Topic: Re: Rickman restoration

[Retro Rocket]

This car was welded, not brazed. In any case, my Seeley will never see an acid tank or oven while I own it.

I think it probably had more to do with the heat from welding than the powder oven...

when welding there are minuses to consider. The joints are made at high temperatures, high enough to melt both base metals and filler metal. High temperatures can cause problems, such as possible distortion and warping of the base metals

[scottly]

With either welding or brazing the heat is concentrated at the joints, while an oven heats the entire assembly. One inch of tubing has less elongation than 2 feet of the same tubing, heated to the same temp.

[Retro Rocket]

I'm not trying to argue Scott but powdercoating will not hurt that frame, the temps are far lower, welding uses much higher temps than brazing and way more than a powder oven, its very common to powder coat race car frames, and bike frames, even alloy. With welding you are melting both joined surfaces at very high temps, this can and does cause distortion this isn't the case with brazing..
The metal would haver to be very thin walled to warp {if at all} in the time it takes to cure powdercoat, much thinner than a race car chassis....

[hagar24]

Ok, so here is my question again since as I don't think they did the nickel on the frame before they put it together,what do any of you suggest I do?

[Retro Rocket]

Ok, so here is my question again since as I don't think they did the nickel on the frame before they put it together,what do any of you suggest I do?

The nickel coating is done after the frame is assembled, I suggest getting out the phone book and chasing down your options, not much we can do... If you can't get nickel done, maybe polish the frame and get it sealed with a good clear powder coat, it will look similar, the only other option is to send your frame away to be nickel coated. Nickel coating isn't a highly involved process, are you certain no one in Jamaica can do it.  After a quick search i found these guys, if they don't do it they may be able to send you to someone who can...

http://www.coatingsplatingsjamaica.us/

[hagar24]

I know people that does power coating, but I want to keep the frame authentic with the nickel, not sure how power would holdup under close inspection since as I am a member of a classic club.

[jaguar]

Look into "Brightside" yacht paint.
I have used it before.  Great stuff that holds up well.

[Powderman]

I've been asked to way in here on the powder coating issue. Everything Retrosaid is spot on. There is absolutely no concern with the 400* heat for 10 minutes causing any detrimental effect to the metal or welds/brazes. You can sand blast the nickle off too virgin metal and powder coat it and be done. The only things I have ever seen warp in the oven is old pot metal parts.

[01Thomas]

I have the same problem with my nickel-plated  Seeley, although it's nowhere as bad as on your bike. My solution was to clean the crud off it lightly with a rotating wire brush (chucked in a drill) and then to coat it liberally with a commercial phosphoric acid rust-buster - twice.

Then I polished it up nicely and gave it two coats of clear lacquer. Of great importance are the parts you can't see and get to when the bike is assembled: under and behind the steering head and the gearbox & swingarm area.

I would get that frame replated, the salty Island air has really had its way with it ...

Hard to do here, would have to send it to the US, and thats a whole other story.

[hagar24]

Day 3 I am left with this,and everyone here has more experience that I will ever have so, I will go with the power coating, now can anyone say what is the nearest coating I can use to make this look nickel?

[Retro Rocket]

Polish up the frame first and go with a good clear powder coat, it will almost look like chrome, which Nickel does....... Someone here just did this to their front forks, I'll see if i can find them and i'll post the pics here...

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I polished my forks and followed with a clear power coat. 

Original Oxidized Lowers



Polished Lowers


Clear Powder Coated Lowers

[hagar24]

Polish up the frame first and go with a good clear powder coat, it will almost look like chrome, which Nickel does....... Someone here just did this to their front forks, I'll see if i can find them and i'll post the pics here...

Thanks Retro Rocket.

[Tews19]

God that's gorgeous Don! How is it holding up?

[hagar24]

I polished my forks and followed with a clear power coat. 

Original Oxidized Lowers



Polished Lowers


Clear Powder Coated Lowers

YUM, I am liking that, if thats how it will look when done I am doing it, if I can get the rust spots to shine first.

[Retro Rocket]

Thanks Don, thats the pics I was thinking about. Here is a picture of a bicycle frame with clear powder on it, the powder will preserve what ever finish you have on the raw steel, raw steel will polish up like chrome if you put the work in as you can see in Dons pics.., you may be able to find someone who polishes metals to help...Raw steel with clear powder, this frame isn't polished, just sanded......

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

An alternative is to powdercoat the frame with ceramic powder coating that is the color of polished metal.  I have seen in on exhaust pipes and fork lowers.  The only downside to it is that if the metal is not finely polished beforehand, the powder coating will not be a brilliant mirror finish, but have some undulations in the finish.

Here is a Kawasaki H2 with ceramic coated expansion chambers.  You can see that the metal is not as mirror-brilliant as my clear-coated fork lowers above.

[PeWe]

Light grey/silver 2k or powder coat on frame would look ok. Steel will corrode under clear if scratched.

[hagar24]

Light grey/silver 2k or powder coat on frame would look ok. Steel will corrode under clear if scratched.

Good to know PeWe, thanks

[Retro Rocket]

Steel will corrode under clear if scratched.

Same is true when painted, nickel coated, chromed etc. 

Exactly.....

[hagar24]

So Guys, after a week of scraping, wire brushing, sanding and polishing, this is what I have, I just can get sand paper to go deep enough into the frame to bring up a shine, and I am using from 100 to 180.
 

[hagar24]

And this.

[scottly]

The Reynolds 531 manganese-moly steel will not match what's left of the nickel plating no matter how much you polish it. Axl paid 800 euros in 2003 to have a Seeley frame stripped, polished, and re-plated. I would paint it a silver color, as close as I could find to the original nickle, and move on to more important issues, like replacing the thoroughly rusted out fuel tank, but that's just me.

[01Thomas]

Hear Hear!

The Reynolds 531 manganese-moly steel will not match what's left of the nickel plating no matter how much you polish it. Axl paid 800 euros in 2003 to have a Seeley frame stripped, polished, and re-plated. I would paint it a silver color, as close as I could find to the original nickle, and move on to more important issues, like replacing the thoroughly rusted out fuel tank, but that's just me.

[hagar24]

The Reynolds 531 manganese-moly steel will not match what's left of the nickel plating no matter how much you polish it. Axl paid 800 euros in 2003 to have a Seeley frame stripped, polished, and re-plated. I would paint it a silver color, as close as I could find to the original nickle, and move on to more important issues, like replacing the thoroughly rusted out fuel tank, but that's just me.

Of course thats just you Scottly, but I am already getting a tank built,in the mean time I am trying to get the frame as best as it can look without the stripping and renickeling, no point looking at it and not try to make it better, but thats just me.