Author Topic: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects  (Read 74440 times)

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Offline calj737

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #275 on: October 01, 2015, 04:38:20 AM »
I was going to ask you where you get it from, should have known McMaster has it  :)
I used to think full length heat shrink was better, but then I began examining how rigid it makes the wiring in the loom, how impossible it is to troubleshoot electrics, and found this stuff. I much prefer it. I leave enough wire color exposed at all junctions to assist with routing identification and troubleshooting.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #276 on: October 01, 2015, 05:15:18 AM »
I was going to ask you where you get it from, should have known McMaster has it  :)
I used to think full length heat shrink was better, but then I began examining how rigid it makes the wiring in the loom, how impossible it is to troubleshoot electrics, and found this stuff. I much prefer it. I leave enough wire color exposed at all junctions to assist with routing identification and troubleshooting.

Plethora options, which one are you using?
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Offline calj737

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #277 on: October 01, 2015, 05:26:31 AM »
expandable polyester, fray resistant. here's the 1/8" part number. I use black, but colors might be fun?
http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=2837K11
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #278 on: October 01, 2015, 05:30:23 AM »
Aha, thanks!
Prokop
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I love it when parts come together.

Dorothy - my CB750
CB750K3F - The Red
Sidecar


CB900C

2006 KLR650

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #279 on: October 02, 2015, 04:03:11 PM »
I have a Honda ignition switch that came with this triple tree but it did not have a key with it.  I don't see any kind of number on the switch.  How does one find out where to get a key to replace the lost key? 

Is it as simple as taking the ignition switch to a Honda dealer and trying multiple keys?
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #280 on: October 02, 2015, 07:50:52 PM »
There should be a number on it, look underneath.
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #281 on: October 03, 2015, 10:39:59 AM »
There should be a number on it, look underneath.

I found a number stamped on the side of the metal part of the lock with a format of 3BJB26.  That's the only one I see on it. 
Can I give that number to a Honda dealer and get a key for it?
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #282 on: October 03, 2015, 11:07:36 AM »
That's not a key number.  Should be like T4635....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-nos-orig-ignition-key-CB750-CB550-CB450-CB350-CB-750K-550K-350F-1968-76-/301756283306?hash=item46421379aa&vxp=mtr


Do you have a seat lock for that bike? Some seat locks have the number on it.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 11:09:35 AM by Stev-o »
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #283 on: October 03, 2015, 12:27:46 PM »
That's not a key number.  Should be like T4635....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-nos-orig-ignition-key-CB750-CB550-CB450-CB350-CB-750K-550K-350F-1968-76-/301756283306?hash=item46421379aa&vxp=mtr


Do you have a seat lock for that bike? Some seat locks have the number on it.

It didn't have a seat lock on this frame, no.  However, the triple tree came in the boxes-o-parts that I purchased in Florida and there were 2 seat locks in those boxes as well.  But there's no guarantee that the seat locks came from the same bike as the ignition switch.  I just went back over the switch with an LED light and a magnifier and I can't find any other codes written on it.  I suppose it's entirely possible that this isn't an OEM switch but it's pretty heavy duty so it leads me to believe it is.

I think I'm going to contact a locksmith and see if he is able to make me a key to fit it if I drop it off with him.


Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #284 on: October 03, 2015, 01:16:32 PM »
I have an extra switch with key, however there is no plug on the end of the wires.  May not matter if you are doing a custom wiring job.  Let me know if you want pics or PM your address and I'll ship it on Monday. 
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #285 on: October 03, 2015, 05:17:45 PM »
Stev-o,
I may take you up on that but let me see if I can get one from a Honda dealer or from Bill Benton that fits this one first.  If I can't match this one up, I'll shoot you a PM.  I truly appreciate the offer though.  Very kind of you.

