Author Topic: 1976 cb750f cutch problems  (Read 1737 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline livhrddiefst

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
1976 cb750f cutch problems
« on: April 04, 2015, 02:50:21 pm »
Morning everyone.  Where to start. My name is ryan ive been working on mechanical things as long as i can remeber and recently the last couple years stsrted on motorcycles. This forum has been very helpful the last year or so and I greatly appreciate everyone's input and expertise about all the random problems I've encountered. I really should have made an account long agone but it always seemed like my answers were found in old threads so I was kinda lazy about it. But nowith that I have spent a good week or so sifting through old pages and diagrams and such with no end in sight I decided to reach out and ask for some help before I go crazy. (And please be gentle and forgive any typos or Grammer errors because I am doing this from a phone)

Little back story to all of this. Last year I had bought 4 motorcycles from a gentleman cleaning out his garage. (3 1976 cb750's and 1 1976 cb550) and a few boxes of miscellaneous parts. After getting rid of 2 of the 750's I put some money into the 550 to finish the previous owners cafe project and using what I had learned from here, low and behold I had my first motorcycle on the road. Instantly loved it and wanted more.

After about 7 months I started to realize that I was a little big for a 550 so I decided to move onto the last bike I had with papers and thats a 1976 cb750f. unfortunately the frame was not in very good shape but the motor looked to be doing better. After a long debate and seeing how many parts I was truly lacking I decided it would be best to salvage what I could and try my luck with a new hard tail and rebuild her from there. but as we all know nothing is cheap these days and ended up having to sell the 550 to fund the new project.

A few months into it and everything was going great. finally had something to look at in the garage that resembled a new idea and thought I could finally see the end....well I thought I could anyways. So last week I finally get her started. Everything sounded good and was functioning properly except I couldn't get the clutch to work no matter what I did. And that's about as much good news as this story has in it now.

So This is where I'm really hoping someone in this community can help me. so ive read about rocking the engine, warming it up and trying the same. I've removed and cleaned the entire clutch and basket. Along with adjusting everything as per specs in the manual. 

Now here's the funny thing. The clutch has 7 fiber plates and 6 steeel ones. But also had 2 brass looking plates stuffed in there also. One at the very front. And one at the very back. I cant find any info that these should eve exist in this clutch.  Furthermore with or without those 2 plates installed, the clutch can spin freely inside the basket up until the point i tighten down the nut on the outer plate. As soon as it gets tight it's almost as if everything is bound together and can only function as one. No matter what adjustment on the cable or outer plate adjustment it will never release. The clutch lever has tension. Not too tight or anything like that. It DOES feel like it's functioning as it should. I just can't get the clutch to release. After looking at numerous diagrams and websites I'm assuming I'm missing a part or two on the clutch but I can't for the life of me find said parts anywhere or even if that's what I really need. What I've noticed is the tabbed washer and circlip in most pictures I've seen are nowhere to be found. I'm chalking that up to the previous owner. But I'm not sure if I even have the right parts after all of this.

I can take pictures of whatever is needed. And I am more than willing to answer any questions. Just lemme know. I really appreciate this community and hope someone can help.  I just wanna ride again! Lol. Thanks to anyone in advance and hope to hear fromy you guys soon.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 02:52:41 pm by livhrddiefst »

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,610
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 10:19:07 pm »
Well, my guess would be:
first, the early 750F uses 6 friction plates and 5 steel, with a 6th double-steel plate that had tiny springs between the steel plates. This was often replaced with the extra-thick Gold Wing GL1000 "Clutch Plate B" (still available) because the rivets holding these 2 steel plates together could get loose, letting the clutch rattle like mad.

It looks like someone tried to mimic the spacing caused by this double-steel plate with some copper (brass?) plates instead. But, it also sounds as if there are too many friction (cork) plates, too. There is often confusion about this, as the 1976 bikes changed from the 1972-1975 versions which DID have 7 cork and 6 steel plates. The early "F" was a slightly different design. The top plate is also a special one, with slant-cut cork blocks on it and wider tabs at the outside edge (you should notice the clutch basket has slightly larger slots for this top plate).

If the incorrect number of plates is used, one of 3 things will happen:
1. If not enough thickness for the whole stack, the clutch will slip, or may not engage at all when tightened up. This happens when modern, similar-looking, but too thin, cork plates get used. The superbikes use the exact same SHAPE as our plates, but they are only 0.132" thick new, and ours are supposed to be 0.141" thick (they are worn out at 0.136" thickness). Someone may have found themselves in this situation and tried to 'fix' it with those brass plates?
2. If too many plates, or too much thickness, the stack will bind the springs and the lifter cannot separate the plates. Keep in mind this is a wet clutch, so when you assemble it you MUST dip each plate in oil before installing, or they will NEVER break loose to slip when disengaged. They will continue to be wetted when the oil pump starts up, being oiled by the hollow mainshaft.
3. If the stack is too thick and the hub is the 1972-1975 type, the top plate may crack when the screws are tightened down. This happens more than we would like...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline livhrddiefst

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 12:10:14 pm »
Hello. Thanks for your response.
It is a 76f and the frame number is 20th and I belive that makes it an f2? I'm not sure what that entails for the clutch. There's so many different options when I look it up. It's easy to get lost in the info. The clutch pack does seem to have a thicker metal plate or two smaller ones riveted together  I'll include a pic of the side view without the brass plates in the pack. Is there a way to find out EXACTLY what clutch and parts inside I need for the basket that I have? I don't wanto to cheap out on it at all. Plus after looking at me diagrams I've decided I'm missing the circlip that holds the rear basket in place along with the tabbed washer in front of it. Both of which Seem impossible to track down as they are apparently discontinued.  Not sure what to do there either.....  I'm including another picture of one of the friction plates as to see if that's the complete wrong thing the guy that had it beforehand seemed to gum up. And yeaaa I've also fallen victim to snapping a tab off the top plate while playing around.

So I guess I'm looking for the right clutch, new springs, circlip, tabbed washer, and top plate. all for a 76 750f2 . I started getting the feeling I'm in over my head. It's got me worried that I won't be able to find these part. Any info or leads from you are greatly appreciated. I just wanna get back on the road but it seems so far away now. Thanks again in advance and I hope to hear from you soon. 

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,205
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 12:37:30 pm »
Hey man welcome to the forum. First I will clear a little confusion for ya on the F model 750's.


1975 was the first year of the F.
1975 CB750 F0
1976 CB750 F1
1977 CB750 F2
1978 CB750 F3


If yours is a 1976 F its the F1 model. As for the clutch and plates you can buy all that stuff new from just about any Honda dealership online but this one in particular is known for the best prices.


South Bound Honda


Its been agreed upon with some of the racers on this forum that the best clutch is in fact the OEM Honda clutch with OEM springs on a stock engine. If you hot rod your motor throw in a set of Barnett heavy duty springs. You could also go with an A.P.E. racing or Cycle X clutch kit. I think the Cycle X clutch is the least expensive and would probably work just fine. The Barnett clutch kits have been known to clog oil pumps so stay away from those.


As for the circlip hopefully this thread will help you get one or Ebay. The tabbed washer is still available new from Honda. Hope this helps.



Offline eastyork1977

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 128
  • Tuning and building in the Great White North
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 03:39:34 pm »
Get a proper castellated spanner or socket.
I just sold an original OEM HM CB750 clutch nut hub spanner, I use the motion pro one, its smaller.
Don't chisel and hammer that hub nut!
'73 CB350G
'75 CB400F
'77 CB550K3 "Swayze"
'78 CB550K Stock
'78 CB750F2 Stock-ish

"take a peak." - Don Cherry

"If I can bounce a wrench off a tyre and it hits you, you're standing too close."

Offline livhrddiefst

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 06:22:42 pm »
Hey man welcome to the forum. First I will clear a little confusion for ya on the F model 750's.


1975 was the first year of the F.
1975 CB750 F0
1976 CB750 F1
1977 CB750 F2
1978 CB750 F3


If yours is a 1976 F its the F1 model. As for the clutch and plates you can buy all that stuff new from just about any Honda dealership online but this one in particular is known for the best prices.


South Bound Honda


Its been agreed upon with some of the racers on this forum that the best clutch is in fact the OEM Honda clutch with OEM springs on a stock engine. If you hot rod your motor throw in a set of Barnett heavy duty springs. You could also go with an A.P.E. racing or Cycle X clutch kit. I think the Cycle X clutch is the least expensive and would probably work just fine. The Barnett clutch kits have been known to clog oil pumps so stay away from those.


As for the circlip hopefully this thread will help you get one or Ebay. The tabbed washer is still available new from Honda. Hope this helps.





Awesome thanks for clearing that up for me. I was just going off the frame Number for the info I could find. I hadn't really planned on hot rodding the moTor. At least not yet. Lol. Just trying to ride again but having these hide clutch issues is killing Me. So good news is most stuff I can find. Bad news is important stuff I can't find right? Am I correct that the circlip was made for bikes and used in different scenarios? I found them for a transmission. Same part number but different bike and use obviously. But the washer I can't find at all. Everything says discontinued. For my bike is it the thicker washer or the thinnr?

Offline livhrddiefst

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 06:25:00 pm »
Get a proper castellated spanner or socket.
I just sold an original OEM HM CB750 clutch nut hub spanner, I use the motion pro one, its smaller.
Don't chisel and hammer that hub nut!

Haha. It's funny you called me out on that. I only chiseled it because I had a newer one coming in the mail already. I was gonna try to use a socket cut down but haven't gotten to it yet. Just worried about finding these pieces that seem so elusive.

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,205
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 07:05:28 pm »
From that parts fiche that I attached what #'s do you need? 12 & 15?

Figure out exactly what you need and post a wanted ad in the parts wanted section with all these details. I am confident you can get what you need from one of the members on here.

Offline brandEn

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,205
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 07:30:26 pm »

Offline livhrddiefst

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 10:41:11 pm »
From that parts fiche that I attached what #'s do you need? 12 & 15?

Figure out exactly what you need and post a wanted ad in the parts wanted section with all these details. I am confident you can get what you need from one of the members on here.

Well Out of that picture I need #13, #15, and #8 cause I cracked it of course. But I don't think my springs are all the same so those too. I do have #12 though.  I just need a whole new assembly that's the right one pretty much  but I definitely need 13 and 15 for sure 

I looked at the eBay link you sent also. I had to message the guy to see if it had #13. I'm waiting for a response. But it's late and work tomorrow. So after that I'll put some more research into it. Hopefully he has that part or maybe be able to find someone on here with an extra. Thank you for the info so far though.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 07:47:41 am by livhrddiefst »

Offline eastyork1977

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 128
  • Tuning and building in the Great White North
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2015, 06:20:47 am »
From that parts fiche that I attached what #'s do you need? 12 & 15?

Figure out exactly what you need and post a wanted ad in the parts wanted section with all these details. I am confident you can get what you need from one of the members on here.

CHISEL AND HAMMER NOOO! ha, I kid.

I have extra hub nuts if you need 'em. Those motion pro castellated spanners are like 10 bucks, most cycle shops can order them, ebay also has 'em.

If you do get some survivor steel plates, just make sure you de-glaze them, makes a big difference, I don't know if anyone chimed in with that tip.

Also, the steel plates do have a rough edge side and a round edge side. They all must be installed facing the same way.

The pressure plate also fits in 4 ways but only 1 way works. Sometimes this is trial and error if you can't see the difference in the plate threads.

Cheers

'73 CB350G
'75 CB400F
'77 CB550K3 "Swayze"
'78 CB550K Stock
'78 CB750F2 Stock-ish

"take a peak." - Don Cherry

"If I can bounce a wrench off a tyre and it hits you, you're standing too close."

Offline livhrddiefst

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2015, 01:16:18 pm »
From that parts fiche that I attached what #'s do you need? 12 & 15?

Figure out exactly what you need and post a wanted ad in the parts wanted section with all these details. I am confident you can get what you need from one of the members on here.

Haha I know. The thought crossed my mind to not but being impatient got the best of me. I think I'm going to look into making one or just buying one as to not struggle with it. Thanks for the suggestion on de-glazing. Hadn't thought of that. 

That pressure plate only fits 1 way? How do you know which way is right then.

CHISEL AND HAMMER NOOO! ha, I kid.

I have extra hub nuts if you need 'em. Those motion pro castellated spanners are like 10 bucks, most cycle shops can order them, ebay also has 'em.

If you do get some survivor steel plates, just make sure you de-glaze them, makes a big difference, I don't know if anyone chimed in with that tip.

Also, the steel plates do have a rough edge side and a round edge side. They all must be installed facing the same way.

The pressure plate also fits in 4 ways but only 1 way works. Sometimes this is trial and error if you can't see the difference in the plate threads.

Cheers



Offline eastyork1977

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 128
  • Tuning and building in the Great White North
Re: 1976 cb750f cutch problems
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 10:28:00 am »
You have to really pay attention and observe its design and how it fits back in the basket.

Otherwise, you can get lucky the first try, or you have to try 3 times before you get it.  You won't find out it doesn't work until you have the clutch all back together because it fits 4 ways but only works 1 way.

4 threads, 4 positions, 1 is right.
'73 CB350G
'75 CB400F
'77 CB550K3 "Swayze"
'78 CB550K Stock
'78 CB750F2 Stock-ish

"take a peak." - Don Cherry

"If I can bounce a wrench off a tyre and it hits you, you're standing too close."