Topic: 72 CB500 cafe project Colorado

[Kiwi500]

Hello SOHC people.
I have used this site many times for information and help with bike issues and found all the feedback and conversations extremely useful and accurate to similar issues that I have come across. After using the site for many months I thought it was time to join and hopefully add to the conversations and maybe pass on ideas and information that I may have. I recently purchased a 72 CB500 from the classic Craig’s List ad that I am sure we have all seen, “great bike, good engine (not running) just needs a battery, would make a great café project”. I have been on the lookout for a project bike for some time and finally bit the bullet and picked this one up. Got the price lowered a little and after looking closely at the bike it seemed all there with no major red flags. I spent the first couple of days going over the bike and found to normal things, dirty carbs, bad battery, bad fuel and what looked like the original tires. After cleaning and the carbs, flushing the tank and replacing the tires it was back on the road for the first time in 5 years. After riding it other issues became apparent, bad headset bearing, swing arm with excessive slop, more fuel supply issues but still had fun using it over the last couple of weeks of a Colorado summer. Now that winter is here the bike is in the workshop and the project is underway. I wanted to add it to the project page so others can follow along, get ideas, ask questions, offer help and see what comes out the other end. At this stage the bike is totally apart. The frame and swing arm are almost ready for powder coating, the engine is at the first stages of a tear down and new parts are arriving each week (as money allows). The idea is not to do a full rebuild as this is my first project and I can’t afford to have costs go through the roof. I think the idea of a café racer is to get a great looking, bad ass bike on a budget. But saying this I still like shinny, fun things so can’t help myself sometimes when it comes to great looking, aftermarket parts. Anyway, I have attached some pics of the bike just after I purchased it, then after adding some drag bars, then of the tear down and beginning of the project. Hope to hear back from others in a similar situation or people who have been here before. Thanks for reading and I hope to update as the project progresses.

[timbo750]

Looks like you have a great bike to start with

[calj737]

Does seem to be in pretty good shape. While you have the motor out and frame torn down, also remove and replace the wheel bearings if you haven't yet done so. Bearings and bushings in the suspension and wheels and steering are quite critical to safety and handling. But they are too frequently neglected.

The parts are cheap, the labor is a pain. That's where "budget builds" can reap huge savings by doing the piss and grunt work yourself. Pro results from an hour or two in garage. Take your time and use the proper tools to remove the wheel bearings and retainers as it makes all the difference.

Also, after powder coating your frame, remove the powdercoat from the right rear, upper motor mount bung. This needs to be bare metal for proper frame/engine ground. The mount itself should also be bare metal where it touches the frame and motor. Apply a bit of dielectric grease to the bare metal to retard corrosion.

If you go after removing any screws in the side covers fo your motor, realize they are not Phillips, they are JIS screws. They differ enough that a standard screwdriver will tear them out. You can get JIS bits or tear them out/drill them out/impact hammer them out and replace with new Allen type fasteners. Use anti-sieze when installing new screws to repent corrosion.

And lastly, now is a great time to inspect your front and rear sprocket and chain. Replace all 3 together if any 1 is worn.

[Blackfin5]

+ 1 what Cal said.  And silicon bronze swingarm bushings in lieu of stock.

[FunJimmy]

Congrats on you bike purchase.
Looks like a good one.

[Kiwi500]

Does seem to be in pretty good shape. While you have the motor out and frame torn down, also remove and replace the wheel bearings if you haven't yet done so. Bearings and bushings in the suspension and wheels and steering are quite critical to safety and handling. But they are too frequently neglected.

The parts are cheap, the labor is a pain. That's where "budget builds" can reap huge savings by doing the piss and grunt work yourself. Pro results from an hour or two in garage. Take your time and use the proper tools to remove the wheel bearings and retainers as it makes all the difference.

