Topic: turboguzzi/Suzuki ignition mod.

[bwaller]

I replied to your emails. Is your rotor "pinned" to the crank end. Do you have a spare ignitor box?

Looks like your wiring is correct but like TG mentions try reversing your coil leads if it's backfiring.

I'll send pics tomorrow of the exact rotor/pickup position at TDC. Hoping to get in the shop and lock the door.

[Rocketman]

Thanks TG and Brent for following up.  The rotor is pinned to the crank and I have two boxes and pick ups.  Pretty sure it is an installation issue as I am getting spark at the plugs.  I noticed my rotor and the one on Brent's have different numbers on them.  Will be interested in where yours lines up at TDC.  I did swap the coil leads with no joy.  Did not try switching the wires from the pick up. 

With the bike running my stress level has dropped to manageable.   

[turboguzzi]

there seems to be two types of rotor, one like yours the other has 90 degs rotation of the timing.

both would be managed by pickup plate rotation, but easiest to figure would be with a strobe light

i remember that first time i tried i didnt have a strobe gun so i simply used the spark plugs themselves as a strobe light source in a fully dark garage,

amazingly, i could see the timing quite well!

[bwaller]

Martin send your email again please. Pics couldn't deliver.

[Rocketman]

An update on my ignition troubles.  Was able to finish installing the Suzuki ignition today and successfully started my CB550.  Had a couple of issues with my set up.  The first was the wrong Signal Rotor.  There are multiple rotors and they are not identical.  Among the differences is the slot cut in the back which captures the pin in the end of the crank.  This affects the timing.  The correct part number is 33120-17E20 from the 92 to 95 GSXR-600, GSXR-750, and GSXR-1100.  The other parts to the system is an Igniter Unit/box and Signal Generator/pickup. There are Igniter Unit/box options depending on what rev limit and advance curve you want.  I am following Brent's lead and using 32900-48B10 from the 88 to 93 GSX1100 with a 11,100 rev limit.  The Signal Generator/pickup I am using was also found on multiple bikes and is part number 33110-17C00 and is mounted to a backing plate.  I have not confirmed it, but it appears part 33110-17E00 is the same pickup without the backing plate.  The second issue was the wires to the negative side of the coils were backwards.  So my final wiring is:

Orange/White to positive side of battery
Black/Yellow to 1/4 coil
White to 2/3 coil
Black/White to Green/Yellow which is grounded at the ignition plate
Blue to Blue from pickup
Yellow to Yellow from pickup


My initial install aligned the rotor point and pickup at 5 degrees BTDC.  I'll get the timing light out tomorrow and set it at 28 degrees BTDC at full advance.  Looking forward to giving the system a try at the next race.

[cb550fcafe]

does anyone have pin locations on ignition box or should I source a used harness? This is for my race bike so very few wires will be used.

[turboguzzi]

should have them, lemme have a look in my hard drive

[turboguzzi]

here you go

[cb550fcafe]

thank you!

[cb550fcafe]

setting up pick up on plate now. Do we know when the ignition fires based on reluctor wheel to pick up center tab? Is it the leading edge of reluctor? Trying to figure out best static mounting position.

[bwaller]

I want to say leading edge. Aim for 0.025" air gap after you get it all mounted.

[cb550fcafe]

all installed. originally started to over think things. moved pick up to 3:00 position so I could make 30 degrees static timing. Anyway, moved pick up back to 6:00 position. No spark with big air gap. Made adjustment. Plenty of spark now.

So it occurred to me that the 28 degrees of timing is built into the igniter box. I set the pick up in at the leading edge and TDC, fired the motor and had advance. at 3k and above it was 28 degrees. So I was worried about static position of having 28 BTDC and didn't need to be. 

Thanks for all the help.

[cb550fcafe]

thanks guys. Picked up 2 wins in Middleweight Production. Two 3rd in my bump class against fast FZR600 and CBR600F2. I did hole shot those guys though. Mike Reick turned my cylinder head around lighting fast!

Two missed shifts verified the rev limiter works.

[turboguzzi]

congrats! is there anywhere to see clean pics of the bike without rider spoiling the view?

[bwaller]

Yeah, get out of the way Kevin!  Glad it worked out well, and congratulations.

