Topic: Are custom bike builders destroying historical artifacts?

[Stev-o]

Bear in mind, Amateurs built the Ark, Experts built the Titanic-

Oi, there was nothing wrong with Titanic. It sank because of an incompetent captain.   
Oh, they found Titanic. Any sign of the Ark?   

Yes, the ark is in Hong Kong.

http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Noah%27s_Ark_and_Tshing_Ma_Bridge.JPG

[BPellerine]

one of my old friends used to say if you have a frame you have a bike,used to start some restos with only a frame or an engine,so those are the things maybe we should not fubar if modding?it took me awhile to even reason with myself to put a frame kit in but that is just my exp.maybe the reason not so many restos is cost,10.000 to build a 4000 bike,excluding the sandcasts of course.bill

[goldarrow]

Got a feeling another one getting cut up http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144509

[Stev-o]

Got a feeling another one getting cut up http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144509

HA!

[FunJimmy]

      OK, I understand most see this as an exaggerated, cynical outlook and you are probably right.  But seriously, we have all seen it here, right?  I can think of several examples where these people somehow did actually manage to have a functional motorcycle and actually ride the hideous thing...and I think that is great and amazing.  But I don't think it is the norm.  How much more successful in this hobby would these people be if they got the $900 old neglected bike running and riding safe and dependably with some tune up, new chain, tires, cables and went and did the MSF course, ride for a year or two, meet some more experienced people in REAL LIFE, and just took some time to learn what they really like and dis-like about motorcycling and motorcycles...

Maybe some people are more insightful than others. It only took me two rides on my street worthy CB550F Super Sport to realize that the brakes and suspension sucked. I'd even say they where dangerious. Could they be improved with fresh pads and oil? Sure, but they'd still suck so something had to be done.

Further to your point about the first time motorcycle owner and self proclaimed handyman/custom builder hacking a $900 basket case. Where did you expect them to cut their teeth in the motorcycle arena? Sadly it happens to be a bike you like, but to many, it's a 40 year old Japanese motorcycle left for dead and if unfinished, it's still dead.

[Retro Rocket]

      OK, I understand most see this as an exaggerated, cynical outlook and you are probably right.  But seriously, we have all seen it here, right?  I can think of several examples where these people somehow did actually manage to have a functional motorcycle and actually ride the hideous thing...and I think that is great and amazing.  But I don't think it is the norm.  How much more successful in this hobby would these people be if they got the $900 old neglected bike running and riding safe and dependably with some tune up, new chain, tires, cables and went and did the MSF course, ride for a year or two, meet some more experienced people in REAL LIFE, and just took some time to learn what they really like and dis-like about motorcycling and motorcycles...

Maybe some people are more insightful than others. It only took me two rides on my street worthy CB550F Super Sport to realize that the brakes and suspension sucked. I'd even say they where dangerious. Could they be improved with fresh pads and oil? Sure, but they'd still suck so something had to be done.

Further to your point about the first time motorcycle owner and self proclaimed handyman/custom builder hacking a $900 basket case. Where did you expect them to cut their teeth in the motorcycle arena? Sadly it happens to be a bike you like, but to many, it's a 40 year old Japanese motorcycle left for dead and if unfinished, it's still dead.

Jim, I had plenty of basket cases in the early 80's, I just built them back up as they were, never once hacked one to death...

[seanbarney41]

      OK, I understand most see this as an exaggerated, cynical outlook and you are probably right.  But seriously, we have all seen it here, right?  I can think of several examples where these people somehow did actually manage to have a functional motorcycle and actually ride the hideous thing...and I think that is great and amazing.  But I don't think it is the norm.  How much more successful in this hobby would these people be if they got the $900 old neglected bike running and riding safe and dependably with some tune up, new chain, tires, cables and went and did the MSF course, ride for a year or two, meet some more experienced people in REAL LIFE, and just took some time to learn what they really like and dis-like about motorcycling and motorcycles...

Maybe some people are more insightful than others. It only took me two rides on my street worthy CB550F Super Sport to realize that the brakes and suspension sucked. I'd even say they where dangerious. Could they be improved with fresh pads and oil? Sure, but they'd still suck so something had to be done.

Further to your point about the first time motorcycle owner and self proclaimed handyman/custom builder hacking a $900 basket case. Where did you expect them to cut their teeth in the motorcycle arena? Sadly it happens to be a bike you like, but to many, it's a 40 year old Japanese motorcycle left for dead and if unfinished, it's still dead.

