Topic: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects

[bwaller]

500/550 tachs are 20:3.

All SOHC4 speedo's are 2240:60

[FunJimmy]

For those who are interested, I purchased an eBook that is pretty fantastic.  I'm not allowed to include the whole thing (and honestly, I'd have to make a screenshot of every page to do so) but here are the pages from the chapter on how rake/trail, etc effect steering geometry.

This is the book.  I happen to think it's worth every penny of the $13 or so that I paid for it:

Thanks for the read up Ron.
Gonna have to add that book to my library.

[Restoration Fan]

Thanks, Brent.

Any time, Jimmy.  The way the eBook is done, I can share it but only between my own personal devices that are on my account.  It's definitely worth the money for the book though, IMO.  I've enjoyed the chapters I've read quite a bit. 

[RAFster122s]

I believe there are several options from some of the suppliers for the CB bikes but,, a smaller unit is harder to read. There is one tach speedo that are available from several suppliers. I think that is why several modern bikes went to digital readout for speed is quicker to read with less space required while we process the tach as a sweeping needle or digital sweeping curved bar...
Ottete (I am butchering the name I bet...) a Dutch SOHC/4 member did a build and integrated a Sigma wired bicycle computer into the tach housing. This gave him the speedo and mileage function as well as some of a bicycle computer's functions. There is room at the bottom of the tach for a display embedded in a cutout of the tach face. His looked very professional when finished. The Sigma wired or wireless units use magnetic pickups and are adjustable. This is often the method aftermarket electronic speedos use. Older high-end versions can be picked up used by cyclist upgrading their computers, a good way to save money. He relocated the buttons and inserted a led to illuminate the LCD at night; backlights would probably fail as they aren't designed to be always on.
I think it was Brent or was it another member,  whose name is escaping me, who suggested a pickup point at the front sprocket rather than the front wheel. So, calibrate it to the whereever it is placed iand fine tune with an accurate GPS. Other modern aftermarket units rely on GPS but they are $$.
I have a TomTom Via 1505LM car GPS and a motorcycle GPS, Garmin Zumo 220   (older model), neither agree on the speed. I just discovered from both my speedometer is accurate until I go past 60 mph.

[RAFster122s]

Sorry for lengthy reply, reached limit of tablet's ability to edit a long reply. That's on my car,haven't tested the sohc4 speedo....
Reports from many indicate they aren't accurate even when new, but that is upper range of limit which is typical of most gauges are designed to be most accurate at middle of range.

So, while it may be cooler or less obstructive to go smaller realize it will take longer to read. Sometime it is OK, but, it willtake a while to memorize the relative positions.
 I hope you have good luck in your selection and get what you want.
I am not against the smaller gauges, I just wanted to throw out an option or two...
Now we are having a taste of winter here the bikes I've been seeing certainly won't be ridden today with temps in the low to mid 30s during day and we will see temps around 20 tonight and 13F tomorrow night. We had snow flurries today.

Good luck on the build, I have enjoyed following your progress.

David

[Restoration Fan]

Great response, David.  Thank you.
Here in Atlanta, it was down into the 20's early this morning so much too cold for me to consider riding.
 
I'm getting ready to winterize Stella this weekend and change out her stator and change the oil/oil filter.
She'll probably go down into the basement with the 500. 

Especially since the wife now knows about the bikes.  She walked down into the basement for the first time yesterday and sent me a text message complaining about how disorganized the tool room is...then followed that up with a text saying "Nice motorcycle down there, by the way".  I told her she wasn't supposed to have seen that yet because I had wanted the first time she knew about it to be when I put the bike in the garage beside Stella.  That way, when she said, "Oh...so now we have TWO motorcycles?", I could have answered with, "Nope...three...there's another in the basement."

She just laughed when I told her that and said, "yeah...you WOULD find that funny, wouldn't you?"

[Stev-o]

Hey Ron...your wife sounds like a better sport than mine. My wife would flip if she saw one in the house (not many basements here).  Every once in a while she'll count the number of bikes in the garage... "Six motorcycles, really?! You need to sell two!" I just laugh....

[RAFster122s]

Steve, she doesn't know about the ones in storage hidden away?

I forgot to mention bike computers might not be able to cope with very small diameter of sprocket. It was calj---- I forget the numbers in his ID.

David

[Restoration Fan]

Hey Ron...your wife sounds like a better sport than mine. My wife would flip if she saw one in the house (not many basements here).  Every once in a while she'll count the number of bikes in the garage... "Six motorcycles, really?! You need to sell two!" I just laugh....

She is a pretty good sport most of the time.  She did get kind of irked at me this weekend when I answered a question though.  One of her cousins was at our house and asked how long we had been married.  I told her "It will be 25 years in August...and I just about have her trained.  She's even house broken now."

Don't know why she didn't take that as the compliment it was intended to be.

[Restoration Fan]

So I finally got in touch with the people from All Balls today.  As the young man and I were talking, I went back to the beginning of the thread and discovered @ least part of the problem.....the front end I purchased from Bill Benton is a 2008 CBR1000RR front end.  When you go to purchase the conversion bearings from All Balls, their conversion kits go up through the 2007 year.  I assume that means that the steering stem thickness changed from 2007 to 2008...as the one I have is literally 5 mm thicker than the interior diameters of these kits.

