Author Topic: 71 CB500 project. (Read 8746 times)

calj737 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 17, 2015, 05:22:41 AM »

The surge is probably mostly associated with the induction changes you made: pod and drilled jets. Pods are fun enough, but they will create stumbles in certain rev ranges. You have to realize you're dealing with carbs and not electronic fuel injection. So unlike our modern rides or cars, these carbs work off mechanical changes in the fuel system and depend quite heavily on vacuum pressure.

You've changed the vacuum "meter" if you will by dropping the air box (I'm not hating, just explaining) and now the vacuum pressure changes drastically at higher speeds due to turbulence. You're probably hitting a lean spot in the A/F mixture and until the carbs catch up and dump enough fuel through the secondary jet, you're momentarily starving. You're also experiencing the fact that the throttle needs to be "rolled on" not whacked open to perform as smoothly as possible.

Set this down to mechanical carbs and pods/non-stock exhaust. If you want to eliminate it, you'll need to book some time on a dyno to really and accurately understand where/when/why the changes need to be made.

Glad you're up and running again!

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 17, 2015, 01:14:10 PM »

Thanks for the fast reply and no worry no hate taken. I enjoy learning more about my bike as I go, thats why I didnt buy a complete/newer bike....well that and budget lol. I know a lot of people hate pods on these old bikes/carbs. I guess a little more clarification is needed. It normally happens when Im in 5th gear (but has happened in others) and around 5000 rpm which is about 55mph for me. If I slowly, roll on the throttle it accelerates to 5500-6000 rpm than jumps like its free reving. From this point I can either hold the throttle and it will rev up a bit than "catch" and I can accelerate OR if I roll off the throttle a little and roll back on it accelerates fine. If any more info is needed just ask and Ill do my best to answer.
Today I played with the fuel/air mixture screws and got it to coast much better at about 3000-4000 rpm for in town riding, because it use to pop or backfire?? not completely sure the difference yet lol Screws are about 2 turns out. I also went and looked at my needle clips and apparently they were set at the highest,near the pointy end (this is higher right?) so I put them in the middle and now notice the Bike surges near 4500rpm. I am going to try putting the clip up one (near pointy end) and see what that will do. Question, when syncing carbs with a manometer what should my vacuum pressure be? I have read before that is doesnt matter as long as they are the same.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #27 on:** April 17, 2015, 02:40:02 PM »

Quote from: cafehonda500 on April 17, 2015, 01:14:10 PM

I guess a little more clarification is needed. It normally happens when Im in 5th gear (but has happened in others) and around 5000 rpm which is about 55mph for me. If I slowly, roll on the throttle it accelerates to 5500-6000 rpm than jumps like its free reving. From this point I can either hold the throttle and it will rev up a bit than "catch" and I can accelerate OR if I roll off the throttle a little and roll back on it accelerates fine

That sounds like a the clutch slipping under load to me....

calj737 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 17, 2015, 04:01:51 PM »

Retro beat me to it. Your description of 5th gear issues really does sound like a slipping clutch.

Popping is "lean" and surging could be lean or vacuum leak.

Synch pressures don't matter: so long as they're the same.

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 01, 2015, 08:05:34 AM »

Hey guys! So I decided it was time to rewire my bike since its been gloomy here recently. I bought the Motogadget M-Unit and M-Button. Bought them directly form Motogadgets website for slightly cheaper than any american dealer will sell them. My old wiring was worn cracked and looked like 5 people tried fixing the last guys mistake. There were quick splices into a taped splice into a pigtail all leading to a dead wire. No Good!!! So I have ripped off the old wiring and started running lines to the Motogadget. For the most part using the Motogadget is very easy and even a wiring idiot like me can get it. So far I have the key switch, horn, blinkers, brake light, and starter button all working. Now to the part were I am getting confused fast. I have done lots of searching on forms how to wire this but keep getting confused. I am not sure how to wire the Headlight controls to the M-Button (using stock 3 way switch). Also maybe a dumb question, But I keep reading different things on it, What do I run the Factory Black wire to??? Is this just a ground? looking at the stock wiring diagram it see they all connect but dont see were it goes to. And Last of all, I am not too sure how to wire my charging system. i understand you use Aux out for one wire to the coils, but thats it. I am using the all the stock charging stuff, I think stock, the Regulator is a 5 prong. any advice, tips, and tricks would be a nice help lol
Also here is my work in progress. This is my ideal mounting spot, but if you notice anything wrong let me know.

calj737 · « **Reply #30 on:** May 01, 2015, 09:15:19 AM »

CH500 - Its pretty easy to resolve your wiring because you don't need much of the stock wiring. Thats where most people become confused...

Key switch -
Red to Battery +
Black to LOCK (m-unit port)
Brown/Brown White - abandon

Headlight controls-
Lo beam wire to m-button Light

The stock Honda BLACK is switched 12v and definitely not a ground!. Solid GREEN is the stock GROUND color from Honda.

