Topic: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects

[Restoration Fan]

Cal,
That's excellent advice.  Thank you for taking the time to put it together.
The good thing about this build is that we get to do the 500 first as a "test case".  Since I have a running 500 motor, frame and pretty much all the needed components to make a running bike, I'm going with cosmetics at this point.  Cleaning up the engine to respray it.  Tidying up the frame, etc.  I have 2 wheels with good spokes both in really, really good shape.  The tires on them are serviceable for now as a roller.  Once we get ready to actually start riding it, I'll replace those with 2 new tires.

By the way, I got my Shorai battery you recommended in this week from Amazon...DANG that this is light and small compared to the one on Stella...I love it!

We will take that 500 and get it running and riding and experiment with how he likes the various handlebar heights.  We'll start off with regular placement of foot controls and then later move to rear sets once he's comfortable.  So that by the time I start on the 550, I have a definitive plan of how we want the bike to look.  On the first one, we won't use the mUnit because I want to keep the costs down so that when I sell it, I can use the money to dump into Logan's bike.

One really valuable lesson I've learned from many of your posts on various threads is the need to really plan out my components and where they'll be on these bikes.  Since we're trying to hide the electronics, the first thing I want to do is start laying out the those out before we install the engine so that we can figure out what does and doesn't work from an aesthetics AND functionality standpoint. 

I'm sure it won't be perfect on the 500 but hopefully it will be good enough to be functional and then we can apply the lessons we learn on that one to building the 550 for Logan.

By the way, do you have a specific brand/model of superbike bars you recommend?

[calj737]

I'm a bigot for Euro products admittedly, so I always first look at LSL, Rizoma, and then Norman Hyde, Renthal, and so forth.

LSL makes some pretty affordable, high quality aluminum bars, offered in varying heights, pull back, and color. Even have the new style of "fat bar" and my favorite, the carbon fiber bar (alloy core, carbon wrapped).

Your plan for the 500 is a great idea. Keep it clean and simple and much easier to sell.

As a clarification, I'm not an advocate of rear sets placed in the passenger peg spot. That's too far back and high for good posture. Think more of a "relocation" bracket to move them based upon Logan's physique. I had my eldest sit on a myriad of new bikes to find a geometry he liked. Took tons of pictures and some measurements, and we are using those findings to develop his bike. Custom designed, custom fit!
 

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

The body position and design Cal is advocating lends itself to a street tracker for a vintage bike. The USD forks will work well with that design too.

Rental makes great quality products including bars. That new Motogadget clamp/cluster is really clean, too.

[Restoration Fan]

LSL makes some pretty affordable, high quality aluminum bars, offered in varying heights, pull back, and color. Even have the new style of "fat bar" and my favorite, the carbon fiber bar (alloy core, carbon wrapped).

 
Just don't go looking for the super bike bars at www.lsl.com.  Fair warning...it's NOT a motorcycle site and definitely NSFW. 

[calj737]

I don't understand? That's the place I buy my bars and controls from, Ron. 
LOL, I guess I should have posted a proper link... Please use this site https://spieglerusa.com

[2strokeTrush]

Oh so very subscribed!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

LSL makes some pretty affordable, high quality aluminum bars, offered in varying heights, pull back, and color. Even have the new style of "fat bar" and my favorite, the carbon fiber bar (alloy core, carbon wrapped).

 
Just don't go looking for the super bike bars at www.lsl.com.  Fair warning...it's NOT a motorcycle site and definitely NSFW. 

HAhahahaahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! 

[NobleHops]

Ron - since you've been so tolerant of others opining about how you should build Logan's Reward, I'd offer this advice:

I don't like clip-on bars for new riders. I love inverted forks, and there's not a reason in the world I wouldn't use them on his bike, especially since he wants something a tad custom and modern with vintage soul. Instead, I would use Superbike Bars installed on rises in the top clamp. You can choose from a variety of lift heights to accommodate the exact posture and clearance of the tank too.

...

I could not agree more, and certainly would not have said it better. All I might add is that if you look at photos of the Superbike racers of the 70s, riding 70s bikes, they ALL used the Superbike bars Cal is suggesting. If clip-ons worked better for these 70s bikes, they'd have used them.

A way better choice IMO.

[AintNoEasyWay]

Yes, I <3 super bike bars...

[Restoration Fan]

I got most of the paint stripped off of the 500 tank, as well as getting almost all of the paint off of an early K model 750 tank I received as part of the "parts and engine purchase".  The 750 tank had literally 9 different discernable coats of different colored paint on it but looks pretty decent underneath now that I'm down to the bare metal on most of it.  Still need to probably put another coat or two of aircraft stripper on it tomorrow.