Ron
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

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Offline MickB

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #286 on: October 05, 2015, 01:00:23 AM »
Resto you and Logan will have a lot of time together over the next few months. Lots of cleaning and restoring.
I started with boxes of parts like you two. Logan will learn heaps starting with a complete build.
Look forward to following the build.

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #287 on: October 05, 2015, 06:39:38 PM »
Cal or other wiring experts,
Do you purchase your wire from McMaster-Carr as well?  If so, what size & how much do you recommend I purchase to be able to wire both bikes?

Looking at this old wiring harness, it appears there is some 12, some 14 and some 16 gauge wire in there.  Couldn't I just go ahead and purchase all 12 to save trouble?

Ron
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 07:06:43 PM by Restoration Fan »
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline calj737

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #288 on: October 05, 2015, 07:39:57 PM »
I use McMaster. If you are using the m-unit, you can use 22/24 for the switches, and 18/22 for power if your components are LED. 18 for non-LED and ignition runs.

If you're using stock components and the PDM, I'd stick with 18 everywhere. I buy 25' spools in stock Honda color schemes, except it's hard to find the striped wire at McMaster. You can substitute or disassemble a stock harness for Gr/Y and BLK/WHT.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #289 on: October 05, 2015, 07:57:44 PM »
Thanks, cal.  I just went in and placed my orders to get a couple of different types of kits from Vintage Connections, plus their crimping tool.  And now I have purchased 3 45 foot rolls of 18 (one in black, white and red).  I'll see if I can find some of the other colors and order those as well.

Now that I have the wheels back, I'm going to button those up once the new brake pads come in for the front & rear.  The PDM 60 is installed in the battery tray I purchased.  My buddy Mike has been making me a wiring diagram for the 500, using the circuit ideas I had for the PDM60.  He & I are supposed to go over that tomorrow at the office and make sure we have everything covered.  Once I have that, I'll post it out here for you guys to critique.

On a different note, I'm going over to Bill Benton's house on Saturday to watch as mark52 starts his beautifully restored 75 CB750K for the first time.  I had the pleasure of helping him with the engine rebuild and the wiring, as has Bill.  So it should be a fun time.  What would be REALLY nice would be if I had the 500 ready to start as well but I don't think it will be ready quite that quickly.   
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #290 on: October 07, 2015, 09:20:03 AM »
I ordered a set of left and right controls from eBay that I knew were going to be pretty cheap controls (I think I only paid about $15 for both controls shipped).  When I received them, I was surprised that they were a bit sturdier than I expected but on the down side, there was absolutely zero documentation with them. 

My buddy Mike and I went through the wiring diagram yesterday and I have to say that he has done a marvelous job with it.  To finish it up though, we needed to know the wires for these controls and which wires were for which control.  So I sat down last night with my multi-meter and sorted out which wires go where.  I have read a lot of threads with people questioning their wiring for the their controls and how to wire them up so I thought I'd post a quick update on how I figured out my wires for these controls, in the hopes that it might help someone else out at some point in the future.  One caveat is that I'm no wiring expert so please forgive my ignorance if I say something that sounds stupid.

First things first is that I want to check for continuity on the wires to determine which wires make a continuous connection whenever a certain button is pushed or is in a certain position.  To do this, your multimeter has a setting that will make an audible tone when you have continuity across 2 wires.  On mine, the symbol looks like a little speaker with waves coming out of it.  If you're not sure if you have yours on the correct setting, place it in the one you think is right and then touch the two probes together....you should hear an audible tone as long as they are touching and the tone should stop when the connection is broken.

Next, here are the controls I'm working with:

Ride Side Controls



Left Side Controls




So to begin, these controls are similar to the way that OEM Honda controls connect to the handlebars.  They have 2 pieces that separate to allow you to put it onto the handlebars and then they're connected via screws that go through one side into the other.  Well, we can use this to get a glimpse into the controls and see which wires go to which control switches.  I wasn't able to see all of the wires and I didn't want to take the switch apart (which would be the simplest way to determine the wiring, by the way).  But I didn't want to do that because these are cheap controls and I didn't want to do potential damage by taking them apart.  But I can look at those wires and that gives me a hint as to which wires I should test for the different control switches.

