Author Topic: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?  (Read 3605 times)

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Offline chewbacca5000

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RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« on: February 18, 2015, 07:04:57 PM »
I remember reading in Hondaman's book about how the lighter camshaft gear with the holes really makes a difference with in throttle response.

It go me to thinking that if a camshaft was balanced and lightened it could make a big difference to throttle response and HP.  Has anyone ever done this?  It just makes sense as the blanks appear to be rather crude.

popularmechanics said the 2008 CBR1000 lighter cams shaved 1.1 pounds.  1.1 lbs has to make a difference right?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a2550/4246367/
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 07:08:30 PM by chewbacca5000 »

Offline Trad

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 07:09:12 PM »
I was actually thinking about this a few weeks ago after seeing some beautifully balanced cranks on here. This a really cool hotrod article I came across in my searches.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ctrp-0603-cam-shaft-balancing/
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 07:18:09 PM »
I was actually thinking about this a few weeks ago after seeing some beautifully balanced cranks on here. This a really cool hotrod article I came across in my searches.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ctrp-0603-cam-shaft-balancing/

Thanks that was a good read.  Guess there is some HP to be had there when pushing past 10k

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 07:23:15 PM »
I am guessing that was 1.1 lbs split between two camshafts on the CBR...I think some modern cams have lobes and journals pressed onto hollow shaft...balancing could be done at the timing sprocket?
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 07:29:25 PM »
Here is the cb750 yoshimura cam.  This has to be balanced some how.  No rough stuff everything is milled smooth.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 08:11:34 PM »
Here is the cb750 yoshimura cam.  This has to be balanced some how.  No rough stuff everything is milled smooth.

That cam is a work of art... :o
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 03:52:55 AM »
Here is the cb750 yoshimura cam.  This has to be balanced some how.  No rough stuff everything is milled smooth.

That cam is a work of art... :o


Since you have the RSC rods it would be ashame not to have the matching cam that was originally in the Daytona bike.

Offline PeWe

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 04:18:25 AM »
Daytona spec look very mild   http://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21_126&products_id=1540

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 01:39:02 PM »
Here is the cb750 yoshimura cam.  This has to be balanced some how.  No rough stuff everything is milled smooth.

That cam is a work of art... :o


Since you have the RSC rods it would be ashame not to have the matching cam that was originally in the Daytona bike.

For almost $1300 AUD, no thanks... :o ;)
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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 02:55:30 PM »
Here is the cb750 yoshimura cam.  This has to be balanced some how.  No rough stuff everything is milled smooth.

That cam is a work of art... :o


Since you have the RSC rods it would be ashame not to have the matching cam that was originally in the Daytona bike.

For almost $1300 AUD, no thanks... :o ;)
That's before customs get's hold of your nuts.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 03:45:45 PM »
Here is the cb750 yoshimura cam.  This has to be balanced some how.  No rough stuff everything is milled smooth.

That cam is a work of art... :o


Since you have the RSC rods it would be ashame not to have the matching cam that was originally in the Daytona bike.

For almost $1300 AUD, no thanks... :o ;)
That's before customs get's hold of your nuts.

Fortunately, I have a good friend in Japan.... ;D ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 04:10:12 PM »
Here is the cb750 yoshimura cam.  This has to be balanced some how.  No rough stuff everything is milled smooth.

That cam is a work of art... :o


Since you have the RSC rods it would be ashame not to have the matching cam that was originally in the Daytona bike.

For almost $1300 AUD, no thanks... :o ;)
That's before customs get's hold of your nuts.

Fortunately, I have a good friend in Japan.... ;D ;)
Bastard ;D

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2015, 04:18:32 PM »
Here is the cb750 yoshimura cam.  This has to be balanced some how.  No rough stuff everything is milled smooth.

That cam is a work of art... :o


Since you have the RSC rods it would be ashame not to have the matching cam that was originally in the Daytona bike.

For almost $1300 AUD, no thanks... :o ;)
That's before customs get's hold of your nuts.

Fortunately, I have a good friend in Japan.... ;D ;)
Bastard ;D

I resemble that remark.... 8)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Don R

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2015, 08:24:14 PM »
 Since the cam is small in diameter, it has a small rotating mass, (moment of inertia?) more gain will be found by lightening the crank rods, pistons and that big old dyno.
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Offline Bailgang

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2015, 04:20:16 AM »
The balancing is interesting if squeezing every bit of HP is a must especially if it enhances reliability but depending on the material the cam is made of makes me shy of lightening the cam itself aside from a lighter cam gear.
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2015, 04:35:24 AM »
Ok who know if the metal material is machinable?  I'd say it is probably the same material as the crank and they are balanced and lightened all the time.  All I want is a cb750 with a 12,000 RPM red line is that too much to ask?

Offline Bailgang

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2015, 05:14:09 AM »
The reason for my apprehension is because of my days of hot rodding. A cam from a typical American V-8 (non billet cam) tends to be very hard/brittle so much so that dropping one on the floor is all that's needed to snap one in half, I've done it a few times just for kicks with old discarded automotive cams but not to an old 750 cam and not knowing what the material of the cams of our 750's are made of, cast or forged or how brittle they may be makes me wary. I'm not disregarding the idea, I'm just apprehensive. Maybe the idea is more applicable to say a custom billet cam but that shoots the price up from the start, I guess it all depends on how much you're willing to spend.

I don't mean to hijack the thread but when replacing all the bearings in the trans of my 750 what got my attention was ceramic roller bearings that are available, the problem though was the price was way more than my wallet could deal with.
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Offline Muckinfuss

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Re: RE: Anyone ever lightened and balanced a camshaft?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2015, 08:43:51 AM »
If you're serious about 12K rpm, then you need two things....deep pockets and get a thorough understanding of where HP, Torque, RPMs and the associated engineering for each come from......ie: the book "How to Hot Rod Small Block Chevy's".  Ironically, much of hot rodding engines, even today, come from lessons learned in making WW2 fighter plane engines faster, better, more reliable.  No engine has been more thoroughly modified than the small block.....good to learn from what worked there.  If your engine is bone stock, then it makes max HP at 8500 RPM, even tho it red lines at 9300.  Those extra 800 RPM just burn more gasoline and return nothing.  To shoot for 12000....you're asking every in that engine/drive train to do 40% more work.  That's a lot.

In a nutshell, I don't know what you've already done to your engine, but rest assured IMO, starting at the top end will begin a lengthy and expensive series of tear downs.  Piston skirts shortened (and of the correct material!) lightened piston pins, rod modifications, crankshaft rebuilding to lighten and balance will do more to get your magic RPM's than shaving the warts off of a stock cam shaft.  One thing you may want to pay particular attention to is the cam chain itself.  I can't say I've ever seen any numbers that give it a known upper limit on its integral strength.  Then there's the whole system of springs, rockers etc. that the cam touches.  I'd be very leery of using a slipper foot rocker at those RPM's.  Look at the amount of skuffs and 'chuck holes' in the stock engine rockers.  Good luck and let us know how you make out.
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