Regarding the 500 tank though, I've seen guys like Cal get some pretty good dents out of tanks before.  How would you recommend attacking the large dent in this one on the left side?  I almost reconsidered trying to do the knee indentations since the left side has a start already  but I think I want the lines on this first one to be more the stock style tank....at least at first.



Also got the frame touched up.  Bill told me this was a low mileage bike when the engine locked up on it and I believe it.  The original frame powdercoating was in really good shape on the bike on 95% of the frame and there's absolutely zero rust on it.


I didn't mess with cleaning up the center stand because it's only staying on the bike while the construction is ongoing...it'll come off once the bike is ready to ride.  Also, I won't be de-tabbing very much right now.  Once I get a cafe-styled seat and seat pan, I'll decide what has to go there but I have a set of superbike handlebars on order and a few bits and pieces from CognitoMoto are about to be placed for the under-seat electronics tray to hide the electronics. 

I won an auction for a set of 500 front forks on eBay this afternoon that will go onto this bike.  By the time those arrive, I'll have the cleanup of the wheels done and expect to have a roller by first of next week. In the meantime, I'm going to change the oil and plugs in the engine Thursday and test the oil pressure before the engine gets prepped and painted and put back into the frame.  That will probably take another week to 10 days before I have it ready to go from a cosmetic perspective.

All in all...just feels good to be making some progress.  Spent most of the entire holiday weekend with my baseball team so that is starting to put a drain on the time available for working on the bikes.

[calj737]

That dent is easiest removed with a rod inserted through the petcock, then push the dent out using a Paintless Dent Repair method. The metal is pretty thick gauge so it takes so umph to move it, but it works perfectly.

I've not had much luck using glue plugs on a dent like that on these tanks due to the thickness of metal.

A word of advice: with under seat electronics, if you do opt for a solid state Reg/Rec, then please don't install it under the seat. It really should have some airflow around it. Too many guys (me included on my 550 build) put them there and they run much hotter than they should. I like to see them installed "underneath" the tray from the bottom, of up near where the horn bracket is. Just extend the wiring and then you have the best of all worlds-

[Restoration Fan]

Cal,
Do you use something like rebar bent at an angle when you're doing it?  Or do you have a special tool you purchased?  I've seen the dent removal tools and don't mind buying one if it works.

[calj737]

I use a tool purchased for the work. 3/8" rod is all I've needed to do these tanks. 1/2" gets a bit meaty... I will also clamp the tool in a vice and massage the bend when necessary to create the curve I need to reach dents. Wrap the tip with Duct tape to avoid pick marks if you work on a painted tank.

Here's a few I've repaired:






You can see the metal was badly damaged and when dented that badly, stretched it. Pushing it back out, caused a tear-out so a small patch was welded in. Negligible amount of filler required afterward.

My BMW tank. Notice the small crease in the top edge?


Worked thru the petcock hole (fortunately, BMW has petcocks on both sides of tank right below that dent)


Notice the pick marks?



Some metal filing:



And finally, the amount of file required will be less than a pencil eraser.


Hope that helps -

[NobleHops]

I use a tool purchased for the work.

...


Hope that helps -

Man, I hafeta learn how to do this. I watched a guy do paintless dent removal on my wife's car a couple of years ago and he was very skilled - it was amazing. Thanks Cal.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

That's pretty slick.  I've heard that the guys who make a business of it have tools that look like overgrown dental instruments.

[Restoration Fan]

Coaching baseball has been taking up so much time lately that I haven't been able to do a whole lot to the 500 or the 550.  On nights when I haven't had baseball (not very many of those), I've been working on the tank for the 500.  I bought some front forks for the 500 off eBay and they are flawless.  I'm intending to paint the lowers but I almost hate to do that with these because they're in such good shape.  I bought them for $69 and there were spots showing in the photos on the lowers...I figured I could clean them up and paint them but when I received the forks, the spots were nothing but dirt and oil.  A few minutes with parts cleaner and they look gorgeous.

Also, I did make a deal with Bill yesterday for the front end for Logan's 550.  I'll be using the entire front end of a CBR1000RR as the front end for Logan's 550 bike.  Now I'm trying to contact a guy on CraigsList who has the rear wheel for a CBR600RR listed that matches this one.  It shows a rear rotor so I'm planning to get a rear master cylinder mounted for it so that we can run front and rear disk brakes on this bike.  Should help with the stopping significantly.
Pictures below:

[calj737]

What swing arm are you planning, Ron?

[Restoration Fan]

What swing arm are you planning, Ron?

I have a stock 550 swing arm but until I actually get that 600RR wheel and see how wide it is, I don't know if I can use that one or not.  I welcome any suggestions on that though.

The 500, which is the first build, will be using stock rims, forks and swingarm.