Anyway, to begin, take a piece of paper and use it to make notes of your findings.  Place the multimeter into the appropriate setting and begin by touching the black probe to one wire and then move it to touch each & every wire until you hear a tone or not.  Continue this until you've gone through all of the possible permutations.  Then, move the control switch you're testing to the next position and repeat these steps, writing down your findings each time.

Here's what I found regarding my controls:
Left Side Controls
Top Switch - (High & Low Beam Switch)
Low beam (bottom position) - Dark Blue/White & Dark Blue wires
High beam (top position) - Dark Blue/White and White wires

Middle Switch  (Turn Signals)
Left Turn - Orange & Gray wires
Right Turn - Gray and Light Blue wires
Middle Position - no continuity

Bottom Switch (Horn button)
Dark Green and Light Green wires

Right Side Controls
Top Switch (not sure what this is for; I'm assuming it is for turning on/off the headlight with a 3rd position for just having the running lights on when parked...I don't know what their real purpose is but this is how I'm going to use it)
Bottom position - Brown/White, Black and Brown wires (I'm going to use this for just the running lights being on...for use when parked on side of the road, etc)
Middle position - No continuity (I'm going to use this to enable turning the headlight and running lights off)
Top position - Blue/White, Black and Brown wires (I'll use this for headlight and running lights all on)

Middle Switch (Engine run (ie kill) switch)
Off position (left) - no continuity
On position (triangle on right) - Gray, Light Blue and Orange wires

Bottom Switch (Starter button)
Black and Yellow/Red wires

Anyway, I hope this simplistic explanation helps someone.  I just sent an email to Mike with the details and I'm hoping to post the wiring diagram either today or tomorrow.  I received notice from McMaster-Carr and Vintage Connections that my packages have shipped, so I should be putting this to use on the bike soon.







« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 09:21:59 AM by Restoration Fan »
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #291 on: October 07, 2015, 10:10:08 AM »
Thanks for documenting them. Care to share the seller's name on eBay and how they described them in the title?  A link to their current listing of what is for sale  will be good for longer than a link to another item like you purchased, fwiw. Thanks! David
p.s. interesting that they used the same wire colors in some cases.
David- back in the desert SW!

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #292 on: October 07, 2015, 11:23:31 AM »
Ron,

Thanks for sharing the knowledge. 

For the future, you may want to pay a little extra (next time) and try the K&S Technologies switches.  Great quality and good prices (from various ebay vendors).  Just select the model you like and then run a search in ebay for it. 

http://www.kandstech.com/index.php?page=switchescontrols

I use the Left-Side 12-0030 (it has a light OFF position and a high-beam flash) and the Right-Side 12-0030.  Zero issues.
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #293 on: October 07, 2015, 01:02:53 PM »
Thanks for documenting them. Care to share the seller's name on eBay and how they described them in the title?  A link to their current listing of what is for sale  will be good for longer than a link to another item like you purchased, fwiw. Thanks! David
p.s. interesting that they used the same wire colors in some cases.

OK, my bad.  I actually ordered them from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TX5SAU0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01

Don,
Thank you, I didn't know about those.  But for this flip, I'm actually fine with the quality of these.  They're a bit sturdier than I expected and the switches have a decent quality feel to them.  For $15.83 for the pair shipped, I'm fine with using these.  And in the comments, I had already read someone say that they come without wiring instructions.  But I reasoned that I could probably figure out which wires were involved for each switch and was fine with that.  Thanks again for the link though.  I'll definitely keep that one around.

Ron
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline GizmoDuck

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #294 on: October 07, 2015, 04:19:25 PM »
I ordered a set of left and right controls from eBay that I knew were going to be pretty cheap controls (I think I only paid about $15 for both controls shipped).  When I received them, I was surprised that they were a bit sturdier than I expected but on the down side, there was absolutely zero documentation with them.

