Author Topic: New bars, tank contact  (Read 2904 times)

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Offline mgzych

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New bars, tank contact
« on: March 16, 2015, 07:15:48 AM »
I installed my new Norman Hyde M bars on my '75 CB550F yesterday. Thrilled with the look and riding position, but not the fact that the right side controls contact the tank before full right steering stop.  (No problem at full left steer when the bike's on its side stand, thankfully.)

It's the rigid throttle cable tubes that protrude from bottom of the throttle housing that are the culprit.  I can't rotate them any further toward the front if the bike without interfering with the brake lever.

I've read about drilling and tapping the forged steering stops to use a screw to adjust the stop. But I'm a little hesitant to do that. Has anyone had any luck with any other solutions?  Thanks.

Offline flybox1

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 07:34:09 AM »
I have NH Mbars as well.
I had my welder add some meat to the steering stops before they were painted.  Works great.
Some have used the putty-type JB weld to make the stop larger.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 07:54:44 AM »
Hmmm.  JB Weld is interesting. I'm in experimenting mode now. If I swap back to taller bars and want to restore the full steering range, can JB Weld be "chipped" off again?

Offline flybox1

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 08:11:53 AM »
im sure with a light tap from a hammer it'll come right off ;D
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline Powderman

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 03:50:08 PM »
If it's installed properly a whack of the hammer should not remove it. It can be ground or sanded off just like bond.
If you drill and tap the stops to put bolts in you can always fill them in later with the JB Weld. This way gives you easy adjustment if needed.

Offline ekpent

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 05:46:04 PM »
Or a big hammer in the side of the tank- little hillbilly style  :D

Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2015, 09:29:26 AM »
Ok.  So besides tank contact, I've run into some other issues with the M bars, namely available straight grip segment for grips and controls (small issue) and brake banjo fitting conflict with stock instruments and brake line routing.

I'm reconsidering what was originally my 2nd choice to the M bars: superbike or euro bars.  But I can't quite understand what makes these two different from one another. Can anyone help me understand the differences between superbike vs euro, versions from both Bikemaster and Emgo?

Thanks.

Offline flybox1

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 09:34:46 AM »
you shouldnt have any space issues with mounting controls, new or aftermarket on the M-bars.  I dont.
Post up a picture of what youre running into...
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

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Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 09:45:32 AM »
Not near the bike right now, flybox1, but the space issue is slight. The stock throttle control, and the writings protruding from it (I didn't drill the bars to route internally) force the brake mount into the first bend slightly, which causes the lever to draw in not quite parallel to the bar.  I can't cheat the throttle tube off the end because I'm using bar end mirrors and there's barely enough room for the grip on the existing throttle tube.  I guess I could trim the throttle tube and and grips or try to find shorter ones, but that's staring to sound a little hackish.

Do you have stock brake lever and master cyl  and gauges on yours?  How did you manage the brake line/banjo fitting on yours?



Offline flybox1

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 10:16:31 AM »
I too run the wires outside the bar, and have bar end mirrors. Brake lever lines up w grip...
No mirror in this pic as i switched to smaller round mirrors, but i'm still running this setup w the end mirror.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 01:43:59 PM »
Hmmm. Looks like you have ample clearance between banjo bolt and tach and some bar to go before you get to the bend with the brake clamp.  Your throttle tube isn't overhanging the end of the bar?  And you haven't trimmed it and used shorter grips?  Interesting indeed. I'll have to study this picture against my bike when I get home!

Btw, very nice white/silver scheme!

Offline flybox1

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 01:51:00 PM »
Grips and throttle sleeve are installed as they should be and not shortened in any way.
thx.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2015, 02:00:51 PM »
How do you route your brake line?  Does it run in between the gauges and top tree?  Or outside the tree, around the front of the right fork leg, but behind the headlight bracket?  Or outside all of that?

Do you still have the fitting with the brake light switch in the lower tree, or do run straight to the caliper?

Offline flybox1

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2015, 02:31:59 PM »
My brake line, which I now have 2 of (dual discs) run between the headlight ears, and go straight down behind the lower tree to the calipers. 
My switch is @ the master cylinder.
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2015, 08:53:01 PM »
Flybox1, here's a photo of my setup.  Note how the clamp for the brake lever has crept onto the bend in the bar, and that the boot for the banjo bolt actually tucks just forward of the tach bracket.  Also, I've had to maintain a little space between the brake clamp and the throttle switch housing to allow the wires to exit without getting too chafed.  How did you get yours tight?  Any more thoughts on my dilemma?  I'm just not seeing whatever it is that's causing me the problem.

Mark

Offline scottly

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 09:01:15 PM »
Looks like Fly's grips are shorter than yours, and your master cylinder appears to be rotated forward a bunch, as the reservoir looks to be far from level. 
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2015, 09:38:02 PM »
I'd agree my MC is rotated further forward. That's where it ended up when the brake lever fell to Hans nicely. But I'm not sure it would matter with Fly's setup--look at the space between his banjo and tach.

His grip might be shorter. But that would only matter if he trimmed the throttle tube down to match, right?

Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2015, 09:39:19 PM »
...fell to HAND nicely.