Also, after powder coating your frame, remove the powdercoat from the right rear, upper motor mount bung. This needs to be bare metal for proper frame/engine ground. The mount itself should also be bare metal where it touches the frame and motor. Apply a bit of dielectric grease to the bare metal to retard corrosion.

If you go after removing any screws in the side covers fo your motor, realize they are not Phillips, they are JIS screws. They differ enough that a standard screwdriver will tear them out. You can get JIS bits or tear them out/drill them out/impact hammer them out and replace with new Allen type fasteners. Use anti-sieze when installing new screws to repent corrosion.

And lastly, now is a great time to inspect your front and rear sprocket and chain. Replace all 3 together if any 1 is worn.

I hear ya when you say headset and swing arm are critical to handling, this is how I found these problems. When cornering it felt like the bike wanted to step out all the time and in a straight line the bars would lock in center. I check tire air pressure, retaining bolt etc. but found that the swing arm pivot was sloppy and headset bearing badly worn. Already have a new head set bearing kit. Now looking for new swing arm bushes. Wheel bearings are new and show up on an old workshop receipt.

Great info. on the grounding of the motor. I would have missed that.

I have also already purchased a Allan head bolt set for the side covers. I also have a couple of st/st Allan bolts laying around the shop. I think this looks good and is more serviceable than Phillips head screws.

New chain and sprockets here already.

I didn't want to get too deep into an engine rebuild but it looks like the primary drive chain needs replacing, way too sloppy. I'm going to order a gasket set so I can tear-down the engine. Any other common issues here?

[Kiwi500]

Congrats on you bike purchase.
Looks like a good one.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to getting it back on the road.

[Kiwi500]

Looks like you have a great bike to start with

It is. I was looking for about 12 months when I found this one. Like I said, it wasn't running but had no major red flags. It took about 2 days to get it back on the road.

[calj737]

Sounds like you're well oriented already. 500 motor is notorious for a weak transmission. If you're splitting cases, inspect the gears, forks and dogs and cats while there.

You said primary chain, did you mean cam chain? The cam chain is adjustable, the primary is not. The tensioner for the cam chain is very hard to come by as a replacement, so best to replace a worn cam chain prior to damage occurring.

Lastly, the clutch push rod (traverse motor left to right) is prone to breaking. Inspect it and don't lose the small steel ball bearing under the side cover when removing it (sprocket side cover).

[Kiwi500]

+ 1 what Cal said.  And silicon bronze swingarm bushings in lieu of stock.

Thanks. This is what I'm looking at doing now. Also, stock items are expensive, $110 for shaft and bearings. Found bronze bushes and hardened steel shaft for $30 on McMaster Carr. I have also been using 4into1.com for parts. They seem good. Any other sites you would recommend?

[calj737]

You can obtain a complete set of socket head cap screws, bagged, labeled and polished form here: www.alloyboltz.com

Tons of great sites for parts. Depends if you want stock, or upgraded? Honda dealer still has available some bearings, carb rebuild kits, brass etc. if your equilibrium your carbs, use only stock Keihin brass. Aftermarket kits are bad joo-joo.

www.davidsilverspares.com is a UK based supplier with a U.S. site too. Great source for stock replacements. Westernhillshonda.com has greats parts fiche. And so on...

[Kiwi500]

Sounds like you're well oriented already. 500 motor is notorious for a weak transmission. If you're splitting cases, inspect the gears, forks and dogs and cats while there.

You said primary chain, did you mean cam chain? The cam chain is adjustable, the primary is not. The tensioner for the cam chain is very hard to come by as a replacement, so best to replace a worn cam chain prior to damage occurring.

Lastly, the clutch push rod (traverse motor left to right) is prone to breaking. Inspect it and don't lose the small steel ball bearing under the side cover when removing it (sprocket side cover).

Primary chain, from crank shaft to gearbox. Way too sloppy. It's wearing on the casing. I have read in other posts that this can get so bad that it can cut through the oil galley leading from the pick up strainer to the pump causing loss of oil pressure. I'm not there yet but can see how this would happen.