Jimmy, did you even read my whole post before you responded?   Where do I expect them to cut their teeth in the motorcycle arena?   MSF course, ride for a year or two, meet some more experienced people in REAL LIFE, and just took some time to learn what they really like and dis-like about motorcycling and motorcycles...
      And really, it seems like you learned to ride on modern motorcycles if you found a properly operating cb550 to be unsafe, which is fine...I strongly encourage new motorcyclists to start on the best, newest, safest, most dependable motorcycle they can afford.  I am guessing you rode for several years before ever started on the Cafe Interceptor.  That is why it came out so well...because you knew what was a real improvement.

[pn2501]

I'm one of those guys who've leant to ride (on the road) on a modern bike with abs, i've ridden on older bikes before and the braking doesn't inspire confidence in me, that's why i'm going the resto-mod route with my 750. I like the styling of some of the cafe mods but if the bike isn't a fully functioning safe bike it isn't going to be much fun to ride and if it isn't fun to ride than its a not a rational decision for me.

[Killer Canary]

I learned to ride on a CT70 and then a CR125. By the time I was 15 I had a CB550F. I thought that it's brakes and handling were wonderful.

[Retro Rocket]

I'm one of those guys who've leant to ride (on the road) on a modern bike with abs, i've ridden on older bikes before and the braking doesn't inspire confidence in me, that's why i'm going the resto-mod route with my 750. I like the styling of some of the cafe mods but if the bike isn't a fully functioning safe bike it isn't going to be much fun to ride and if it isn't fun to ride than its a not a rational decision for me.

A properly set up stock Honda is both functional and safe, everything can be ridden beyond its limits, knowing those limits is whats important.

[faux fiddy]

  I have cut 2  500/550 frames so far, one for snowbike,meld a snowmobile and 550 together, which was kind of a success but it doesn't change the fact that winter still sucks.   Oh yeah and +1 seanbarney.

Now that it's January it needs a BOTM nomination again.

[pn2501]

I'm one of those guys who've leant to ride (on the road) on a modern bike with abs, i've ridden on older bikes before and the braking doesn't inspire confidence in me, that's why i'm going the resto-mod route with my 750. I like the styling of some of the cafe mods but if the bike isn't a fully functioning safe bike it isn't going to be much fun to ride and if it isn't fun to ride than its a not a rational decision for me.

A properly set up stock Honda is both functional and safe, everything can be ridden beyond its limits, knowing those limits is whats important.

As i typed that response i was waiting for some one to ping me on it haha,

It relates more to my confidence more than anything really.

And in my case the bike is missing so many parts why not upgrade them if you can, they have to be replaced anyhow.

[Retro Rocket]

I'm one of those guys who've leant to ride (on the road) on a modern bike with abs, i've ridden on older bikes before and the braking doesn't inspire confidence in me, that's why i'm going the resto-mod route with my 750. I like the styling of some of the cafe mods but if the bike isn't a fully functioning safe bike it isn't going to be much fun to ride and if it isn't fun to ride than its a not a rational decision for me.

A properly set up stock Honda is both functional and safe, everything can be ridden beyond its limits, knowing those limits is whats important.

As i typed that response i was waiting for some one to ping me on it haha,

It relates more to my confidence more than anything really.

And in my case the bike is missing so many parts why not upgrade them if you can, they have to be replaced anyhow.

Don't get me wrong, I love the upgrades as well, the 3 and 3/4 bikes I have all came in boxes, the drag bike was complete but as a drag bike, not  a road bike, all 3 are getting modern mods, the 4th will be built out of what ever is left, maybe with a little twist. I'm using alloy swingarms, 43mm right side up forks on all 3, the whole idea, for the one i end up keeping {if i ever live long enough  }is to make the bike Honda would make now if it was to make a SOHC 750...., If my bikes were complete when I bought them they may have stayed stock, but mine are all parts bin specials and will be built appropriately....

[BPellerine]

hope we get to see it retro!bill

[Retro Rocket]

hope we get to see it retro!bill

Its getting closer to the first one Bill,  money's tight at the moment, I have almost all the necessary bits  for the mods, but everything involves  custom work, triple clamps, shortening the alloy swing arm and making the hub fit the front end, I won't have it long as i'm going to sell it to fund the other 2 bikes, one of which will be sold as well, Its the only way i'll get the bike I want, the way I want it....

[pn2501]

I'm one of those guys who've leant to ride (on the road) on a modern bike with abs, i've ridden on older bikes before and the braking doesn't inspire confidence in me, that's why i'm going the resto-mod route with my 750. I like the styling of some of the cafe mods but if the bike isn't a fully functioning safe bike it isn't going to be much fun to ride and if it isn't fun to ride than its a not a rational decision for me.

A properly set up stock Honda is both functional and safe, everything can be ridden beyond its limits, knowing those limits is whats important.

As i typed that response i was waiting for some one to ping me on it haha,

It relates more to my confidence more than anything really.

