Topic: My faith in humanity is restored for the moment at least....

[70CB750]

So you don't live in the states and think because you hear news in the liberal media that you know what is occurring here?

Yes, that´s Retro. Knows everything better and if facts don't support him, he will make them up. 

[Retro Rocket]

So you don't live in the states and think because you hear news in the liberal media that you know what is occurring here?

Yes, that´s Retro. Knows everything better and if facts don't support him, he will make them up. 

What a stupid statement Prokop, got anything useful to add...? Please feel free to point out what I made up genius...

[JWExperience]

You talk about cops gunning down unarmed civilians like these civilians are your mother and a total sweetheart that is doing nothing wrong. And also like it happens everyday. You don't know what goes on here and can't even begin to understand our use of force laws. Uses of force don't have to be reactionary, this is what people fail to understand.
How many of these shootings that you speak of resulted in a jury of YOUR peers finding the cops guilty. The reason for this is because when the facts come out and are explained logically through a grand jury hearing for example, regular citizens then understand why the officer responded the way they did and that usually results in a no bill.
Those FBI stats cover all homicides for a one year period. Just so you know, a officer involved shooting is a homicide so officer involved shootings would be included in those stats. Those stats are a good starting point anyways.
I don't assume much about you other than you know your #$%* about cb's and dick about law enforcement. It's funny to me the amount of people that will argue with me about crime, deadly force and gun laws.
If you were in New York I would offer you a ride along because I'm sure I could open your mind atleast to see both sides a little more clearly.
I've personally been involved in numerous situations where I could have taken a life and thankfully I have not had to. When you can say the same after having a gun pulled on you(walk a mile in my shoes), I'm sure your opinion could change slightly. I'll try to attach a picture of a tek 9 that was pulled on me while patrolling the west side of my city. Pretty scary when your a cop and your out gunned in your own city.
The majority of illegal gun I have recovered from gang members have been under the age of 16. Do you think any of the criminals I deal with care or know the gun laws... Nope, they're criminals on top of that, I have never arrested a gun owner with a permit because they are generally responsible people and abide by the laws. Gun laws are kinda oxymoronic that way.

[Retro Rocket]

The cop in Carolina has been charged with murder it hasn't finished in court, the New Orleans police were found guilty, i think one got 65 years for murder ,I'm not sure about the rest as they are still in court.  I've sent you a PM as  i'm not interested in discussing this with fools chiming in making stupid statements contrary to the discussion...

[JWExperience]

Part of my point is your bringing up a couple incidents over about a 12 year span. It's not epidemic like people think. Officers are human and everyone with perceive every threat different so mistakes can be made. It's certainly not at even close to an alarming rate

[70CB750]

Part of my point is your bringing up a couple incidents over about a 12 year span. It's not epidemic like people think. Officers are human and everyone with perceive every threat different so mistakes can be made. It's certainly not at even close to an alarming rate

You can't convince him, I am sure he believes Al Sharpton is an honest man, LOL.  The leftist US media says that US police is targeting blacks and shoots them at a whim and by golly, that's what it is 

But he can be amusing every so often.

[Retro Rocket]

Part of my point is your bringing up a couple incidents over about a 12 year span. It's not epidemic like people think. Officers are human and everyone with perceive every threat different so mistakes can be made. It's certainly not at even close to an alarming rate

You can't convince him, I am sure he believes Al Sharpton is an honest man, LOL.  The leftist US media says that US police is targeting blacks and shoots them at a whim and by golly, that's what it is 

But he can be amusing every so often.

You're so clever Prokop, you rednecks just love making everything you disagree with a lefty problem, its kinda sad really......

[JWExperience]

It is hard to argue with people that don't live or work in these areas and they don't realize how these people we deal with act day in and day out. Then they have the audacity to judge an officer who has to make a decision and react in tenth a of a second. Most people get minutes or hours to make major decisions at work, let alone life and death.
Both incidents in South Carolina and New Orleans he is absolutely correct but they are two examples. An officer(especially inner city officers) can make several life and death decisions in the matter of a shift. How many of those decisions that are made properly get reported on? Extremely few!