[Kiwi500]

You can obtain a complete set of socket head cap screws, bagged, labeled and polished form here: www.alloyboltz.com

Tons of great sites for parts. Depends if you want stock, or upgraded? Honda dealer still has available some bearings, carb rebuild kits, brass etc. if your equilibrium your carbs, use only stock Keihin brass. Aftermarket kits are bad joo-joo.

www.davidsilverspares.com is a UK based supplier with a U.S. site too. Great source for stock replacements. Westernhillshonda.com has greats parts fiche. And so on...

Thanks.

[Restoration Fan]

I have also been using 4into1.com for parts. They seem good. Any other sites you would recommend?

Despite the name, vintagecb750.com also has parts for the 500's and 550's.  I've ordered quite a few things from them.

Someone else (I think it was Stev-o) turned me onto the benefits of an Amazon Prime membership and I have used the living heck out of it since we started our 750 rebuild.  Honestly, now the very first place I go to look is Amazon, since I can get free 2-day shipping and the prices are always very competitive.

Some other places:
http://www.cyclexchange.net/
http://www.davidsilverspares.com//
http://www.dimecitycycles.com
http://www.vintagehondapaint.com (for Honda paint matches)
http://motogpwerks.com/

I'm sure there are more but those just popped into my head.

[Kiwi500]

I have also been using 4into1.com for parts. They seem good. Any other sites you would recommend?

Despite the name, vintagecb750.com also has parts for the 500's and 550's.  I've ordered quite a few things from them.

Someone else (I think it was Stev-o) turned me onto the benefits of an Amazon Prime membership and I have used the living heck out of it since we started our 750 rebuild.  Honestly, now the very first place I go to look is Amazon, since I can get free 2-day shipping and the prices are always very competitive.

Some other places:
http://www.cyclexchange.net/
http://www.davidsilverspares.com//
http://www.dimecitycycles.com
http://www.vintagehondapaint.com (for Honda paint matches)
http://motogpwerks.com/

I'm sure there are more but those just popped into my head.

Great idea. My wife has Amazon Prime so can use that account, maybe even send her the bill.

[Kiwi500]

The bike is now moving out of the tear-down stage and into the custom build part of the project. But as with all good projects you always find new faults as you move along. I was trying to avoid a full engine tear-down but it looks like it's now on the cards. After removing the oil pan you can see that the primary drive chain is so slack that it has been rubbing on the casing. I have followed a couple of other posts that have indicated the same issue. Because it runs no tensioning system I guess the only way to resolve this is to replace the chain. Not a 5 minute job but should keep me interested over the next couple of weeks. Any one have ideas on suppliers and other areas to look at now I'm going to split the case?

The picture shows the bike mated with its new seat. Got this off e-bay out of Hong Kong. Great product and exactly what I was looking for. Reused the chrome passenger bar (with some mods) and will also radically chop the original rear fender.

Almost finished cutting and grinding on the frame, should be ready for powder coating soon.

[calj737]

David Silver Spares website lists them frequently. If you locate the original Honda part number, use it in a Google search and you'll find plenty of options for buying one.

[riverfever]

Where are you at Kiwi?

[Kiwi500]

Where are you at Kiwi?

Denver, Colorado.

[Kiwi500]

David Silver Spares website lists them frequently. If you locate the original Honda part number, use it in a Google search and you'll find plenty of options for buying one.

Thanks.
Just checked out David Silver's, great site. I have been shopping for parts for some time now and have visited many sites. It looks like David Silvers has some very competitive pricing. Also found parts here that have been hard to track down. I think I maybe sending some of my hard earned money their way. Thanks again for the tip.

[calj737]

They have a US and a UK site. You'll save on shipping by purchasing thru the US site. Also, there are plenty of Honda dealers nationally that have inventory of vintage parts, or original parts still available to be ordered. Western Hills Honda comes to mind, as does Arkport Suzuki/Honda. Arkport I know has a "Vintage Parts Dept" so when you call, ask to be transferred.