[calj737]

It may be wide enough, but the axle diameter may be larger. Also, there's no provision for a disc brake connection, so you'll need to fabricate something.

Two options: use the 600 swing arm (probably need to shave the pivot tube area, or, investigate the 750ss swing arm that uses a disc brake. Already may have the attachments and spacing you need on the right side. Perhaps Bill has one lying about for you to evaluate?

[Restoration Fan]

It may be wide enough, but the axle diameter may be larger. Also, there's no provision for a disc brake connection, so you'll need to fabricate something.

Two options: use the 600 swing arm (probably need to shave the pivot tube area, or, investigate the 750ss swing arm that uses a disc brake. Already may have the attachments and spacing you need on the right side. Perhaps Bill has one lying about for you to evaluate?

Bill does have some 750SS swing arms and some rear master cylinders.  That may be the simplest solution.

[Tews19]

The 750F rear wheel from what I have been told is a tank.

[Stev-o]

It may be wide enough, but the axle diameter may be larger. Also, there's no provision for a disc brake connection, so you'll need to fabricate something.

Two options: use the 600 swing arm (probably need to shave the pivot tube area, or, investigate the 750ss swing arm that uses a disc brake. Already may have the attachments and spacing you need on the right side. Perhaps Bill has one lying about for you to evaluate?

Bill does have some 750SS swing arms and some rear master cylinders.  That may be the simplest solution.

I have a 750 F swing arm that you can have for shipping if you choose.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

It may be wide enough, but the axle diameter may be larger. Also, there's no provision for a disc brake connection, so you'll need to fabricate something.

Two options: use the 600 swing arm (probably need to shave the pivot tube area, or, investigate the 750ss swing arm that uses a disc brake. Already may have the attachments and spacing you need on the right side. Perhaps Bill has one lying about for you to evaluate?

Bill does have some 750SS swing arms and some rear master cylinders.  That may be the simplest solution.

I have a 750 F swing arm that you can have for shipping if you choose.

That's a bargain. Free-fifty-free!
The F wheel is heavy compared to a modern wheel but you can lighten it by lacing it to an aluminum rim.

[Restoration Fan]

Baseball game got rained out today and the wife's plane had to make an emergency landing in Ireland, stranding her there for the day.  So I finally got some time to work on the bikes.

After removing the exhaust pipes and reinstalling them on Stella to fix an air leak on cylinder #2, she's sounding much better.  So I then decided to get some work done on the bikes for Logan.

Originally, I didn't have much plans for the 500 engine that came in the bike I bought from Bill.  Even though he said it was a low mileage engine, it was locked up and I wasn't sure I wanted to deal with that.  Well, I pulled the valve covers off and was amazed at how good the cam looked on this one.  Also the rocker arms look almost brand new so I began to think that maybe this engine was salvageable or at the very least, parts of it are.

Turns out everything from the head up on this engine is in fantastic shape.  Looks like it's just the rings that are frozen/rusted to the cylinders.  So there is now some Marvel Mystery Oil soaking in the cylinders for a few days.  If that doesn't do it, I'll throw in some ATF in there as well.  Once I'm able to break it loose, I'll decide what I'm going to do with this spare 500 engine.

Then I hooked up the battery to the good 500 engine and tested the starters I have.  The 500 engine that's going into the frame turned over and you could hear the compression in the cylinders (forgot to remove the spark plugs before I tested it).  That engine is currently being cleaned up and prepped for paint.  I have another 2 or 3 hours of good scrubbing/sanding/cleaning needed then it'll be ready for tape and paint prep. 

Handle bars are ordered and should be arriving this week.  I'm hoping to get the 500 engine painted and into the frame before I leave for Ft. Myers, FL with the baseball team next Friday.  I've already started cleaning the carbs and, assuming I can get the engine painted and in the frame this week, we might be able to hear this first one run by the end of July or early August.  I'll post some photos of the 500 engine once I've gotten it painted but for now, I'll just post some of the "spare" 500 that I'm rebuilding now.

Spare 500 Engine






I only took a photo of this head gasket because I was amazed that it was still in good shape.  With Stella, we had to scrape and scrape and soak and scape.  This one came off intact.

[calj737]

Ron - if the MMO doesn't release those rings, switch to Kroil. You can find it at some Home Centers, or always a firearms shop. You won't need nearly as much Kroil as you have MMO floating in those cylinders.

Or... Since you're already down to the block, slide her outside and pour some Kerosene into the cylinders, and touch her off with some heat. The fire will eat the rust, and won't damage the block or other parts at all (remove the rubber o-rings around the studs). Works a treat and should take all of about 15'-60' to get her rotating. Use a breaker bar on the stator side only to rotate the crank.