From AUX:
run a BLACK wire to KILL switch, then use BLK/WHT stock wire to COILS. This allows the KILL switch to interrupt power to the coils when needed. Also, AUX is used to deliver 12v power to: Gauge backlights, license plate light, and tail light. BRAKE power comes form BRAKE.

Essentially, every port on the "right side of the m-unit" is delivering switched 12v" to the component. So, the output of HORN is power, and the horn component needs to be wired to GROUND on the other spade connector. This differs slightly from the stock orientation.

Your REGULATOR needs to be tapped into the LOCK port to monitor the 12v status of the battery (being serviced by key BLACK). Make sense?

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 01, 2015, 09:40:12 AM »

I was hoping you would reply Calj, but i didnt expect so fast! I have the key switch wired as you said already.

For headlights do i just abandon the other wires from my switch than and only use the low beam light?

The black wire is still confusing me with. Say blinkers, if I ground the black wire they work proper. So I guess I dont understand how to run the black wire still.

As for the coils, I thought the start button acted as your kill switch, double tap and it kills, and the stock kill was no longer needed. So with this set up you ran the coil black/white wire from Aux out on the M-Unit?

So I understand the Left side of the M-Unit is all the IN controls, in my case the M-Button, Rear Brake, and Key switch, and the Right side is all your power out. You run your right side power outs to the power wire from of say your lights and horn correct? Than ground the other wire to complete the loop? This is my basic understanding.

So do you run the black to your Aux port for switched 12v?

Thanks for the amazingly fast reply, your past write ups and comments to others using Motogadget are what pushed me to get it and helped me get this far!

calj737 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 01, 2015, 09:50:48 AM »

Quote from: cafehonda500 on May 01, 2015, 09:40:12 AM

I was hoping you would reply Calj, but i didnt expect so fast! I have the key switch wired as you said already.

For headlights do i just abandon the other wires from my switch than and only use the low beam light? Yes, just the single wire to m-button is all you need. The m-unit understands thru programming (you have yet to do) that when you flip the light Hi/Lo switch to jump the power from Lite Lo output to Lite Hi output.

The black wire is still confusing me with. Say blinkers, if I ground the black wire they work proper. So I guess I dont understand how to run the black wire still.Lets be sure we are talking about the same BLACK wire. In your stock harness, BLACK is switched 12v. If you are using aftermarket blinkers, then they may use a Red and Black wire, Black being the lights ground. Is that what you have?

As for the coils, I thought the start button acted as your kill switch, double tap and it kills, and the stock kill was no longer needed. It can. Are you using stock handlebar controls? If so, I would still utilize the KILL switch. From a safety issue, an unfamiliar rider would rely on KILL and if they didn't know to double tap START, then they could have issues.
If you are using an aftermarket switch, momentary for instance, then tap/double tap is good and you use KEY to kill the bike's power.

So with this set up you ran the coil black/white wire from Aux out on the M-Unit? In a stock configuration, BLACK from Aux to KILL. Then use the stock BLK/WHT (which is already internally jumpered) to feed the coils.

So I understand the Left side of the M-Unit is all the IN controls, in my case the M-Button, Rear Brake, and Key switch, and the Right side is all your power out. You run your right side power outs to the power wire from of say your lights and horn correct? Than ground the other wire (at the component) to complete the loop? This is my basic understanding. Correct.

So do you run the black to your Aux port for switched 12v? Nope. Key BLACK to LOCK. Then I use BLACK wire again to come out of Aux to feed switched 12v to the components. This keeps the wiring colors close to stock whenever possible for subsequent owners, mechanics, etc to follow.

Thanks for the amazingly fast reply, your past write ups and comments to others using Motogadget are what pushed me to get it and helped me get this far!

Dude, happy to help. If you want to PM me, I'll give you a personal email address and we can hash every bit out once I know exactly your inventory of components, gauges, lighting and switches. Or I'll monitor this thread and post replies for the benefit of others. Either way is easy-

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 02, 2015, 12:19:39 PM »

Is there any trick for getting the thicker 2.5mm wires into the m-unit. I can't get any to work.

calj737 · « **Reply #34 on:** May 02, 2015, 02:08:25 PM »

Back the screw out as far as it will go. They will slide in the terminal plug then.

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 02, 2015, 03:05:24 PM »

OK I ran new wire for my coils. Kept the blue and yellow stock color. Ran the black/white to kill switch black/white.

Black wire is still killing me. Ran from aux out to front of bike. Connected all the black up there (only black). Now nothing works with Aux light up. If I turn it off (no light on Aux). They work idk what I'm doing.

Headlight is ran with white low light wire to m-button. Light is off when key on, switch to low position it jumps to high. Switch to high it goes to low. Switch all the way to off and it is at high.

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 02, 2015, 03:11:42 PM »

Correction the headlight goes to low when switched to off.

Blinkers only work with aux on if I hold the brown wire to ground.

