Author Topic: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range  (Read 5458 times)

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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2015, 05:12:53 PM »
That was my first plan but I didn't want to take apart my steering neck at the time to get a good weld. Also, I wanted something removable. Oh, and for what it's worth, I used an 8-32 tap. Good luck


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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2015, 07:09:06 PM »
As mentioned earlier, and can be seen in the pic, I used 5mmx.80.  Josh, I think the pictures are decieving and your stops are little, if any, smaller.
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Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2015, 08:59:43 AM »
That was my first plan but I didn't want to take apart my steering neck at the time to get a good weld. Also, I wanted something removable. Oh, and for what it's worth, I used an 8-32 tap. Good luck


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As mentioned earlier, and can be seen in the pic, I used 5mmx.80.  Josh, I think the pictures are decieving and your stops are little, if any, smaller.

Thank you guys, I will measure my stops tonight and let you know. I would also prefer drill and tap rather than disassemble and welding.  :-\

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Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2015, 05:52:47 PM »
These are the measurements:

The right one measures 9.3x10mm, and it has the rounded side pointing to the back of the bike. So, drill and tap ain't going to be easy.

The left one measures 13x9.5mm and it looks like the bike had a crash and the steering stop was bended, so someone welded some material, so ugly but functional. Drill and tap it is going to be a pain in the lower back. I may need to grind one side to have a nice drilling plane.
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2015, 06:37:40 PM »
Use a punch first to keep the drill bit from drifting.

Also, I'm definitely no expert, but it does look like it's smashed a little. In your original post you said the forks hit the tank. I don't think that's common. Could the steering stem be bent in a way that allows the forks to hit the tank?  I'm visualizing a head on collision forcing the front forks towards the headers. Also with the front wheel turned to the left...that would explain the mangled right steering stop. Maybe it's not as bad as I think because I don't have that much experience, but something doesn't feel right. Have you ridden this bike yet? Any handling issues?


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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2015, 06:44:56 PM »
Dave, his tank is not stock.
If it works good, it looks good...


Offline mystic_1

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2015, 09:44:25 PM »
it does look like it's smashed a little

Agreed, that second pic, the stop looks pretty well mangled.  So much so that I don't know that I'd trust its structural integrity if drilled.

The flat spot on the backside of the stop suggests to me that someone tried to hammer it back into shape  ???

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Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2015, 08:29:27 AM »
it does look like it's smashed a little

Agreed, that second pic, the stop looks pretty well mangled.  So much so that I don't know that I'd trust its structural integrity if drilled.

The flat spot on the backside of the stop suggests to me that someone tried to hammer it back into shape  ???

mystic_1

Yeah... I won't have any problems with the left one, but the right one is going to be a whole different story. So, at this point, I don't know if it would be better to weld or drill and tap (at least for the right side). I have to take a decision, since I'm doing this tomorrow.

Oh, and regarding the "hammer it back into shape", I don't think that's the case. When everything was stripped down after sand blast, that side of the steering stop looked more like grind it than hammer it.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 09:10:00 AM by Joshevelle »
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Offline mgzych

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2015, 06:37:06 AM »
Joshevelle, did you have any luck with this?  I need to adjust my stops, too, and I've been watching this thread about yours with interest.

Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2015, 11:05:03 AM »
Joshevelle, did you have any luck with this?  I need to adjust my stops, too, and I've been watching this thread about yours with interest.

Yes, I drilled and tapped the left stop without problems as expected . Unfortunately the right one was a whole different history. The tap broked and it's currently stucked in there. I will definitely NOT disassemblying the whole front end to take the triple tree to a machinist shop take the tap out. So I will add welding joints to obtain the separation I require on that side.

I started with a punch, then a small drill bit, then 1/8" drill bit and a 5/23-32 tap.

Cheers.
Josh
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Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2015, 11:06:33 AM »
And here is the right one.

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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2015, 11:17:52 AM »

And here is the right one.

I broke a tap in one too. Luckily it sheared off in a way that made it possible to use pliers to get it out again. Not sure why it's so much more difficult. I've tapped many many things before but this bottom triple was precarious. Maybe because it's cast or maybe because it's hardened? Either way, after that I used a lot of oil and went reeeaallly slowly with another tap and it worked out just fine. How are you getting the tap out? Can you shatter it with a punch and extract the pieces?


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Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2015, 12:56:11 PM »
I've done a lot of taps too, and this is the 3rd tap I broke in my entire life. I don't know the material composition, is probably cast. However I don't think that was the problem here, the right stop was bended and has some welding points, so I was basically taping a welding joint.

I might be aboe to shatter it with a punch, I will try that, if it doesn't work I'd take my MIG and simply add some material to increase the width of the stop.

Cheers.
Josh
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Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2015, 01:05:38 PM »
I found a very hseful tool, but I don't think I'm buying this. Nice toy tough.

