Author Topic: Powdercoating Hubs on CB400F (Read 2821 times)

cgarbe · « **on:** January 28, 2015, 07:40:49 AM »

I want to powdercoat my hubs however I do not want to remove the rear cushes since they are a pain in the ass to remove and pretty pricey to replace. Has anyone had any experience with powdercoating their hubs with these rubber cushes still installed? Will the rubber melt in the oven?

strynboen · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2015, 10:37:36 AM »

is there problems vith spokes eating the paint.?.or fill the tiny holes for them..so you have to drill them to get the spokes inn..also smash the paint..

can you not press these rubbers aut from brake side...or are they glued or pressed inn..a closed hole

vames · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2015, 11:33:18 AM »

Seems like the heat from the powder coating process would probably not be very nice to any rubber parts left on there. Also, if you plan to leave your wheel bearings in there you could have an issue with grease liquifying and dripping out and messing with the powder.

You'd really need to strip the hubs down if you want to powder coat them.

toolguy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2015, 02:46:52 PM »

The 1st step in powedcoating is to sandblast the parts. . that means strip them
down to the basics. . remove bearings. .
The baking temp of the ovens is 500-600 degrees which will
melt out bearing grease and in all probability destroy the rubber bumpers. . . .
Also aluminum castings often 'gas out' impurities when baking making bubbles
it the powder paint. .

A better solution is to bead blast the hubs with plastic bead or baking soda, hand polish the
outer portions and leave the center 'fins' a is. . You could clear coat paint them like HONDA originally did but
it will eventually peel and crack. . just like the original finish. . r

przjohn · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2015, 03:13:07 PM »

If you are talking PC you are removing the bearings so I think that is a Mr. Obvious. On to the cush drives. Yes, they are a PITA and a few bucks. I would doubt they would stand up well to PC heat and maybe the polishing method from a previous post would be a better bet to save them. Really, they aren't that bad to get out with some patience, but I don't blame you for wanting to stay away from that project.

Kevin · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2015, 04:05:53 PM »

I had a set powder coated and had no issues with the rubber cush drive melting.

I would make sure they don't powder coat where the sprocket goes and same for the opposite side where the brake cover fits over the hub because it is a real PIA to remove it.

Lostboy Steve · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2015, 06:44:44 PM »

You'd be surprised. Powdercoat cures at 400 degrees and a lot of these bushings will survive that. How do I know? Because I've done it and have had it done to my parts without issue.

cgarbe · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2015, 10:13:30 AM »

Thanks for all the feedback! Yes, the bearings and rings and everything have been removed (except for the rubber cush drives).

UPDATE!
I took the hubs to get soda blasted and the front hub came out well. The rear hub looks good except for a ton of tiny black marks on the aluminum. The blaster said it could be oil that soaked into the aluminum...and once it soaks into the aluminum you cant get it out. I will post pictures tonight. I finally decided I was just going to have them blasted and then clear coat them...but now that these black marks are on the rear hubs I'm leaning towards PCing them again.

lostboy & Kevin:
You both had cb400f hubs PC'd and the rubber cush drives didn't melt? Do you guys have any before and after photos?

Thanks everyone!

Kevin · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2015, 01:36:50 PM »

Yes, I had mine PC'd without any issues.

I don't have any before pictures but here is an after that will give you an idea of what the bike looks like with PC'd hubs..

cgarbe · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2015, 05:38:19 PM »

Kevin,

Very nice! Where did you get your rear swing arm?

cgarbe · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2015, 05:45:52 PM »

Okay, so here are the photographs of my hubs that were just soda blasted. The soda blaster said these little black marks might be oil and once that gets into the metal you can't get it out. So this is why I am leaning towards PC'ing them. What do you guys think...satin black powder coat and hope the rubber drive cushes don't melt...or try polishing them and live with the black marks.

cgarbe · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2015, 05:48:38 PM »

More photos:

Kevin · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:01:37 AM »

Cgarbe,
The swingarm is a product of TTR out of South Africa.
Mine is an older version, he has a new version out that is pretty slick.
http://ttr400.com/photo3_10.html

cgarbe · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2015, 08:08:53 AM »

I thought it was a TTR...wasn't sure if you found something else that we can use for our CB400F's.