[Retro Rocket]

It is hard to argue when people to live or work in these areas and realize how they act day in and day out then they judge an officer who has to make a decision and react in tenth a of a second. Most people get minutes or hours to make major decisions at work, let alone life and death.
Both incidents in South Carolina and New Orleans he is absolutely correct but they are two examples. An officer(especially inner city officers) can make several life and death decisions in the matter of a shift. How many of those decisions that are made properly get reported on? Extremely few!

I get it mate, I never challenged that....

[demon78]

If I can leap in here and muddy the waters, for me I don't give a #$%* whether it's left or rightist media or even if  it's US, Canadian, British or any thing else, as citizens we have a right to get twitchy about our law enforcement killing citizens with out absolute justification and cops or politicians better be on that because several things could happen, people could hit the streets or simply refuse to pay or listen to either, then the system breaks down and every ones out of a job, no pension. The other thing as a citizen I'm getting annoyed with is the attitude of the cops that say you come here now or I'll shoot you, charge you, hurt you, what  ever, #$%* you give me name rank and serial number, talk to me like a human and I will respond as a proper citizen should, but to prejudge me is bypassing the "Justice System" and I won't have it. As far as the difference between the countries go we each have our darknesses and our lights I would think that cops should be looking to the future to try and make the societies more civilized to make their future jobs easier.
Bill the demon.

[JWExperience]

Your right, you do have the right to get twitchy. But in these deadly force situations I'm just asking that people save the twitchy, in Baltimore and Ferguson it's known as rioting, until the facts are known and justice is or is not served. Again I will not say that there are no bad cops. It's inevitable, human nature. It is also very easy to pass judgement and the penal law, criminal procedure law and use of force continuum are like rocket science for the average citizen. They can sit at home see 30 seconds of a video with little context and say that cops used excessive force. The incident recently in NYC is a perfect example. The video sounds and looks bad to civilians but was justified.
Also, cops can't change the future and "make" people more civilized when the government does everything it can to ruin the future. The government instituted modern day slavery with our welfare system. We are creating whole generations that ask what everyone else can do for them and do nothing to better themselves. The majority of people on public assistance stay on it and become handcuffed to the system. Now we want to pay people 15 dollars an hour to work at McDonald's. No incentive what so ever to get an education. We are getting fat and dumber as a society. One thing you are definitely accurate on is that there will be s collapse at the rate were going but I think for different reasons. 

[LesterPiglet]

Retraining wouldn't hurt.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/were-not-heroes-just-tourists-swedish-police-officers-on-holiday-stop-vicious-assault-on-new-york-subway-10201616.html

[JWExperience]

Lol. You are very accurate about people not being honest about what really occurred. Still blows my mind that people are protesting on the hands up don't shoot platform when that was proven to be a lie. The justice system usually gets it right.
Love the Honda reference!
I should stop reading the open forum, not sure if that or being a cop is more hazardous to my health. 

[JWExperience]

Retraining wouldn't hurt.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/were-not-heroes-just-tourists-swedish-police-officers-on-holiday-stop-vicious-assault-on-new-york-subway-10201616.html

Haha. Another example of what people don't know. Thanks piglet.

[70CB750]

It is hard to argue with people that don't live or work in these areas and they don't realize how these people we deal with act day in and day out. Then they have the audacity to judge an officer who has to make a decision and react in tenth a of a second. Most people get minutes or hours to make major decisions at work, let alone life and death.
Both incidents in South Carolina and New Orleans he is absolutely correct but they are two examples. An officer(especially inner city officers) can make several life and death decisions in the matter of a shift. How many of those decisions that are made properly get reported on? Extremely few!

I am with you JW, I know few stories, I have many friends who ride Harleys for Fairfax County and that's actually a very decent city.

Here is a quote from Thomas Sowell, that pretty much sums it up:

You cannot take any people, of any color, and exempt them from the requirements of civilization — including work, behavioral standards, personal responsibility, and all the other basic things that the clever intelligentsia disdain — without ruinous consequences to them and to society at large.

That's where the riots start, it just needs a trigger, riots in Fergusson would happen no matter what the output of the investigation was.

[JWExperience]

Very true.
Baltimore happened because of liberal policies. Same reasons why Obama's city of Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in the country while also having the strictest gun laws. No accountability and loads of entitlement.