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Offline mgzych

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2015, 02:50:36 PM »
Josheville, bummer about the broken tap. Did you decide next steps?  Your troubles may actually help me and others to decide how to go about this, since it sounds like you may have a direct comparison between the drill & tap and weld methods, both in installation and effectiveness. . Keep us posted, ok?
Btw, I'm new to tapping my own threaded holes. Any pointers, especially with this particular operation?  And what is a 5/23-32 tap (if you'll forgive my naïveté)?  I looked on boltdepot.com (my only reference) and I don't see that designation and a corresponding bolt/screw size.
Mark

Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2015, 05:00:15 PM »
Josheville, bummer about the broken tap. Did you decide next steps?  Your troubles may actually help me and others to decide how to go about this, since it sounds like you may have a direct comparison between the drill & tap and weld methods, both in installation and effectiveness. . Keep us posted, ok?
Btw, I'm new to tapping my own threaded holes. Any pointers, especially with this particular operation?  And what is a 5/23-32 tap (if you'll forgive my naïveté)?  I looked on boltdepot.com (my only reference) and I don't see that designation and a corresponding bolt/screw size.
Mark

Hello mgzych,

Sorry for not replying sooner, I just finished today. I opted to add some welding joints. Unfortunately I don't have the drill and tap info, but I let you know as soon as I can.

Cheers!
Josh
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Offline mgzych

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2015, 04:44:05 AM »
Thanks, Josheville. I picked up the things I think I need--M5x0.8 tap & handle, #19 drill bit, cutting oil, and a selection of SS M5 Allen head screws, both caps and buttons. I'll get to work on it next week. (The kids are keeping me busy for spring break week!) I'll share results when complete...or will be back here asking more questions if I run into trouble!

Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2015, 06:59:51 AM »
You're very welcome welcome mgzych. I'm glad you find the things you needed.

In my opinion, I would rather prefer to drill and tap instead of  welding material to the stops; you can easily adjust the screw in the stop but the welding joints would be harder to "adjust" or remove them at all. Nevertheless, the welding didn't take more than 3min and removing the broken tap would imply disassembling the whole front end and take the triple tree to a machinists shop, I tried to shatter the tap but the space to work I had with the triple tree installed was very small, so I took my MIG and 3min later I was installing my gas tank.  8)

Good look with both, the motorcycle and the kids!

have fun,
Josh
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Offline calj737

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2015, 07:37:34 AM »
Only downside to welding cast iron is the heat will de-temper the metal if you're not careful. Then, the stops are far more brittle and prone to breaking than originally. Everything has an upside and a downside.
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Offline Joshevelle

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2015, 08:45:33 AM »
Only downside to welding cast iron is the heat will de-temper the metal if you're not careful. Then, the stops are far more brittle and prone to breaking than originally. Everything has an upside and a downside.

Hello calj737.

Actually I didn't think about that, thanks for the advice.

However the right stop was already bent and had some welding material on it, so I think it was already de-tempered.  :-\

-Josh
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Offline mgzych

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CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2015, 09:12:04 PM »
Thanks, Josheville. I picked up the things I think I need--M5x0.8 tap & handle, #19 drill bit, cutting oil, and a selection of SS M5 Allen head screws, both caps and buttons. I'll get to work on it next week. (The kids are keeping me busy for spring break week!) I'll share results when complete...or will be back here asking more questions if I run into trouble!
So I set about drilling and tapping my stops.  The first (left side) went flawlessly.
The second (right side)...not so much. Somehow my drill bit wandered inward and upward, so much so that there's no "meat" left above the hole. You can actually see the ridges of the tapped threads at the top of the stop. Clearly I'm not much of a machinist.

So, now I need more advice.  Do I just leave it and hope that it'll hold?  Or do I try to fill it somehow and try again?  I have no access to welding services.  So if the latter is a possibility, would something like JB Weld be the answer?  Can that be "machined" once it's in place?  I appreciate any feedback.  Here's to learning as we go...
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 09:15:05 PM by mgzych »

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2015, 11:26:51 PM »
run it...worse case scenario is a dented tank.  or buy a new lower triple and try again...$20-$40
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline mgzych

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2015, 04:58:16 AM »

run it...worse case scenario is a dented tank.  or buy a new lower triple and try again...$20-$40
Thanks, Seanbarney. I was afraid that would be the first response I got.  I'm just frustrated with myself for having fouled it up.  I was just hoping that the part that came before "...try again" might be "just pump some XYZ in that hole and..." Instead of "buy a new lower triple..."  Wishful thinking, perhaps.
Do you know of any magical XYZ goop that might work?  Is removing the lower triple a big ordeal?  I guess I could give it a try when I replace fork seals, which I'm rather dreading, mostly because I'm a bit intimidated by the process.
I'm finding I really enjoy the time down in the basement freshening this bike up. But now the weather's getting nice here, and I'm getting anxious to get it back on the road.

Offline mystic_1

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Re: CB550K 1974 - Steering safety travel range
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2015, 05:37:16 AM »
Nah, there's no panacea here.  You _could_ fill the hole in with JB Weld, which is as close as you can come to what you're asking for, but that'll really do exactly zero good here.  The only real solution is to weld in the hole, grind the weld flat, and then re-drill.

I would do two things:

1. Tap your holes, add bolts, and run the existing triple tree just the way it is.
2. Buy a new triple tree, and do the drilling and tapping on it while it's off the bike, and then only install it if you are successful.

This gets you the maximum road time.  The existing tree will probably be just fine like that, the steering stops take very little force in normal operation, so just avoid high-speed tank slappers and it'll be fine.  You'll find it much easier to do the mod on the new tree when it's not on the bike.

The hardest part about swapping the lower triple tree will be replacing the bearings and dealing with the wiring.  Aside from that, since you were planning on replacing the fork seals anyway, it's only a little bit of disassembly past dropping the forks out, to swap out the lower tree.

mystic_1
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