You'll see guys with Suzuki's that these ignitions originally came off, using Dyna 2K's in place. I know what I gained going the "other way" and besides have been dead nuts reliable. Who's better off? I know I won't go back!

[MRieck]

Lucky we have some "mad" scientists on this forum.

[cb550fcafe]

congrats! is there anywhere to see clean pics of the bike without rider spoiling the view?

how's this? 

https://www.roadracingworld.com/news/ahrma-race-results-from-this-past-weekends-event-at-gingerman-raceway/

[simon#42]

ahrma seem to have an awful lot of classes and not many riders in any of them

[slikwilli420]

ahrma seem to have an awful lot of classes and not many riders in any of them

Definitely a lot of classes, but what is a lot of riders to you? Remember, most drive hundreds of miles to get to the race, so not really feasible for each class to be filled with the same guys every time out. Keep perspective that my home state of Michigan is larger than the United Kingdom. I am fortunate to have a track on the AHRMA schedule 45 min away, next closest is over 300 miles, the rest are 700 or more miles away.

My class had 11 riders this weekend and I consider that a resounding success from a number of entrants standpoint.

[simon#42]

when i started racing there was always three heats of 30 something bikes with 30 going into the final . when you won it seemed like you had done well . these days there are less  unfortunately  but the classes i follow still manage full grids  which is between 34 and 38 bikes
i was at the bikers classic last month and the  grids were all in the 80`s   
it is easier here in england to get to races as most are within a couple of hundred miles but many race in europe  where two thousand miles plus is not unusual .
many of the ahrma classes are similar . they could re write the rules and scrap half of them . who really wants to win a championship with less than a dozen competitors in it ?  and if they do what is it worth .

[slikwilli420]

when i started racing there was always three heats of 30 something bikes with 30 going into the final . when you won it seemed like you had done well . these days there are less  unfortunately  but the classes i follow still manage full grids  which is between 34 and 38 bikes
i was at the bikers classic last month and the  grids were all in the 80`s   
it is easier here in england to get to races as most are within a couple of hundred miles but many race in europe  where two thousand miles plus is not unusual .
many of the ahrma classes are similar . they could re write the rules and scrap half of them . who really wants to win a championship with less than a dozen competitors in it ?  and if they do what is it worth .

Id love to have grids that big and reduce the number of classes. It's worth whatever you believe its worth. You can't beat the guys that don't race. It still takes a lot of dedication and bike prep to travel the country even to race a few guys and get on the top of the box. My lap times put me in the top quarter of guys in my class, and I will likely finish second in points this season. My pride in myself is bigger than it ever has been. So, I guess it's worth a lot to me.

[simon#42]

well if it makes you happy .

[cb550fcafe]

ahrma seem to have an awful lot of classes and not many riders in any of them

yes we do have a lot of classes. RRW mag only published the top 6 in each race. There were quite a few in each race plus with the multiple classes on track at the same time there is usually plenty of racing going on.

big grids rarely happen in the US. Barber will be the biggest. 600 entries is the cap though last year they capped at 700.

[turboguzzi]

same situation in italy, race weekends do have some 300 racers registered, but when you split them into all classes (including regularity) you end up with some classes having up to 15 people max, many others dwindled to 6.... What to do then? Tell people it's not a worthy championship, so stay at home please? Our federation tried to bunch up all pre 79' four strokes into one class, but was is the point of racing a 500/4 against a Z1? Luckily they retired the idea even if it's only 6 riders in 500 now but who still love their bikes and want to race.

From what I see in other vintage championship rounds in Europe, like alpe-adria or the german vintage guys that came this year to italy for a round, it's the same situation, numbers constantly declining, only the newer classes like early nineties SBK and SSP600 having reasonable numbers. Not exactly vintage though...
I think that it's only the UK that stands out in having such big grids for each class, not to mention so many guys running G50/Manxes like in Lansdowne series.

[simon#42]

there has always been more racing here than anywhere else , not sure why . but because there were so many people racing in the 70`s and 80´s there are plenty who still want to race there old bikes .
i had thought that if you got rid of a few classes the other classes would improve . to be honest i had not considered that people like to win trophies to help with there low esteem problems !