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Offline creepxstreet

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Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« on: May 04, 2015, 05:15:10 pm »
Ring gap recommendations?
Rev limit with stock rods?
10.25:1
Besides the pistons the engine will be getting
Very ported head
Kenny Harmon F grind cam
Stiffer springs
Cometic head gasket
CycleX power arc ignition
Mikuni RS34s
Bike already has a complete GSXR1000 front end, MotoGPwerks exhaust, Calfab/motoGPwerks swing arm, 17" sportbike wheels and Bridgestone battlax s20 tires so it should be even more fun soon.

Over the weekend i tore 2 new carb boots while out riding in the city. I've been running velocity stacks so the only thing holding the carbs on was the boots and they didn't like that. I got the 836 kit, head, cam all brand new and a balanced stock crank/rods at a local swap meet from an older gentleman who ran out of time to build what he wanted. This weekends screw up is the perfect excuse to put it all together. for times sake I'm only interested in doing the top end and not splitting the cases. this winter i plan on Cyclex lightweight crank, super rods and lightweight charging system. The bikes only got about 18k miles on it and it was previously owned by 2 old men so i don't feel that i should be too worried about cam and primary chains. I do plan on using an adjustable cam sprocket and degreeing the cam in. I'll be referencing a Cylmer manual for specificationsand procedures. Bike will be road tuned with a wideband.  Is there anything i should know about, expect or also plan on doing while the head and jugs are being swapped? Thanks for any and all help guys.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 05:19:39 pm by creepxstreet »
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2015, 05:31:21 pm »
You have my interest.  What type of rear wheel are you running on that MotoGP/Calfab swingarm? And what type of sprocket and rear brake (can't see the other side)? 

When you decide to run the RS34s you can ask Tweakin or Doctor D (or others) or call Ian Halcott who spent several hours dyno-tuning RS34s to a 836 Wiseco kit, ported head and cam engine (Doctor D's).  http://twinlinemoto.com/
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 05:34:07 pm »
Tell us about the valves................RS34s like BIGGER valves ;)
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Offline creepxstreet

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2015, 05:59:49 pm »
CBR F3 rear wheel and brake with a bunch machined off the outside of the sprocket carrier to get chainline.

Valves I think are stock, I haven't been able to measure them as there's no cam in the head right now and I don't have a spring compressor
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2015, 06:46:21 pm »
Quote from: creepxstreet on May 04, 2015, 05:59:49 pm
CBR F3 rear wheel and brake with a bunch machined off the outside of the sprocket carrier to get chainline.

Valves I think are stock, I haven't been able to measure them as there's no cam in the head right now and I don't have a spring compressor

If you are pulling the engine to put rods and so forth in, I would change the stock cam chain for a heavy duty one, they are cheap and well worth it... ;)
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2015, 03:41:45 am »
Heavy duty primary chains too. My engine run with less rattle with the good primary chains from Classic Cycle City that cost some more.
I saved money when I did not install better rods. I regret that now since I have a fun cam or 2 that revs engine much quicker beyond 9000....
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Offline creepxstreet

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2015, 04:13:31 am »
Spplitting the cases for new chains won't be happening until this winter, but they are definitely on my shopping list. Mainly asking if I should consider anything else while the jug and head is off it next week.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 04:19:46 am »
Heavy duty studs..?
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 06:31:09 am »
Assuming you plan to split the cases down the road this winter, save the primary chain, rods and a back cut transmission until then. You can even wait on HD cykinder studs. I would not necessarily wait on a cam chain though if it needs it. This would require splitting and a balancing of how much and how hard you will ride it, and IF you are really going to tear it completely down this winter.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 08:00:34 am by CB750 Cafe Racer Fan »
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline creepxstreet

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2015, 06:53:10 am »
Cam chain I still have to split the cases right? Or is there a way to fish it through? I'll probably break the engine down this Friday. Got my power arc ignition today. I'm going to time everything using the points plate and get it running then install the power arc I think.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2015, 07:06:07 am »
HD camchain is closed. Open the cases. The chain tensioners not to be forgotten too. Old hard rubber that you might find close to the oilpump in small pieces.
If you have pulled engine, removed head and cyl block.Open the cases it is not much extra job, only extra $$$$
Wait doing it will cost more when you need to purchase more gaskets for next time. Do not forget ALL o-rings, especially the Oil pump route up to cam holders. There is a thread about those O-rings.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 10:28:54 am by PeWe »
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Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
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http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
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K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2015, 08:02:46 am »
PeWe has a good point. If you can wait until winter (if you only have slight leaks) wait and save money on replacing things twice. Then do a comprehensive rebuild in the winter.
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1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
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1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline bear

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2015, 04:20:26 pm »
Quote from: PeWe on May 05, 2015, 07:06:07 am
HD camchain is closed. Open the cases. The chain tensioners not to be forgotten too. Old hard rubber that you might find close to the oilpump in small pieces.
If you have pulled engine, removed head and cyl block.Open the cases it is not much extra job, only extra $$$$
Wait doing it will cost more when you need to purchase more gaskets for next time. Do not forget ALL o-rings, especially the Oil pump route up to cam holders. There is a thread about those O-rings.


And cush drive, don't forget the poor old cush drive rubbers will be shot.
Good luck with that ignition.