[jvandyke]

Noob here.
I'm also working on a '72 500, our taillights are different.  Someone already de-badged your tank?  I just did mine, cutting out the mounting bars and filling the indents.  I need to investigate my cam chain also, sounds really sloppy.  Was thinking brat style but haven't cut much yet.  Work has really stalled out without heated work space it just isn't getting as far as I hoped.  Mine bike has been in the family since '73, I got it a few years ago with 6500 miles on it.  Now has 14,000.  Considered a restoration vs. a chop but it wasn't well cared for for the last few years before I got it and corroded and rusted badly so here we are.  Anyway, watching your thread to glean 500 info as I slowly move forward.

[Kiwi500]

Noob here.
I'm also working on a '72 500, our taillights are different.  Someone already de-badged your tank?  I just did mine, cutting out the mounting bars and filling the indents.  I need to investigate my cam chain also, sounds really sloppy.  Was thinking brat style but haven't cut much yet.  Work has really stalled out without heated work space it just isn't getting as far as I hoped.  Mine bike has been in the family since '73, I got it a few years ago with 6500 miles on it.  Now has 14,000.  Considered a restoration vs. a chop but it wasn't well cared for for the last few years before I got it and corroded and rusted badly so here we are.  Anyway, watching your thread to glean 500 info as I slowly move forward.

Hey Noob.
That's one bad-ass exhaust you have there, street rod style.
My tank is in bad shape, full of body filler and someone has done a bad job of lining the inside with varnish (you can see the spill marks on the outside). New tanks are hard to find so I will push on with this one. It will be resprayed so will clean it up then.
I am also in the middle of a kitchen remodel so bike time is short supply. Hope to keep moving forward slowly. I'm finding out a lot of good information as I move along so would be happy to share if you have any questions.
That's incredible news to hear that your bike has been in the family since 73

[jvandyke]

exhaust, yes, it sounds good but it is obnoxiously loud.   I thought about grafting some cheap stock harley pipes onto the collection point of the headers, not sure how doable that is (not with my welding skills no doubt), or stuffing some other baffles in there, just need to tame it a bit.
My tank was heavily weathered with several small dents, I used POR15 tank sealer on the inside, highly recommended.  resprayed the color portion of the tank (leaving the pinstripe and black portion alone) turned out pretty decent but three more "incidents" left their mark so it had to be dealt with, now sitting in bare metal with the badge mounts and dents worked over, I think I'm done with body work but can't paint until it warms up
also did the side covers, battery side had split in two twice, (that's three parts!) now repaired, fiberglass reinforced on the back side, badge holes filled, waiting primer, not sure on color, was thinking satin black but I've seen some pretty nice metallic finishes I like, nickel and pewter and such,
still thinking homemade seat (pan is done, in aluminum) clip ons, single mini gauge, cut rear frame, mount a front fender on the rear as a hugger, mount taillight and license plate holder to that, that's the "plan" but weather and pending house move may really hurt progress
(good news is if the house thing goes through I'll have a huge barn AND a motorcycle bedroom, yes that's right a room in the walkout floor that used to be a fireproofed room with exterior doors, since finished off but still has a slider to the outside and is ready for me to roll my bike into next winter where I can work on it all winter in heated comfort.  Bliss

oh, thinking whitewalls too.........

[Kiwi500]

That's funny, our projects sound very similar. All ready purchased two mini gauges, cut rear frame, new clip-ons, stain black powder coated frame, matt black tank and side covers, gold chain and rear sprocket, painted engine (color still ??), chopped rear fender with new smaller tail light and plate mount, chopped front fender, new café seat etc. This will be interesting to follow. I want a 4 into 1 with a café cone muffler but the prices are a little high. Might splash out as the last item to finish the project. Good luck with the house.