And in my case the bike is missing so many parts why not upgrade them if you can, they have to be replaced anyhow.

Don't get me wrong, I love the upgrades as well, the 3 and 3/4 bikes I have all came in boxes, the drag bike was complete but as a drag bike, not  a road bike, all 3 are getting modern mods, the 4th will be built out of what ever is left, maybe with a little twist. I'm using alloy swingarms, 43mm right side up forks on all 3, the whole idea, for the one i end up keeping {if i ever live long enough  }is to make the bike Honda would make now if it was to make a SOHC 750...., If my bikes were complete when I bought them they may have stayed stock, but mine are all parts bin specials and will be built appropriately....

Yep I've been reading a heap of old posts trying to get the lay of the land around here, and found what your doing kinda aligns to what i'm doing or would like to do especially on performance mods (my budget is well and truly wiped out now cheers lol), i don't want to stray too far from the lines and shapes of the original design (they're a beautiful bike from factory in my eyes) many of the monstrosities that occur are due to making the bike look too unrecognisable, or making it something it isn't. 

I'd get in quick with the two bikes your planning on selling, its a sellers market right now, but the cultural zeitgeist is starting to moving away from these bikes, and the marketing guru's at HD are infiltrating like they always do.

[Don R]

 I'm an old fart and want the bike I had and should have kept back in the day. Except then I was replacing the stock parts with aftermarket. Today I'm trying to make mine original again because I can appreciate the beauty of the design. I ended up with a K0 hot rod with lesters and an yoshi lookng header and a nice mostly original sandcast that's about to get it's 4 into 4 back.
 This week I bought a gold wing, there's a guy near here that dismantles nice bikes and sells on ebay. I told him we have the opposite goal. He's taking nice ones apart and I'm trying to fix bikes other people gave up on. Anyway I called him looking for a starter for mine. In the end it's a wash. He's making a living of selling parts to guys like me who are putting them back together.

 What's my point? I don't know. I can still buy a goldwing cheap with perfect chrome and all the parts on board so it can't be too bad yet.

[pn2501]

Next big trend replacement rear sections and passenger foot peg mounts and tabs for when the cafe craze dies, outsource it china do decent run = profit in about 5 - 10 years

[Retro Rocket]

I'm one of those guys who've leant to ride (on the road) on a modern bike with abs, i've ridden on older bikes before and the braking doesn't inspire confidence in me, that's why i'm going the resto-mod route with my 750. I like the styling of some of the cafe mods but if the bike isn't a fully functioning safe bike it isn't going to be much fun to ride and if it isn't fun to ride than its a not a rational decision for me.

A properly set up stock Honda is both functional and safe, everything can be ridden beyond its limits, knowing those limits is whats important.

As i typed that response i was waiting for some one to ping me on it haha,

It relates more to my confidence more than anything really.

And in my case the bike is missing so many parts why not upgrade them if you can, they have to be replaced anyhow.

Don't get me wrong, I love the upgrades as well, the 3 and 3/4 bikes I have all came in boxes, the drag bike was complete but as a drag bike, not  a road bike, all 3 are getting modern mods, the 4th will be built out of what ever is left, maybe with a little twist. I'm using alloy swingarms, 43mm right side up forks on all 3, the whole idea, for the one i end up keeping {if i ever live long enough  }is to make the bike Honda would make now if it was to make a SOHC 750...., If my bikes were complete when I bought them they may have stayed stock, but mine are all parts bin specials and will be built appropriately....

Yep I've been reading a heap of old posts trying to get the lay of the land around here, and found what your doing kinda aligns to what i'm doing or would like to do especially on performance mods (my budget is well and truly wiped out now cheers lol), i don't want to stray too far from the lines and shapes of the original design (they're a beautiful bike from factory in my eyes) many of the monstrosities that occur are due to making the bike look too unrecognisable, or making it something it isn't. 

I'd get in quick with the two bikes your planning on selling, its a sellers market right now, but the cultural zeitgeist is starting to moving away from these bikes, and the marketing guru's at HD are infiltrating like they always do.

The 750's are getting real expensive here in Australia so i won't have any problems selling them, especially since they will be built right... I've spent a hell of a lot of time getting this all right...

[pn2501]

Yeah we are a little behind down here, whats your timeline and what are you expecting to sell them for out of curiosity?

you see stock ok condition ones going for about 10-11k generally.

i see a lot of imports for sale. 

i got my one in parts for $500, missing swing arm carbs and forks, seen a few rough ones out there for around 6k. 

[Old Moe Toe]

Well custom builders MIGHT be destroying historical artifacts and I don't care. Gotta KO in really nice nick that I wouldn't dream of customising. Also got a bits and pieces K2 K7 mongrell that is getting the chopped up treatment now. And enjoying every bit of it.
What about all the people who have written off their SOHC fours and paid the ultimate price(death)? Must be thousands of em. Specially the early sandcast ones that tended to throw chains. You could accuse them of the same thing.
Bit like asking if Toyota corolla customisers are destroying historical artifacts fyarskme.

[Retro Rocket]

Yeah we are a little behind down here, whats your timeline and what are you expecting to sell them for out of curiosity?

you see stock ok condition ones going for about 10-11k generally.

i see a lot of imports for sale. 

i got my one in parts for $500, missing swing arm carbs and forks, seen a few rough ones out there for around 6k.

I've been collecting parts for about 16 years, I have 4 frames and 3 1/2 engines, 3 engine kits, 900, 970 and a fuel injected billet block 1000 which i'm keeping, its the money pit, but I don't really care, I also don't really care how long it takes either, I have a clear idea of what I want to do with it, it seems to bother others more than me as to how long its taking but i'm doing this the way I want to. The first one is the 900cc K2, I'm about to start on it, I'll be wanting around 10 grand for it, almost everything on it is new or better than new, CB1000f forks, custom triple clamps, GSX1100 swingarm modded to suit, braced frame, back cut gearbox, heavy duty primary and cam chains, bigger cam, 29mm smoothbores, stainless Yoshi replica pipe, big port head with bigger valves and all the goodies, bigger wheels DID 3.5 rear and 2.5 front, new tank and covers freshly painted in stock type colors and decals , new guards etc etc. the 2nd one is the 970cc, its an F model, pretty much the same deal for it except I want  more of a 70's/80's style superbike in looks for that one, and finally the brute, 1000cc fuel injected  billet block with the best of everything, its the end game, i'll never sell it, when i'm to old to ride i'll give it to my son....  I still have to work out how i'm going to run stock gauges on the 900, the bigger forks and stock hub configuration still need some serious thinking to make them work, I want to run the stock speedo, I have a set of brand new gauges i bought over 20 years ago and they are going on it one way or another. Modifying bikes is great but it presents plenty of headaches, not to mention I get a lot of the fabricated parts made in the USA and some in the UK, because it's so much cheaper, it would be awesome if i could get it all done here but unfortunately its far to expensive...

[FunJimmy]

I've been collecting parts for about 16 years, I have 4 frames and 3 1/2 engines, 3 engine kits, 900, 970 and a fuel injected billet block 1000 which i'm keeping, its the money pit, but I don't really care, I also don't really care how long it takes either, I have a clear idea of what I want to do with it, it seems to bother others more than me as to how long its taking but i'm doing this the way I want to. The first one is the 900cc K2, I'm about to start on it, I'll be wanting around 10 grand for it, almost everything on it is new or better than new, CB1000f forks, custom triple clamps, GSX1100 swingarm modded to suit, braced frame, back cut gearbox, heavy duty primary and cam chains, bigger cam, 29mm smoothbores, stainless Yoshi replica pipe, big port head with bigger valves and all the goodies, bigger wheels DID 3.5 rear and 2.5 front, new tank and covers freshly painted in stock type colors and decals , new guards etc etc. the 2nd one is the 970cc, its an F model, pretty much the same deal for it except I want  more of a 70's/80's style superbike in looks for that one, and finally the brute, 1000cc fuel injected  billet block with the best of everything, its the end game, i'll never sell it, when i'm to old to ride i'll give it to my son....  I still have to work out how i'm going to run stock gauges on the 900, the bigger forks and stock hub configuration still need some serious thinking to make them work, I want to run the stock speedo, I have a set of brand new gauges i bought over 20 years ago and they are going on it one way or another. Modifying bikes is great but it presents plenty of headaches, not to mention I get a lot of the fabricated parts made in the USA and some in the UK, because it's so much cheaper, it would be awesome if i could get it all done here but unfortunately its far to expensive...

For 10K it's hardly worth the time and effort RR. By your estimation, you've invested 16 years collecting parts and planning the right way to build these bikes to sell them off to fund the Big Daddy. Add a couple more years to it and you've lost two decades and a LOT of prime saddle time. At that rate, petro might not even be readily available when the last of the three roll out of the shop. Amp it up and enjoy the fruity of your labour Mate.

[BPellerine]

I kind of lean towards the stuff that was made for the old bikes back in the day ,even if they are a little old school.bill

[pn2501]

I mostly with fj on this,

What's the saying "no point having two dicks, you can only use one."

It's relevant in the sense of how long we actually have to ride, and the opportunities you get, considering other life commitments.

Regarding petrol, it's not going away, everything might be going electric, but that's a 20-30 year thing, the amount of strain it will put on power grid if everyone ran electric cars would cripple it, in the future it'll be available it will just be expensive.

My face when