I also put the front end into the fork and put the aluminum triple tree top onto it just to see how the measurement fits and it appears the stem is a few mm too long (approximately about 10mm).  I don't know how much of that will be taken up via the steering stem bearing kit but it should help some...as the bottom is now able to go farther up into the neck than it will be with a few mm of bearings as well as the upper & lower races. 

The young man is going to take the photos over to their guys in fabrication and see what they can come up with.  Worst case, I will have to replace the CBR steering stem with one from the 550.  But i really like the aluminum triple tree top and would prefer to use it if I can.  Again, worst case I could have a spacer turned that will take up the difference in the stem neck thickness and the hole in the aluminum triple tree.

All in all though...very good customer service and you have to love it when a company tries to work WITH you to come up with a solution that makes you happy.  I'll keep you updated when I hear back from them with my options.

[calj737]

Press the stem back (out) the 10mm, cut it off and weld it. Done.

[Restoration Fan]

Press the stem back (out) the 10mm, cut it off and weld it. Done.

That's what I'm hoping to do ... but only if they can come up with the appropriate conversion bearings for me at All Balls.

[Restoration Fan]

Heard back from All Balls today.  According to their R&D department, they don't believe that it will be possible to manufacture a ball bearing set that will allow me to use the 2008 CBR1000RR stem inside of the 550's neck with just a conversion bearing.  The reason is that the thickness of the stem (36 mm) doesn't leave enough room for the bearings and the race.

So it looks like my only option to use that front end on the 550 will be to press out the steering stem from within the CBR's triple tree and replace it with a 550 stem. 

I did some measurements and that thickness has a 5mm difference between the bottom of the two stems.  So I suppose my option is to have a 5mm spacer made up and have that welded into the lower CBR tree along with the stem from the 550 steering stem.  That will also mean that I'll need a 5mm spacer for the top stem to fit in the upper CBR triple tree as well.

Edited to add:
Just FYI in case someone else wants to do this conversion.  If you do, find a CBR front end that's a 1999 - 2007 model.  In 2008, the steering stem for the CBR1000RR was increased by 5mm in thickness over the stem from those 9 years.

[calj737]

Easier to make a custom 550 stem that is the correct length. Some 6061 turned on a lathe. Sounds about a two hour job.

[Restoration Fan]

Easier to make a custom 550 stem that is the correct length. Some 6061 turned on a lathe. Sounds about a two hour job.

That's a really good idea.  I don't have a lathe but I think I can take it to a machine shop and have them fab one for me. 

Question:  When pressing the stem out of the tree.  I assume you press the stem from the top downward through the lower stem?

[calj737]

Take the stems and lowers of both. You want the stock dimensions on a piece pressed into the CBR, right?

[Restoration Fan]

Take the stems and lowers of both. You want the stock dimensions on a piece pressed into the CBR, right?

Correct.  The forks on the CBR are 55mm so there's no way they're going to fit into a normal 550 tree's 35mm holes.  So my option seems to be to get a 550 stem to fit into the CBR trees.

[calj737]

Yeah I knew about the forks, but how much too long is the stem overall from the CBR, 10mm?

[Restoration Fan]

Yeah I knew about the forks, but how much too long is the stem overall from the CBR, 10mm?

Yes.  The CBR stem is about 10mm too long.  I won't know it exactly until I press it out of the base but the CBR stem is about 10mm longer than the CB stem.

[calj737]

Just to be clear, the portion above the top edge of the bottom is the only length that matters. The length of the stem within the lower clamp is irrelevant. Thicker top clamps and lower clamps is a matter of strength and modern stems are much deeper in these clamps.

I think Devin may already have a stem made that you can buy and press in, or have done by him/your guy.

[Restoration Fan]

Just to be clear, the portion above the top edge of the bottom is the only length that matters. The length of the stem within the lower clamp is irrelevant. Thicker top clamps and lower clamps is a matter of strength and modern stems are much deeper in these clamps.

I think Devin may already have a stem made that you can buy and press in, or have done by him/your guy.

Great info, cal.  Thank you.

I'll reach out to see.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

The stems are easy enough to press out and press in with a hydraulic press.  Had a CB750 stem pressed into a 2008 CBR600RR lower triple.

[Restoration Fan]

Don,
Did you end up using the CBR upper with that setup as well?  If so, what did you do to take up the extra space since that 750 stem is smaller in diameter than the CBR stem was?

Ron

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Ron,

Initially, I planned to use the CBR upper and lower with the 750!stem. I had no fitment issues. The CBR600RR likely differs from your CBR1000RR tree.

To optimize offset for 18" wheels, I had Devin make me some new triples with thei own seem included.

[Restoration Fan]

Well, I'm finally getting a chance to get back onto this build and update the thread.

Mike, my buddy who helped as Logan's project facilitator on the Stella project, is also the guy who laid out the wiring diagram for this bike using the PDM 60 unit.  He came over to the house and shot a YouTube video that he published on his channel and does a really good job of explaining how we are using the PDM 60 on this bike but also just some of the basic wiring "theory". 

(P.S. He also has the links below the video for the consolidate wiring diagram as well as the diagram for each individual circuit by itself.  I printed out the individual circuits on 11x17 paper on the color printer at the office and it made it MUCH simpler for me to wire the bike because you could focus on only those wires one circuit at a time.  They're out there for any of you who would like to download them.)

Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9248MrTsSy4