Offline scottly

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2015, 09:56:37 PM »
Fly's banjo is about 180 degrees from yours? There are two different "standard" grip lengths; I'm using the shorter style, but nothing on my bike is "stock". ;)
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2015, 06:53:43 AM »
Yeah, you know I looked at the brake line routing again last night and could probably flip the banjo over and run the brake line straight down, outside the headlight ear, and beneath/behind the headlight to the brake light switch fitting on the lower triple clamp. That could solve the routing issue.

You may be onto something with grip length.  We may both have non-modified grips and throttle tubes but at varying "stock" lengths. My grips measure just a hair over 5" long outside to outside.

Flybox1, any chance you'd take a tape to yours and report back?

I appreciate all the suggestions from you guys who have been down this road before. I know a lot of this seems basic, but it's all new to me. Thanks!

Offline flybox1

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2015, 07:10:29 AM »
three things i notice.
1. there is something protruding from the end of your grip....what is it?  My grip fits flush to the end of the bar.
2. whats the fat rubber ring between the grip and the control?  maybe about 1/4" thick
3. there is too much space between the control, and the MC clam.  snug them up.


looking at this more....if #1&2 are un-removable parts of your grips, you might fix the whole issue with new OURY with less extra stuff on either end.

Unfortunately i cannot take a fresh picture as my bike is disassembled for a bottom end rebuild.  I can however measure my grips if needed...
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

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Offline Stev-o

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2015, 07:17:21 AM »

2. whats the fat rubber ring between the grip and the control?  maybe about 1/4" thick

That is part of the grip, I have Progrips too.  Could be shortened if that would make a difference.

I also thought the MC was rotated too far forward.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline flybox1

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2015, 07:33:22 AM »

2. whats the fat rubber ring between the grip and the control?  maybe about 1/4" thick

That is part of the grip, I have Progrips too.  Could be shortened if that would make a difference.

I also thought the MC was rotated too far forward.
Ya....I think the progrips are the issue here  :-\  they take up too much space and dont allow tight stacking.
The MC needs to be rotated to fit and easy finger reach.  That position might be most comfortable for him.
These bars do put you pretty far forward.   His brake line sure needs to be rotated downward  ;D
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline flybox1

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2015, 07:43:50 AM »
Here's the setup from a different angle.... just barely 1-2mm between the control and the MC clamp.
You might be able to free up some room if you make the cutout from the wires exiting your control a little deeper so they can go UNDER the MC clamp.  Snug them together.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 07:45:44 AM by flybox1 »
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline mgzych

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Re: New bars, tank contact
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2015, 08:25:53 AM »
Fly's banjo is about 180 degrees from yours? There are two different "standard" grip lengths; I'm using the shorter style, but nothing on my bike is "stock". ;)

Scottly, how long are your "shorter style" grips?  What kind are they?

three things i notice.
1. there is something protruding from the end of your grip....what is it?  My grip fits flush to the end of the bar.
2. whats the fat rubber ring between the grip and the control?  maybe about 1/4" thick
3. there is too much space between the control, and the MC clam.  snug them up.


looking at this more....if #1&2 are un-removable parts of your grips, you might fix the whole issue with new OURY with less extra stuff on either end.

Unfortunately i cannot take a fresh picture as my bike is disassembled for a bottom end rebuild.  I can however measure my grips if needed...

Flybox1,

1.  The black piece beyond the end of the grip is connected to the Napoleon bar end mirror.  It is tight to the bar end, and the grip, therefore, is also flush to the bar end, since it contacts this part of the mirror.  (The end of my throttle tube is about 1/16" shy of the end of the bar to that it doesn't bind against that part of the mirror.)

2.  You're looking at one of two things.  The "flange" on the grip is rather thick rubber, but it's factored into the ~5" length of the grip I measured.  Between that and the control housing is another foam/neoprene(?) disk, which I presume is designed to prevent friction between the grip and the housing.  Not sure if it's necessary, but another thing I'm dealing with is "stiction" in the throttle--not easy to turn and doesn't spring back readily.  Thought it might help.  I'm not sure OURY grips would help since the 5" dimensions are the same, no?

3.  Maybe I'll try filing away at the control housing to allow the wires to exit more downward as you suggested in your last post.


2. whats the fat rubber ring between the grip and the control?  maybe about 1/4" thick

That is part of the grip, I have Progrips too.  Could be shortened if that would make a difference.

I also thought the MC was rotated too far forward.
Ya....I think the progrips are the issue here  :-\  they take up too much space and dont allow tight stacking.
The MC needs to be rotated to fit and easy finger reach.  That position might be most comfortable for him.
These bars do put you pretty far forward.   His brake line sure needs to be rotated downward  ;D

Steve-o, by shorten I presume you mean carve it off, leaving the smaller, thinner flange behind?  Even so, I'd still have to trim the throttle tube, too, to make any difference in the control spacing, right?  Or am I missing something?

Flybox1, I'm noticing in that last picture that your master cylinder, brake lever is different from mine, at least at the part of the casting into which the banjo bolt screws.  Mine is longer, probably by 3/8" to 1/2".  That certainly explains, at least in part, the better clearance you have from your gauges.  I wonder if other parts of the MC/brake clamp assembly are different as well, such that the clamp is slightly more removed from the end where the bar curves.  Is that the original MC for that '78 750K?  I might try to look them up to compare.  Not that it would help my situation, but at least I'd feel fulfilled knowing "why." ;D