Topic: Opening up the sides on a '78 cb550...questions

[bookah]

I'm currently in the dilemma of whether to undertake the project of opening up the sides and relocating the wiring/battery on my 1978 cb550. I have a few questions, and please direct me to an appropriate thread if I'm asking a questions that has already been sufficiently asked/answered.

Can the original wiring harness be used, or do I need to create a new one? I intend on getting the reg/rect combo, small lith battery, and eliminating the starter. All other electrical functions would remain in place such as turn signals. If I can use the original harness, does anyone have a list of the wires/extenders/parts I would need in order to move the battery and other components? Do people sell aftermarket custom wiring harnesses, or would I be better of just doing it myself?

How long can I expect the bike to be in the garage for?

And lastly, if I pussy out, where can I pick up those rad mesh side covers that I see every once in awhile on this forum?

[calj737]

You don't need to remove the starter just to not use it. If you do, there you need a plug machined to block the orifice into the cases. If you want, simply remove the wiring to the solenoid and change your handlebar switches.

You don't indicate where you want to relocate your electronics to, so there's no way to list what you need. Changing to a modern reg/rec usually provides an opportunity for some clean up and simplification of the stock harness. You're better off re-using the stock harness and "extend" the wiring to a new location. Then a later owner can track what you've done to troubleshoot.

If you want to be super clean, super simple, and flexible with oyur electronics, spend some dough on a MotoGadget m-unit, m-button and m-lock. Eliminates the key switch (RFID), eliminates the main harness altogether, and eliminates the relays needed on your bike. The m-unit is smaller than a pack of cigarettes, has all your fueses, relays, and circuitry. The m-button installs at handlebars, every control wire solders to it, then a single wire plugs into the m-unit. The m-button is half the size of your thumb and neatly installs in the headlight bucket behind the lamp. The m-lock is a fob reader for keyless ignition. Step up and do it right and save the modifications to the stock harness.

Time to complete? Depends entirely upon your skill level. MotoGadget install, 8 hours if you have all the wiring, connectors, and sheathing ahead of time.

[bookah]

You don't need to remove the starter just to not use it. If you do, there you need a plug machined to block the orifice into the cases. If you want, simply remove the wiring to the solenoid and change your handlebar switches.

You don't indicate where you want to relocate your electronics to, so there's no way to list what you need. Changing to a modern reg/rec usually provides an opportunity for some clean up and simplification of the stock harness. You're better off re-using the stock harness and "extend" the wiring to a new location. Then a later owner can track what you've done to troubleshoot.

If you want to be super clean, super simple, and flexible with oyur electronics, spend some dough on a MotoGadget m-unit, m-button and m-lock. Eliminates the key switch (RFID), eliminates the main harness altogether, and eliminates the relays needed on your bike. The m-unit is smaller than a pack of cigarettes, has all your fueses, relays, and circuitry. The m-button installs at handlebars, every control wire solders to it, then a single wire plugs into the m-unit. The m-button is half the size of your thumb and neatly installs in the headlight bucket behind the lamp. The m-lock is a fob reader for keyless ignition. Step up and do it right and save the modifications to the stock harness.

Time to complete? Depends entirely upon your skill level. MotoGadget install, 8 hours if you have all the wiring, connectors, and sheathing ahead of time.

Thanks for this insight. I was looking at building a custom tray under the seat for everything including a 4 cell antigravity battery (kick only). The motogadget install sounds tempting, but its fully outside of my current budget for this project. The harness on this bike is in great shape. I think it would be as simple as crimping some extenders and moving everything into the new tray.

I am hoping to hear from someone who has done such a project and can direct me to everything I'll need in one go, such as "1 foot of this, 2 feet of that, a few of these connectors, etc." Or am I dreaming?

EDIT: If nobody has this info, I'll eventually throw together a step by step visual guide for cb550's with lengths of wire etc.

[Maurice]

Small world, I see you found your way here

You can do that gradually: start with removing the starter relay, run thinner wires to battery (no need for heavy gauge wires without a starter), move reg/rect out of the way, etc.

I did that on my XS650 and kept the original loom, but a lot of wires are unused now and eventually I put the side covers back on because it looks better with them. Which brings me to: if you want to remove the side covers, be ready to cut off the tabs at the frame and that is hard to undo. Think twice...

Exhibit A (not me, from this thread):



Then again (still not me, thread here)...



Lots more info on these forums.

[bookah]

Small world, I see you found your way here

You can do that gradually: start with removing the starter relay, run thinner wires to battery (no need for heavy gauge wires without a starter), move reg/rect out of the way, etc.

I did that on my XS650 and kept the original loom, but a lot of wires are unused now and eventually I put the side covers back on because it looks better with them. Which brings me to: if you want to remove the side covers, be ready to cut off the tabs at the frame and that is hard to undo. Think twice...

Lots more info on these forums.

Hey!! Haha yes, i'm already quite addicted to the forums. reading as much as I can and trying not to bite off more than I can chew. I totally get the permanency of chopping off the tabs.

God I wish there was just a kit to buy for this conversion. I've read that the 4 cell antigravity is enough for a kick only 550, are there any other batteries I should look into? I will be making my own tray to fit under the seat, and will be ditching the cafe seat and going with a flat brat (so no bubble battery storage).

I've had it in my mind that after I ditch the old rect/reg and get the combo unit and clean up the wiring, it should all fit based on a few pictures I've seen floating the web. I am trying to keep this mod on a budget so the wife doesn't hate me too much 

I just have so much I want to do atheistically without doing a full tear down since she runs great as is.

Edit: and that second picture - drool.  exactly what I am going for as the overall model look,

[calj737]

Just an FYI - yes, with a kick only bike, your battery doesn't need to be as potent in cranking amps, but the underlying charging system isn't changing. Meaning, the need for AmpHour rating hasn't changed. These bikes don't create surplus voltage from the stator until the motor is running above 2500RPMs. So until you get there, you're running off the battery.

A 4 cell AG battery is very short on AmpHrs. You can reduce the draw of the stock system by using an LED bulb for the headlight, indicators, tail light and gauges. All things to think hard about when you migrate to an ultra small battery.

It also depends upon your use of the bike. If it's a bar hopper, you're destined for a dead battery. Stop and go traffic, dead battery. Cruising and rural riding, probably fine. Keep the RPMs wound up when riding, even in the city. Target 4-6k RPMs for shifting and you'll do better.

[bookah]

Just an FYI - yes, with a kick only bike, your battery doesn't need to be as potent in cranking amps, but the underlying charging system isn't changing. Meaning, the need for AmpHour rating hasn't changed. These bikes don't create surplus voltage from the stator until the motor is running above 2500RPMs. So until you get there, you're running off the battery.

A 4 cell AG battery is very short on AmpHrs. You can reduce the draw of the stock system by using an LED bulb for the headlight, indicators, tail light and gauges. All things to think hard about when you migrate to an ultra small battery.

It also depends upon your use of the bike. If it's a bar hopper, you're destined for a dead battery. Stop and go traffic, dead battery. Cruising and rural riding, probably fine. Keep the RPMs wound up when riding, even in the city. Target 4-6k RPMs for shifting and you'll do better.

That was helpful. Not a bar hopper, but my daily commuter on sidestreets. With that in mind perhaps I should go larger then?

[calj737]

Please don't misunderstand this: what you need to do is understand what's happening so you can make the right decision. I'm not saying the AG 4 won't work; but you need to understand its limits and the influence of the bike's components drawing on the voltage while you ride.

The highest draws are from your stock headlight, and if you've changed from points to electronic ignition. If you've done the latter (Dyna style) then you'd be well served to get an H4 LED bulb for your headlight. It draws much less voltage and produces same or better light.

If your bulb and igntion are stock, then ride in the upper RPM band (your bike will like you more anyway  ) and you should be fine. The electric starter won't kill you, if you use the AG but follow it up with spirited revving for some amount of time.

I use Shorai LiFe type batteries. They're small, 14Ah units, and vibration proof. So they can be used in a variety of locations and orientations. They prefer to use the Shorai charger, but a standard charger is acceptable also.

Hope this helps (too)

[bookah]

Please don't misunderstand this: what you need to do is understand what's happening so you can make the right decision. I'm not saying the AG 4 won't work; but you need to understand its limits and the influence of the bike's components drawing on the voltage while you ride.

The highest draws are from your stock headlight, and if you've changed from points to electronic ignition. If you've done the latter (Dyna style) then you'd be well served to get an H4 LED bulb for your headlight. It draws much less voltage and produces same or better light.

If your bulb and igntion are stock, then ride in the upper RPM band (your bike will like you more anyway  ) and you should be fine. The electric starter won't kill you, if you use the AG but follow it up with spirited revving for some amount of time.

I use Shorai LiFe type batteries. They're small, 14Ah units, and vibration proof. So they can be used in a variety of locations and orientations. They prefer to use the Shorai charger, but a standard charger is acceptable also.

Hope this helps (too)

Everything helps! I'm drinking everyone's words of wisdom here. If I do this, I want to do it right. 

Also, I just found this tray: http://www.tuffside.com/CB350-CB500-CB550-CB750-Electrical-Battery-box-p/grc-electric-box.htm

Although I doubt there is enough room in there for everything, but that is exactly what I had in mind building.

[Maurice]

If you want to try without breaking the bank, see this. Like a beer can, bit longer and square.

Heck, you can even zip-tie a spare somewhere in case it drains and it'll get you home. FWIW I've been using this for over a year and never been stranded, even with a failed rectifier once. Got me home, replaced it, didn't even charge the battery (these bikes stock points start with as low as 7V...) and been running since, even survived 3 months hiatus.

[bookah]

If you want to try without breaking the bank, see this. Like a beer can, bit longer and square.

Heck, you can even zip-tie a spare somewhere in case it drains and it'll get you home. FWIW I've been using this for over a year and never been stranded, even with a failed rectifier once. Got me home, replaced it, didn't even charge the battery (these bikes stock points start with as low as 7V...) and been running since, even survived 3 months hiatus.

Holy crap that is cheap. With that battery would I have to change to the rect/reg combo unit? Also what other electricals are you running?

[Maurice]

Yeah, that says a lot about me... LOL

This will run with your current reg/rect. I have stock halogen headlight (pulsates at red lights of course...) and points, LED taillight and regular blinkers.

But I have ditched the reg/rect for these (again, going to look like a cheap-ass):

Rectifier

Regulator

I like this combo as the output seems much better, and they seem reliable, been running over a season like that. Connections to the rectifier are straightforward, but regulator needs minor adaptations (cut off old connector at regulator and attach spades, I can give you the wire-by-wire correspondence).

[bookah]

Lol YES. you've taken something that was a ~$250 project and dropped it to around 100 bucks. I #$%*ing love it.

Also, with that battery about how long will I be able to idle before I drain it? I should note I live up in a canyon with neighbors I like. Currently I can just start the bike and coast down and out of the canyon. I would say I coast for about 3 mins total before I actually rev the engine up.

[Maurice]

Don't worry, you'll find many other ways to spend that money

3 mins. is plenty IMO, but you won't go anywhere without rev'ing, unless it's all downhill

[bookah]

Roger, I don't even have to take the bike out of neutral to get out of the canyon if I didn't want to haha.

[bookah]

So let's say I went with that battery, reg/rec, and am mounting under the seat in a custom pan OR in that pan I found earlier. Any idea the wires/connectors I'd need for extensions and in what amount? I have cutters/strippers/crimpers/heat gun already. I also have access to a disk grinder to remove tabs.

[calj737]

You won't need much wire. But do solder new connections and heat shrink the connectors to the wire for weatherproofing.

[nicks2319]

I did mine with stock harness, didn't extend anything. Oregon reg/rec combo, ballistic 8 cell, remove starter and solenoid.

[bookah]

Wow, no extensions huh? I love your old license plate box haha.

[nicks2319]

Wow, no extensions huh? I love your old license plate box haha.

Nope.

And yeah, you don't need to do anything fancy or make a "box". I just cut a straight piece from a license plate, bent one of the sides up, and bolted it on through existing frame holes.

[bookah]

Welp. Now I want to try this. You bolt both sides down? How much of it can you see from the side?

[nicks2319]

Yup, you can see both bolts in the first pic. Can't see it at all.

[bookah]

wow. So much cleaner than I had anticipated. I can skip that 45$ box altogether and go this route! Now to score a used plate haha.

[ChopSticks]

Just curious would all the things discussed here work for a '74 CB750? and the motogadget site suggested above is that the one from Germany?

[Retro Rocket]

Just curious would all the things discussed here work for a '74 CB750? and the motogadget site suggested above is that the one from Germany?

Yes, motogadget is the German site/company. Don't forget, on a 750 you also have the oil tank to consider, the 500/550 don't have one....