Topic: Ignition options for a big bore streetable dragibke

[HondaMan]

I'm still running the same two Dyna S units I brought in 2009.
The extra unit I brought as a spare is still sitting in my spares box unopened.

Cheers,
Brian

My Dyna S has been on my bike since 1998. The one on my old K model was on it since 1988. The one on my Kaw dragbike has been on there since 1995. Hmmm, no one in my circle of friends has ever expressed failure of their units.

I suppose i'll start to poll others i come across to see what their experiences have been.

The large number of Dyna S failures we have seen lately seemed to have started around 2007 or so. Before that, they were pretty reliable.

But, a caveat: both of mine (early 1990s unit and late 1980s unit) died in less than a season of riding, each. With OEM coils.

[Medyo Bastos]

i truly believe they had a batch with the plate flipped over.  i bought 3 sets at one time, and struggled with the first set longer than i care to admit.  one pickup was about 1/4" out of adjustment with no more room for adjustment.  i just about drilled new holes on it when i tried flipping the gotdam thing over and mounting both pickups on that side, and voila!  i called dyna tech support and told them what i found and they denied there could ever be this type of issue and assured me their quality control was second to none.  btw, the other 2 sets had the exact same issue!  second to none my @SS

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Love my Dyna III from the mid-eighties. Was going strong when I took it off to install a Dyna 2000. It will be installed on my next bike unless I decide to use that NOS Gerex instead.

[scottly]

The Dyna III had a very good rep, from what I've gathered. IIRC, it had a remote mounted box containing the sensitive electronics like the Gerex?

[Medyo Bastos]

i only posted my experience with them. i would not be so bitter towards them had tech support taken my call constructively.  i am in the need of a good reliable programmable ignition just like the rest of us...

[scottly]

Medyo, why do you need a "programmable" ignition?

[Medyo Bastos]

not so much programable, but rev limiting


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[HondaMan]

The Dyna III had a very good rep, from what I've gathered. IIRC, it had a remote mounted box containing the sensitive electronics like the Gerex?

It was actually their first response to the many Dyna S units that failed from their 3-ohm coils overheating them. In the 1970s through 1980s, they recommended NOT using the 3-ohm coils with the Dyna S because it was max current for the "S" triggers. The Dyna III came out as an add-on box, later as a whole set, that cooled off the triggers with these coils.

But, the first III failed, then the "S" that ran it. Then the 2nd "S". That was it, for me. (with Honda coils!)

[Don R]

  Wouldn't a non wasted spark system solve some power usage issues? Like an ARD drive turning a trigger wheel using a transistor ignition to fire coils on plugs?
 A friend had a cam drive magneto on a mini sprint with a sohc750. That was wild. He also had a dual drive that mounted where the points would go, it drove a vertex mag and a hilborn fuel pump.  I should have bought him out.

[Cpcracing]

Has anyone used the Cycle X Power Arc Ignitions that offer multi spark and optically triggered technology part number EL-012 Cycle x Programmed or the EL-013 Programmable ignitions with any success?

[FunJimmy]

Has anyone used the Cycle X Power Arc Ignitions that offer multi spark and optically triggered technology part number EL-012 Cycle x Programmed or the EL-013 Programmable ignitions with any success?

I've got the C5 multi spark (based on Power Arc) optical trigger ignition and love it.
Amazing ignition system.

[Cpcracing]

Fun jimmy, does your c5 ignition include a rev limiter?

[FunJimmy]

Fun jimmy, does your c5 ignition include a rev limiter?

it can. mine does.
rev limiter is completely programmable.

[HondaMan]

  Wouldn't a non wasted spark system solve some power usage issues? Like an ARD drive turning a trigger wheel using a transistor ignition to fire coils on plugs?
 A friend had a cam drive magneto on a mini sprint with a sohc750. That was wild. He also had a dual drive that mounted where the points would go, it drove a vertex mag and a hilborn fuel pump.  I should have bought him out.

The waste-spark system is the lowest-possible current that can run 4 cylinders without a distributor or magneto. Otherwise, there would be 3 coils drawing charge current all the time instead of just one at a time. The magneto would be the least current, but would require we find someplace to put all the coils? All the 4-cylinder bikes that I know, even the CDI-driven types, still have 2 coils.

[Cpcracing]

Is Fun jimmy the only forum member using a c5 or Power Arc style ignition? Are Power Arc dependable ignitions? What are the disadvantages of the Power Arc?

[Retro Rocket]

One of the Aussie members {Johno}bought a power arc system for his salt racer, the bike blew up twice, it ended up being a problem with the power arc ignition, its all documented in a thread in the Hipo section...

[HondaMan]

One of the Aussie members {Johno}bought a power arc system for his salt racer, the bike blew up twice, it ended up being a problem with the power arc ignition, its all documented in a thread in the Hipo section...

Yeow!

[Cpcracing]

So Retro Rocket and Hondaman, what do you recommend for the highest quality, most durable electronic ignition? I don't want to stay with points and I have heard that the Dyna products are burning up.

[Retro Rocket]

Dyna had problems but i think they have been resolved, they now have a different ignition plate. I have a dyna 2000 programmable ignition but haven't used it yet. If you don't want adjustable ignition curves there are a few options, Pamco, boyer brandsen, dyna, there's another one from Europe as well, if i find it i'll post it here...

[FunJimmy]

One of the Aussie members {Johno}bought a power arc system for his salt racer, the bike blew up twice, it ended up being a problem with the power arc ignition, its all documented in a thread in the Hipo section...

One or two documented failures doesn't make a product unreliable. If it did, why is anyone suggesting Dyna? There are always going to be failures from time to time. Even the tried and tried points fail periodically.

[Retro Rocket]

One of the Aussie members {Johno}bought a power arc system for his salt racer, the bike blew up twice, it ended up being a problem with the power arc ignition, its all documented in a thread in the Hipo section...

One or two documented failures doesn't make a product unreliable. If it did, why is anyone suggesting Dyna? There are always going to be failures from time to time. Even the tried and tried points fail periodically.

I beg to differ mate, Johno's destroyed 2 engines, I haven't heard of a dyna doing that...  In his correspondence it appeared that they haven't got their ignitions sorted properly yet.. His was the cyclex version i think...

Go through this thread and have a read...

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,109584.1175.html

[KayOne]

I Have two Powerarc systems. One on my 1979 CB750F. Works fantastic, use the max advance setup to pull hard to 9500. The system on the K1 ran "ragged" started OK but didn't feel smooth under power. Put the old point system back in and the bike runs awesome. My "theory is the phasing between 1-3 and 2-4 was out on the Powerarc unit on the old K.

[Retro Rocket]

The system on the K1 ran "ragged" started OK but didn't feel smooth under power. . My "theory is the phasing between 1-3 and 2-4 was out on the Powerarc unit on the old K.

Similar thing on the bike I was talking about, I think it destroyed number 2 piston twice....

[johno]

Hi Guys,
Re my engine failures;
With regard to the power arc system I have only experience with the 4 individual coil system sold as non wasted ignition system.
Based on comments from other members the dual coil wasted spark systems have provided reliable operation and have enjoyed success in competition so I am not making any comment on the dual coil system.

Any comment I make relates to the 4 individual coil system, I now have some experience with it but unfortunately it has been a frustrating and expensive journey for me, pride should see me want to make it work but I am not willing to risk another engine trying and so will use a more popular ignition on the new engine.

Re the problem it may be an electronic issue or software programming issue as the advance curves all lock in OK but the only cylinder that runs as set is number 1, number two is advanced, number 3 is radically retarded and number 4 mildly retarded.  For me its cheaper to put it in the bin and buy something else.   Life is short, gotta move on 
johno

[FunJimmy]

While a two time engine blow up is nothing to ignore, it does not, in my opinion determine the reliability or dependability of a product. If the ignition were solely to blame, sure, I'd probably not risk a third time. But of all the units ever sold by PowerArc, if 2 or 3 units went bad, that's an awfully good record of failure. Dynas have been off and on, and I've got them on some of my bikes and not had a problem. Points fail, condensers fail. Everything man-made fails.

I chose the C5 units based upon recommendation from elsewhere, and was further comforted by threads on this forum. My motor isn't a drag bike, but for a street 500, it's certainly at the upper end of performance. So programmable or selectable curves was mandatory.

I think the inherent Achilles heels in a 750 (cam tower, chain clearance at the sprocket, gasket leaks, oil pumps, etc) can all be pointed at as "failure prone areas" and yet how many continue to run and get rebuilt? A drag bike sees the utmost stress for an internal combustion engine. Demanding 100% performance for 8-12 seconds form anything will exact it's weakness on everything. possible Johno had 2 units from the same batch that weren't properly made. How does a manufacturer test and verify a part for an extreme sliver of a market? Don't know how to expect that. These units aren't new, and they aren't only used on our SOHCs, so a prone-to-fail reputation would certainly be well known if it were the rule.

But when I get mine installed and run it, I'll let you know personally whether I'm glad or sad I did.

Well said and my thoughts exactly. I don't know why but there seems to be a hidden agenda when it comes to Power Arc and C5. With the exception of HondaMan, Paul from C5 Ignitions was one of the most informative technical (vendor) contributors regarding ignition systems on this site but some just wanted to run him off. Bummer