Author Topic: Interesting kick starting procedure for ARD magnetos  (Read 1214 times)

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Offline gschuld

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Interesting kick starting procedure for ARD magnetos
« on: April 26, 2015, 03:55:41 pm »
There was a 7 part article in Cycle Rider magazine spanning seven issues from spring 1973 through spring 1974 called "Project: 750 Honda"

One section that I though was interesting was in part 4 regarding their experimenting with the ARD magneto.  One of the often stated drawbacks of the ARD magneto surrounds the kickback tendency as a result of the full time advanced timing.  I'd be interested to know if those who currently run ARD magnetos would be interested in giving the following starting procedure a try.

Cycle Rider, November 1973.  Bottom of page 72:

"Riding on the street with the mag meant the bike was a little harder to start.  The magneto does not offer an automatic advance that the stock ignition does.  As a result, the ignition is at full advance all the time.  The engine tends to kick back somewhat when starting hot or cold.

We found a good starting sequence was to chock the engine twice with the switch off, then with the switch off, kick it over twice more.  Generally, flicking the switch on for the fifth kick would fire the engine the "first" time.  It very seldom took more than two kicks.  Any deviation from this system would create problems.

Once the engine was warm we eliminated the chocking procedure and kicked the engine twice with the switch off before kicking it thought for real."


For reference, the bike was running a 1000cc motor built by RC Engineering, assembled by Byron Hines. 

reworked and balanced stock weight crank
heat treated factory rods with HD bolts
Ported head
RC 315 or 327 cam(it didn't say >:(), springs, retainers, etc
71mm 10.5:1 RC forged pistons
HD output shaft bearing
factory round top carbs, 130 main jets
ARD magneto
etc

FWIW, the bike ran 11.40s @ 122 on factory stock wheels/tires on an otherwise factory stock(500lb+) bike other than the Kerker 4 into 1 exhaust. NOT BAD!

George

Offline BPellerine

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Re: Interesting kick starting procedure for ARD magnetos
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2015, 05:36:15 pm »
George,my bike is running webers so I have to give a couple of pumps and kick it a couple of times until it tries to fire then one more squirt and it usually fires,no kickback ever not even the first time.when the bike is warm it is a 1 kick bike.I would have loved to have seen some of these bikes back in the day so we would know what is possible.when I asked about ards on here I got few replies so I did not have a lot to go on,I don't know why but these bikes seem to handle full advance,my old brit singles had manual retard and if not used the bike would kick back and it really hurt!!bill
1978 CB 750K ard and webers
another anfob

Offline dragracer

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Re: Interesting kick starting procedure for ARD magnetos
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2015, 05:40:01 pm »
I've got a Dyna S with MSD. Stock advancer, 1030cc and if you don't do everything exactly right, you will be rewarded with pain like you've never felt.

Offline gschuld

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Re: Interesting kick starting procedure for ARD magnetos
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2015, 05:52:55 pm »
BPellerine,

If I recall correctly, you are running the ARD Webber combination on basically a dead stock low compression 736 right?  I have a feeling that the situation would be at least somewhat different when kicking a 1000+cc motor at 10.5:1 compression along with a much bigger, longer duration cam like the RC 327.  I'm happy to have the feedback though.   

Dragracer has basically the whole deck stacked in his favor ignition wise, and he has a lot of experience with these hipo engines.  I share his concerns regarding the ARD...

George

Offline 754

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Re: Interesting kick starting procedure for ARD magnetos
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2015, 06:48:37 pm »
One question I have, is lots of overlap on some engines results in lowered cranking  pressure
Does this hold true on four cylinders as well.?
 Bill has an advantage. With the strong accelerator pumps. Same as priming..
So you have compression, fuelmixture in the hole, and then spark that occurs..at or near the right timing.. It should fire..
 Some bikes if you stop at bottom of kicker stroke will disengage foot pedal from motor in event it backfires.. But I think ours do not have that..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline BPellerine

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Re: Interesting kick starting procedure for ARD magnetos
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2015, 02:52:07 pm »
the way I look at it one more point in comp wont hurt it,dont know about cam issues but I am going to find out when I do my 10.5 836 with 315,I can kick an 836 easy and frank has done so for many years with 315 in 836,so is another 150cc going to make or brake the issue?franks aka dragracers bike is an animal in a good way made to go fast and only that.dont forget that you also have a button start,and the ard does not have to be at full advance you can back it off a bit might lose a little edge.bill
1978 CB 750K ard and webers
another anfob