Cheers,
Brian
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Offline creepxstreet

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2015, 05:24:43 pm »


Quote from: bear on May 05, 2015, 04:20:26 pm
And cush drive, don't forget the poor old cush drive rubbers will be shot.
Good luck with that ignition.

Cheers,
Brian

Cush drive is only 10 years old as opposed to 40, see picture on first post.
Anything I need to know about the ignition?
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Offline creepxstreet

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 05:27:29 pm »
Quote from: CB750 Cafe Racer Fan on May 05, 2015, 08:02:46 am
PeWe has a good point. If you can wait until winter (if you only have slight leaks) wait and save money on replacing things twice. Then do a comprehensive rebuild in the winter.
The carbs fell off and tore the boots. They were a month old lol. Velocity stacks, no airbox support, mainly city riding did them in.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2015, 05:27:42 pm »
Quote from: creepxstreet on May 05, 2015, 05:24:43 pm


Quote from: bear on May 05, 2015, 04:20:26 pm
And cush drive, don't forget the poor old cush drive rubbers will be shot.
Good luck with that ignition.

Cheers,
Brian





Cush drive is only 10 years old as opposed to 40, see picture on first post.
Anything I need to know about the ignition?

On of our members just had his hipo 750 destroy itself twice due to a malfunctioning power arc ignition... :o

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,109584.1200.html
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 07:31:36 pm by Retro Rocket »
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Offline bear

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2015, 07:08:08 pm »
Quote from: Retro Rocket on May 05, 2015, 05:27:42 pm
Quote from: creepxstreet on May 05, 2015, 05:24:43 pm


Quote from: bear on May 05, 2015, 04:20:26 pm
And cush drive, don't forget the poor old cush drive rubbers will be shot.
Good luck with that ignition.

Cheers,
Brian

On of our members just had his hipo 750 destroy itself twice due to a malfunctioning power arc ignition... :o

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,109584.1200.html



Cush drive is only 10 year
Quote from: Retro Rocket on May 05, 2015, 05:27:42 pm
Quote from: creepxstreet on May 05, 2015, 05:24:43 pm


Quote from: bear on May 05, 2015, 04:20:26 pm
And cush drive, don't forget the poor old cush drive rubbers will be shot.
Good luck with that ignition.

Cheers,
Brian

On of our members just had his hipo 750 destroy itself twice due to a malfunctioning power arc ignition... :o

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,109584.1200.html



Cush drive is only 10 years old as opposed to 40, see picture on first post.
Anything I need to know about the ignition?
s old as opposed to 40, see picture on first post.
Anything I need to know about the ignition?

Not quite the same unit as yours, same mob though.

I personally am not a fan of optical pickups.

The concept has been regurgitated many times over the years without a lot of success.
They have been a bit fagile in the past and all this ho-har about "new technology" is a load of Buncombe.

Cheers,
Brian
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Offline scottly

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2015, 07:23:01 pm »
Bear, can you define "Buncombe" for me? It seems I've lost track of the Australian translation guide one of the Micks posted a few years ago. ;D ;D
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2015, 07:33:06 pm »
Quote from: scottly on May 05, 2015, 07:23:01 pm
Bear, can you define "Buncombe" for me? It seems I've lost track of the Australian translation guide one of the Micks posted a few years ago. ;D ;D

Bullsh1t.... ;D
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Offline scottly

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2015, 07:38:22 pm »
So was Buncombe a politician? ::)
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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2015, 07:44:34 pm »
Quote from: scottly on May 05, 2015, 07:38:22 pm
So was Buncombe a politician? ::)

Quite possibly Scott.... ;D ;)
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Offline Big Jay

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2015, 10:14:07 pm »
Stock rods are a huge risk with the 836, cam and springs.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2015, 11:34:24 pm »
Quote from: Big Jay on May 05, 2015, 10:14:07 pm
Stock rods are a huge risk with the 836, cam and springs.

I agree, another thing that always seems to be left out of the equation is the fact that, most stock rods are 35 to 45years old, they've already done lots and lots of work...
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Offline bear

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2015, 02:11:08 am »
Quote from: scottly on May 05, 2015, 07:38:22 pm
So was Buncombe a politician? ::)

Close Scottly, it's what most of them produce. ;)

Cheers,
Brian
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Few quick questions about wiseco 836 drop ins
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2015, 03:30:53 am »
Quote from: Big Jay on May 05, 2015, 10:14:07 pm
Stock rods are a huge risk with the 836, cam and springs.
My cam that is much more alert at higher rpms is much more fun. I did a dyno test with it and got 83+ whp. The tuner was concerned about the std rods with 836 + cam + 83+.

On the road, when the tacho needle entered the green area beyond the red I was worried too. It happened very quickly on 2:nd and 3:rd gear. Wheelie when slamming in 3:rd on a bumpy road.

I think I and my engine need the Ultra crank with rods.... http://cbrzone.com/cranksrods.html
It is easier to install it too, no thoughts about rod bearings/bolts/correct torque. I need a crank with journals fitting my BBBBB case with fresh green shells in. I hope possible to switch without lifting head and cylinders, only cam off to give chain slack for the crank.
The domino effect starts... it must have undercutted trans too, right? If not I need to open it again next year.... :) 4:th gear can sometimes jump when I have not shifted correctly.
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CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967
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