Got those same controls too and they are fairly solid.  They had several buttons that were not needed for my bike so I combined all the switches except for kill and start on the left switch and am using the factory Honda switch on the right.

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #295 on: October 08, 2015, 04:03:48 PM »
We finally finished the wiring diagram for the 500.  I'm super pleased with the job that Mike did on it.


We spoke with the people from Rowe Electronics a couple of different times.  They're a small company and they actually welcome customer service calls....their people were incredibly friendly and helpful.  Our primary question was whether or not we needed to put an external fuse between the key switch and the trigger wire for the PDM60 because we didn't want to take a chance on blowing out the PDM60.  Their engineer called me back quickly and we spoke briefly and he told me that we didn't need to worry about because that incoming connection on the Trigger wire is already internally electronically fused.

I have a little work to do on the rear turn signals on Stella tomorrow now that I have most of the mounting hardware but I'm hoping to be able to start the wiring process this weekend.
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline calj737

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #296 on: October 08, 2015, 04:12:14 PM »
I'd offer a little input, Ron. The diagram looks great, but Mike has chosen to use some colors that are "non-standard" and similar side-to-side. For instance, Turn L and TURN R are the same color. Coming from the LH Switch he has Orange, but spliced it to BLUE? Stick with ORANGe front and rear for TURN L. It makes it MUCH easier to troubleshoot for any future owner. Same for GRAY coming from the KEY switch. Stick as closely as you can with stock Honda coloring.

His routing ans switching are spot on, but I'm being fastidious about color schemes. I just think someone later will appreciate it, and should you have any troubleshooting to do, it coincides directly with stock harness schemes.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #297 on: October 08, 2015, 05:10:53 PM »
Cal,
Thanks for the input.  Mike chose those colors because I asked him to use the actual colors that were coming out of the PDM60, since it has those colored wires coming from the unit itself.  Each wire is about 12 inches long and we decided to carry those colors forward throughout each circuit.  Also, the colors that are coming out of the switches are the actual colors in those cheap switches I purchased.

So, for instance, if I'm looking at a yellow wire, I will know that it is only going to the headlight, the switches for the headlights and the tach/speedo lights.  I agree it's going to make it a bit more difficult with the 2 wires to determine if one is coming from the left or the right but since there will only be those 2 or 3 yellow wires in there, it'll be fairly easy to trace one of them to determine which is left or right.

Since I'm not using the standard wiring harness but instead running the wires myself, we figured we'd put together this diagram and I'll provide it electronically, as well as a paper version to whomever ends up purchasing this bike.
Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline Restoration Fan

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #298 on: October 14, 2015, 12:54:05 PM »
I was looking at the regulator/rectifier that I already have and then I also pulled up the photos online of the combination regulators/rectifiers.  Here's my question:

The wiring connection coming from this 72 CB500 stator has a 9-prong male connector, in which are 6 wires.


The wires are the colors specified in the wiring diagram for the 500:


But the regulator I have (and the Ric's Regulator/Rectifiers all have male plugs as well. 


BUT I also notice that Ric doesn't make one for the 500, just for the 550.  At least on the www.motorcycle-superstore.com site, you can only select as early as a 74 and then only a 550 and not a 500. 
Is it normal for the 550 to have male plugs coming from the alternator?  And if so, does anyone make a regulator/rectifier combination to fit it?

Ron

Stella - Logan's Senior Project    78 750K http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141761.0

Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafes    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,147787.0.html

Offline calj737

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Re: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects
« Reply #299 on: October 14, 2015, 01:00:27 PM »
Ron - I typically cut the factory spades (male and female) off and crimp on new ones to fit the Ricks plug. This also allow me to split the NEU/OIL lines out of the plug and into smaller configurations. If this is for a "flip" bike, just use new crimps to mate to the Ricks and be done with it.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis