Topic: Progressive springs 1110 vs 1104

[edwardmorris]

So looks like another ebay fiasco brewing. I ordered a set of progressive springs for the front forks for my 750K2, which is part number 11-1110. Instead, the seller sent 11-1104 which is for 75+ and Fs. The box has the springs, two fender washers and two pieces of pvc pipe spacers. Trying to get them exchanged, now the seller is being dodgy. Long shot, but is it possible to make these work by adjusting the spacers?

[Stev-o]

The spacers are for setting preload, I did not use them on my K4. 

If you did not get what was listed, open a case against him.  eBay seems to side with the buyer.

[Davez134]

I don't know the differences between the kits, but as stated open a case if seller continues to be dodgy. Especially if you paid with paypal, you should be taken care of. For what it's worth, I cut down my spacers in my 11-1110 kit. They are made to be modified for each rider, so you may be able to make them work if you want.

[edwardmorris]

I heard back, their listing seems confusing, the title has 11-1110 on it, but the description says 110-1104, and apparently that is correct for all 69-82 750 models. The seller says they'll work but I'm not sure I trust that. I'll measure the length on these and see if someone with the correct ones can help me compare it...

[Davez134]

I just found some info for ya. Length, rate, and diameter are different. I think they CAN work, but I would try and get the ones ya ordered.



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[Stev-o]

I cut down my spacers in my 11-1110 kit.

Hey Dave - how did the handling change once the spacer was added?

[oldhatt45]

Ed,

In my build thread I did a measurement of my Original Honda Springs, my Original S&W springs and my New Progressive Springs (1104's).
The original posts are on page 5.  That said, here is part of one post where I measured the springs.

The ORIGINAL Honda Spring (R) single rate - 8,000 miles and 1 year of riding. = 18.625 inches
The S&W Spring (R) Progressive rate - 16,000 miles and 11 years of riding and then
             25 years just sitting in the garage still assembled. = 20.0X inches
The Brand new Progressive spring - 0 miles and 22mm shorter than the S&W spring. = 20.0X - 0.86 = 19.14 inches.

The 1110 springs appear to be longer free length (20.50) than the 1104 springs (19.12).  In the manual for the K6 it calls for the springs to be replaced when they sag to 18.11 inches and they give the nominal free length as 19.075 inches. 

To me it looks like the 1104 springs without the spacer would be OK from a "Honda Manual" perspective.  I will say that when I put my springs in using the spacer, it was a tussle.  There is just enough of me to push the spring down and turn the nut on.  LOL

Also, another thing to think about is the Spring Rate.  The 1104's are spec'd as 35/50 while the 1110's are spec'd as 30/40.  My old S&W springs had spring rates of 28/48.  Those spring rates worked well for me.  On the surface of it, it would sound to me like the 1110's are too light on the top end spring rate, but not sure. 

If it were me, I would probably stick with the 1104's, but that's me and what I am doing.

Hope this helps,

Charlie

[Davez134]

I cut down my spacers in my 11-1110 kit.

Hey Dave - how did the handling change once the spacer was added?

I am nowhere near a suspension expert, but to me the spacers made the front feel a little tighter and more predictable (hope that makes sense) Without them It seemed like I could push the front down too easily. If I remember right, I believe I took a little more than 1/3 of total length off each spacer. I weigh 175. 

[edwardmorris]

Thanks for the input fellas, I went through the manual but couldn't find a section on checking spring lengths (unless I'm just missing it?). The seller is convinced they'll work, but I think I'm just going to ask for the longer ones 1110. I just hope he doesn't throw a fit and do a proper exchange.

[oldhatt45]

Ed,

The spring length I quoted from the K6 manual for the original Honda Springs was on the  first couple of pages of the Suspension Section.
It gives normal length and serviceable limit size.

Just an FYI,

Charlie

[edwardmorris]

Those are the sections I checked, only has info on fluid volumes, that's it

[oldhatt45]

Ed,

Here is the section 11 - Steering and Front Suspension.  Not sure if this is for the K2, but, right now the best I can do.
Look at the second page.  "Free Length".

Charlie

[edwardmorris]

DUH! Right under my nose sorry I had skipped straight to the front suspension side heading. Thanks Charlie!

So it looks like for any reason should I end up stuck with these, they'll still be better than the old stockers 

[oldhatt45]

Ed,
This is just my thinking on the springs.
The S&W progressive rate springs that I had in my K6 forks were really nice.  They measured at 20.0X inches after 22,000 miles so I would guess they were a little longer to begin with.
The New Progressive brand progressive springs (1104's) measure out to 19.14 inches, then you add the spacer which is a little over an inch which takes you out to 20.14+ inches of spring with a little preload.
I would think that the 1110's at 20.50 inches with no preload would be a bear to get locked down into the tubes as number one. 
Number 2 the spring rates on the 1110's are a lot softer (30/40) than the 1104's (35/50) so bear that in mind as well.  That may be too soft a spring?? 
Number 3, the old S&W progressive rate springs had spring rates of 28/48 and felt great and the bike handled really well. 
To jack up the preload on the 1110's at 20.50 inches would be a real bear and I don't know if it could be done without superhuman strength.  LOL

Personally if given the choice for myself, I would go with the 1104's, because I think the spring rates will decrease over time and also give you the most adjustability in terms of preload.  Again, just my non educated opinion, but maybe some food for thought.

Charlie

[edwardmorris]

So just got off the phone with the seller, who insisted that his info comes from working with Progressive closely

Its hard to argue, now that I went through progressive's site and 11-1104 shows up as the correct one for the 750Ks. The 11-1110 apparently is for CBRs and GLs, neither of which I'm familiar with. I guess I'll be sticking with these for now.

[Davez134]

PM sent about this!