Thanks!

strynboen · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2015, 08:21:37 AM »

try sand them dovn..first and then polish..think they vill be fine..have seen vorse marks..and still fine polish resulats..

mine polish are not mirror finish..but still nice

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #15 on:** February 03, 2015, 09:23:16 AM »

Those marks are from oil? I don't think so. Looks like typical old aluminum discoloration from corrosion or something. If it's from oil why was the inside of my case spotless?

---
1978 Honda CB550K

cgarbe · « **Reply #16 on:** February 03, 2015, 09:57:19 AM »

I didn't think they were from oil either...that's just what the PC'er said.

strynboen:
How did you polish yours? Also, what grit sandpaper did you use?

strynboen · « **Reply #17 on:** February 03, 2015, 10:06:16 AM »

i just bayed a polish vheel ca 25 cm i diameter. and some hard polish vax blocks.

got a old elektro motor..vith a long shaft(vaterpump)...cut threds in the shaft..and bolted the polish hveel on....made so the engine can be fixed on vork bench..

and then go for it..but be care..it can rip the part aut of your hands..by putting nev voks on it are a bit dangerus..it snap until the vaks are melted a bit

start remove big marks. file/bentch grinder...then use sandpaper..and ending dovn from 100 to some some like..80 can do it..to polish direkt after

cgarbe · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:14:28 PM »

Okay, I think I've decided that I'm gonna take the hubs to be PC'd tomorrow. If the rubber drive cushes melt I'm blaming you Kevin!

Kevin · « **Reply #19 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:45:25 PM »

Sounds fair to me

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Powderman · « **Reply #20 on:** February 04, 2015, 08:09:03 AM »

Okay now for some correct info. I'll try an address some of the false info given here. PC cures at 375-400*F anyone curing at 500-600 doesn't know what they are doing and are over baking the powder which will fail prematurely. While the cush rubbers won't "melt" at 400* they will cure like the powder and become much harder resulting in premature failure of them up the road. I think the advice you got on the spots is also incorrect. There are a lot of professional blasting businesses out there that don't have a clue to what they are doing. It's just sand being blown out of a hose and it removes paint and #$%*, how hard can it be. Well like any business there are right and wrong ways to do it and those who know there business excel. Those who don't get lots of complaints on the work but manage to stay in business if no one else in the area is doing it. My blaster really knows his #$%* and amazes me at times with what he can do without causing damage or knowing what you as a customer is asking for may cause damage. I've seen all kinds of oil spots in aluminum and the blaster always removes everything down to virgin metal. Out gassing is an issue where in the casting process of the part the pores of the metal close up during the cooling cycle and will trap casting debris and gasses in these pores. When the part has powder on it and starts to flow at temp the pores open in the surface and release all this crap into your melting powder causing bubbles and a restroom and redo. To avoid this the part should be put in the oven at 475-500* for an hour (after cleaning and greasing the part), this allows the pores to open and release all the crud. Then after it cools go straight to sand blasting the part as usual and you will have no outgassing issue or oil spots to content with as this temp will also bring the oil to the surface and burn most of it off. There are also outgassing primers that are sprayed on the part when the part is at full cure temp, this allows the powder to melt/flow/and cure in 1 minute not allowing the bubbliest have a chance to form during a slow cure process. Then the top coat is applied as usual.
Glass bead blasting is not an acceptable means of prepping for PC. It actually peens the surface and leaves an unacceptable surface "tooth" (more gums than teeth, lol) for the powder to adhere to.

If done properly the spokes holes should only be about .00150"-.003" smaller and the spokes should have no issue lacing through them.

cgarbe · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2015, 12:41:21 PM »

Good news everybody! Hubs were completed today and the PC'er said the rubber did not melt. I will post photos on Monday when I pick up the parts.

Powderman · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2015, 07:55:46 AM »

Quote from: cgarbe on February 13, 2015, 12:41:21 PM

Good news everybody! Hubs were completed today and the PC'er said the rubber did not melt. I will post photos on Monday when I pick up the parts.

Plan on replacing them soon. They are going to wear improperly now that they have been hardened. So when the time comes will it be less work to remove everything and replace them with new one you will have to purchase than if you had done it correctly the first time.
These rubbers have an engineered tensile strength that saves wear and tear on hard parts in the bike, you have lost that cushion now.

cgarbe · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2015, 10:01:54 AM »

Hey everyone! Thanks for all the info so far. So I got the PC parts back today...not sure how I feel about the job they did masking areas off. Looks like some PC got onto the threads and also on a few surfaces. Let me know what you guys think.

cgarbe · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2015, 10:10:49 AM »

cgarbe · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2015, 10:12:34 AM »

and more.

