanks, compadre, that's just the ticket!

Tugboat · « **Reply #37 on:** January 20, 2015, 07:35:30 AM »

Well done! No go ride.

cb550fnewb · « **Reply #38 on:** January 23, 2015, 11:03:39 AM »

So took it for a 30 mile ride a little cold driving on the pavement (40 degrees here) but once I got to dirt road was pretty pleasant. I have encountered a new issue:

If I turn the head light on the bike starts getting random spark and backfires nonstop? It is when ever I encounter any type of incline and results in little power.

The battery is completely dead and will not hold any charge. The new battery will be here next week so hoping it will fix my tail/brake/turn signals. Not sure if it will help with the headlight since I think the battery and headlamp/ignition are separate systems.

Anyone running without out a battery but kept their headlight or have any ideas of cause?

News:

Author Topic: getting younger sibbling to cb550k - a xl250 (Read 4980 times)