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #37 on:** May 02, 2015, 03:45:47 PM »

Another update.
Don't yell at me, but when I ground the black wire and not ran to aux blinkers, brake, light all work when aux is on.

calj737 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 02, 2015, 04:53:52 PM »

Do this: wire it exactly as I told you. Then, when it's wired up. You need to configure the menu of the M-Unit and inform it about your switches (4 button, 5 button or 6 button). You also need to decide upon how you want your indicators and brake lights to function.

Have you done that part yet? (It's the trickiest part)

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #39 on:** May 02, 2015, 05:04:41 PM »

Actually yes I did that mid way through so I could test stuff. It is set for switch controls. Blinker cancel at 50sec. Blinker fade in/out. And blinkers as position lights. Was actually easy to do as I had a button already.
I believe it may be reading my headlight as only a 2 way switch not 3 way. The manual says 3 way switch for blinkers but only switch for headlight. I can live with this as I want buttons in the future.
But the aux/black wire issue is still bugging me

calj737 · « **Reply #40 on:** May 02, 2015, 05:09:44 PM »

A few posts above, I asked you about the handlebar controls and indicators. Are the stock? Are they aftermarket? And you keep saying "grounding the black wire for the turn signals..." Is this black wire coming from the indicator? Pictures, pictures, pictures.

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 03, 2015, 01:37:44 PM »

I believe the controls are stock. Every wire matches up with the factory wording/colors. I am grounding the black wire from the controls.

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 03, 2015, 01:39:22 PM »

Controls

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 03, 2015, 01:41:06 PM »

Wires

calj737 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 03, 2015, 04:25:39 PM »

As I said previously, the stock BLACK is switched 12v. The housing grounds the switches to the bars.

Now the stock switch colors (Turn L, Turn R, Hi/Lo, Horn, Start, etc) go to the input side of the m-unit. The output side goes to the component (blinker, head light, tail light). AUX does NOT feed the handlebar controls any longer. Aux feeds the gauge, tail light, license plate light, and ignition.

Grounding BLACK from the handlebars has no involvement. The housing is grounded, the switch wire (color) is the other side of the circuit (ground) to the m-unit.

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #45 on:** May 03, 2015, 05:11:11 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on May 03, 2015, 04:25:39 PM

As I said previously, the stock BLACK is switched 12v. The housing grounds the switches to the bars.

AUX does NOT feed the handlebar controls any longer. Aux feeds the gauge, tail light, license plate light, and ignition.
Quote from: calj737 on May 01, 2015, 09:50:48 AM

So do you run the black to your Aux port for switched 12v? Nope. Key BLACK to LOCK. Then I use BLACK wire again to come out of Aux to feed switched 12v to the components.

Right here is why I am confused. If stock black is switched 12v what do i run to it from the M-Unit. From what I under stand in one post you are saying run Aux to the stock black wire. But in this one you are saying I dont.

calj737 · « **Reply #46 on:** May 03, 2015, 07:41:27 PM »

Perhaps the confusion is: you don't run BLACK to AUX you run Black (switched 12v from AUX. my earlier point was to differentiate where the switched 12v comes from and therein I confused you.

So to recap:
From Key switch, BLACK to Lock on the M-Unit. From AUX, I also use a BLACK to deliver 12v to gauges, ignition, and tail light.

Also: your stock indicator lights, brake light, horn all need a ground wire from them to the frame. The wire running from the M-Unit to the component (indicator, horn, etc) now delivers 12v when you push the handlebar switch. Make sense?

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #47 on:** May 03, 2015, 07:48:00 PM »

This makes more sense. But what do I connect the black wires from the controls to? Do I splice them in with the output? Say blinkers. Do I attach the black wire from the factory control to the blinker out on the unit?

calj737 · « **Reply #48 on:** May 03, 2015, 07:57:16 PM »

The black wire at the control housings is now abandoned. Your blinkers use the colored wire connected to the m-unit output side and the other wire at the blinkers to frame ground.

Here's a different explanation, and perhaps why you're so confused:
Stock configuration, the handlebar housings had 12v wire (black) run to them, then internally had a BR/WHT jumpered internally to run power to the blinker. The blinker got its ground from the switch when activated. It always had 12v run to it, but only when the turn signal was activated at the handlebar, was the ground completed, thus illimunistati get the light.

Now, the handlebar color wire runs to the input side of m-unit as the "ground" then when switch is activated, the ground is completed at the m-unit and power is transferred from left side to right side of m-unit and then delivered to the blinker. So now the blinker needs a wire to ground, which is the reverse from stock. So I wire the blinkers to ground, and I use the stock color wire to and from the m-unit to bring power, and send the "signal".

Does this help any?

cafehonda500 · « **Reply #49 on:** May 03, 2015, 08:06:04 PM »

ok the stock black is abandoned this would have made life easier lol. But now I think i have a bigger issue, the controls do not work when i abandon there black wire. Is there any reason for this? could I have miss wired something?

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Author Topic: 71 CB500 project. (Read 8746 times)