Kevin · « **Reply #26 on:** February 16, 2015, 12:37:44 PM »

Hey Chris,
I think they look pretty good. Most of the un PC'ed area's will be hidden so you wont notice the funky mask job. You might notice the outside of the hub where the sprocket goes, but since the sprocket will be in place it will break up the continuity and take your eye away from it. I wouldn't worry about it.

As for the PC over spray in the threads I would say to run a tap through to clean up the threads, but really who has a tap that big?
Use a pick or a dental scale tool (My hygienist saves all the used ones in her office for me, they work great!) and just do the best you can to clean up the threads. Doesn't look like there's a lot of over spray so it shouldn't be too difficult to do.

John Eberly · « **Reply #27 on:** February 16, 2015, 01:26:55 PM »

Some powdercoat is soluble in lacquer thinner. You could very carefully use the corner of a rag to wipe on some thinner and clean off the excess coating if it's necessary.

NobleHops · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2015, 06:06:08 AM »

That's a sloppy, lazy job. Getting that powder out of those threads is going to be a pain, and it needs to come out of those dampers too or the sprocket carrier is going to wedge in there super hard, if you can even get it in.

Rear wheel spacer bears on that brake panel, good luck getting that flat and it's going to wear and scuff when you torque the axle.

F-

cgarbe · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2015, 07:52:33 AM »

I agree NobleHops. This was my first powdercoating experience and I'm not too happy with a few things. The over-spray on the threads is real annoying. I'm gonna take them to a shop and have the threads re-tapped and just have them install the bearings while I'm there. Hopefully they have a tap that large.

So after the bearings are installed I'm sending the hubs out to Buchanan's Spoke to have the Sun Aluminum Black Anodized Rims (both rims 2.15x18) along with stainless steel spokes that will be laced and trued by Buchanan's Spoke.

Kevin · « **Reply #30 on:** February 17, 2015, 08:40:17 AM »

Just curious why you want the wider rim on the front?
The bike will handle better with the 1.85 (WM2) rim and thinner tire on the front.
Not knocking your choice, it might be the look you are after, just curious.

I have the anodized black Sun rims laced up with Buchanan spokes and love them. My hubs are also powder coated black. Your set up will almost be identical to mine except I went with the WM2 /WM3 rim size.

chewbacca5000 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 17, 2015, 08:58:20 AM »

Kevin,

Don't be too hard on yourself PC is not as easy as it looks. If you got over spray inside the brake hub that really sucks as it will take forever and a year to sand off. The key I found to a perfect finish is to have the surface be super smooth to begin with.

For example I thought PC signals would be easy, but the old crappy chrome behaves in a very unpredictable way. Don't give up on PC, just be sure to do a better job of taping.

cgarbe · « **Reply #32 on:** February 17, 2015, 12:03:43 PM »

Hey Kevin!

Yeah, I contemplated the rim size for a while but finally decided on the larger front tire/rim because I'm not a big-time, knee scraping in the turns kinda guy. I live in downtown Columbus, Ohio and really just ride my bikes to cruise around. I'm favoring form over function. : )

cgarbe · « **Reply #33 on:** February 17, 2015, 07:42:50 PM »

So took the hubs to the shop and the tears went on without a problem...except they had to take the bearing spacer off the bearing.

The front hub however was a problem. Couldn't get the retainer onto the hub so it was recommended I have it machined to remove the PC as well as the boogered thread.

Sigh

Doggie · « **Reply #34 on:** February 17, 2015, 08:57:52 PM »

Question: Has anyone powder coated the rim, hub and spokes all together?

cgarbe · « **Reply #35 on:** February 18, 2015, 10:52:35 AM »

I feel like that would lead to a lot of cracking of the powder coating around the spokes.

chewbacca5000 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 18, 2015, 10:57:41 AM »

Quote from: Doggie on February 17, 2015, 08:57:52 PM

Question: Has anyone powder coated the rim, hub and spokes all together?

People have done it with decent results, but rim can not be trued afterwards. It is a "one time thing"

Check this out

News:

Author Topic: Powdercoating Hubs on CB400F (Read 2821 times)