[demon78]

Guys let's not get too up about liberal intelligentsia being the root of the problem that's horse #$%* spread with a trowel, #$%* it I have an argument brilliant in it's thesis and wide in it's scope but am lazy to express it at the moment also I have to pee.
Bill the demon.

[JWExperience]

The root of the problem is that liberals suck and Conservatives suck less. I'll vote for the next person that is not a politician, that will run the country like a business to get rid of the national debt, make decisions based on what is best for the country(not their party), have a sense of how to deal with foreign affairs and reform welfare the irs etc.
People here want to make comments about this country having a police state while our current government(Obama, holder) attacks people before facts are released. Then they have the irs go after people because of their party affiliation/ religious beliefs. I would also like to know the benefit of open borders besides bringing more uneducated poor people here to get on welfare and then vote  democrat. Meanwhilev these same LIBERALS that make our country less safe by exiting a still active war against a fanatical enemy only to allow them to regroup and be even more pissed off, will eventually attempt to vote in another dynasty(Clinton) who will sell our countries uranium to the RUSSIANS that will ultimately deal with Iran, both of whom would blow our country off the map with the right opportunity. If that sounds like a healthy proposition, let's get off the liberals and keep voting for career politicians that put themselves and their party first then lie to the American people because they can.

[JWExperience]

I HATE COFEE

[Retro Rocket]

How predictable, its all the lefts or the liberals fault....I'm with Bill, thats a load of horse sh1t. No really, I'm sick to death of the labeling crap, Liberal, lefties, socialists, communists, someone who can debate rationally would have the common sense to understand that we are SOCIAL creatures, in all countries, no matter how good or bad anyone thinks their system is, it has bits and pieces of "all of the above", simply cutting it down the middle to "left and right" is a poor way to make a "constructive" point, I don't care who you are {generalization}..I see positives and negatives on both sides, drop the labels and stay constructive...

[Bailgang]

Screw the conservative or liberal blame game. Has anyone considered simply teaching our children to obey the law? Is it really that far fetched of an idea?

[JWExperience]

Pretty sure my last comment did not fully blame liberals. I said they just suck more. Quit putting words in my mouth and this would be a better debate.
As usual I bring up real issues and get attached with broad sweeping statements.
I have cramp in my thumb and a beer to drink while cleaning my arsenal. That's much more important that trying to break you guys out of your bubble.

[demon78]

Right on RR that is/was part of my argument. The rest of you guys should have more brights than to frame as left or right, you are being manipulated, you say in the states that the liberals are the problem in Canada the conservatives are the problem they are destroying what was a reasonable country trying to make it into Tea Party North which might sound to be reasonable to you in the south, but we don't have the same history as you, we never had the same political system, we are not Republicans we don't live in a republic so trying to force us into a united states is idiocy but the good old Conservatives haven't sorted that out yet. As far the other difference, firearms we don't need guns here in the same way you guys do One of our hero's was a sargeant  by the name of Sam Steele NWMP look him up and you be a little clearer on our gun culture. I suppose the only way I would support the Left Right dialogue  is if you said the #$%*ing idiots in this organization have gone overboard with social justice to buy votes or the #$%*s have dropped us into a conflict for money again. Left Right has #$%* to do with it.
I will  think about this more
Bill the demon.

[JWExperience]

Lol. ANOTHER PERSON ARGUING FROM OUTSIDE THIS COUNTRY!!!!!
Do I comment on Canada?!?! You guys do not live here and are commenting on what you read and hear in the news!
What a wasted debate, you can't even give me your opinion, it means nothing. You know nothing about reality here in our cities so shut it!!!!! Apparently u missed the part about how I work in a city and deal with people face to face.
Think about it all you want bill. I could care less what you think. The last time I thought about Canada was when I was nineteen and wanted to drink legally.
I'm done arguing with people from outside the U.S. What a waste.

[seanbarney41]

sorry JW, but just because you live in the city really means little.  Dealing with people face to face?  Pretty hard to really do as a police officer...just a little bit of a power discrepancy going on there, isn't there?  Sounds to me like Bill and Retro are more experienced, thoughtful, informed and educated than the average American who thinks the media is "liberal"...and the only reason argueing with them is a waste to you is because you are losing the argument.