Topic: Logan's Reward - CB500 and CB550 Cafe Projects

[mashfu]

All those pages should make a little more sense after i get into the suspension, hopefully. Its looking more like differential geometry right about now!

[Zaipai]

Thanks for all the info on the PDM60 it was very detailed and I will look into that my fuse box is a real mess and this sounds like a great answer to it rather than trying to retro fit a newer blade style fuse box.

Loving your build so far. 

.: Scott :.

My pleasure.  If you do decide to go the PDM60 route, shoot me a PM and I'll gladly send you an electronic copy of the most recent wiring diagram we're using, as well as the individual layers.  It does make the wiring much simpler.

You should know however that the m-Unit is also favored by many here.  It does everything the PDM60 does and more.  For instance, you still need a winker/flasher diode with the PDM60 whereas that is built into the m-Unit.  The mUnit is a bit pricier but I do intend to buy one for the 550 build when it gets started.

Groovy I will look into it and if I go with the PDM60 I will PM you frankly money is of the essence so probably go the PFM60 route.

.: Scott :.

[sethmcalister]

I'd be interested in the wiring diagrams you have for the PDM60.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Restoration Fan]

cal or some other wiring expert:
I have 2 groups of wires coming from my combo regulator/rectifier that came in my buckets-o-parts and I'm hoping to use on the 500.  I'm changing them over from the dirty, broken connectors they have now and putting new ones on but I need to match them up to the wires coming from my stator.  But I'm not for sure how they match up.  Any ideas?

From the stator: 
3 yellows
1 white
1 green
1 green/red
1 blue/red

From the regulator/rectifier:
1 set has
3 yellows (pretty sure I can match those up  )
1 white
1 black

the other grouping has
1 black
1 red*
1 green*

*The red & green wires are a heavier gauge than the other wires.

Any idea how I should match these wires up?

From stator:


From reg/rect:


Edited:
I Googled the model of the regulator/rectifier (shindengen sh236a-12 diagram) and found out it is from a DOHC CB750.  According to a post on another forum:

On the 3 wire plug Green goes to ground, Red/white to positive, and Black to switched positive.
On the 5 wire plug. The 3 yellow wires go to the 3 yellow wires from the Alt. The white wire goes to the green wire from the alt, and the black wire goes to the white wire from the alt.

Now my conondrum is that I have the 8 wires from reg/rect and the 7 from stator. 

[Restoration Fan]

The BL/RED is your OIL Pressure signal and the GR/RED is the Neutral. Your DOHC Reg/Rec makes no provisions for those, and frankly I peel them out of the charging bundle anyway and run them to the instrument lights. Simplifies the stator plug an orients them into their own 2-wire harness going forward.

Thanks, cal.  That's exactly the info I was looking for. 
I was afraid of abandoning those 2 wires because I didn't know what they were used for.  I'm not running oil pressure or neutral lights on this build, so I'm going to just put them into the harness and not connect anything to them.  Thanks again.

[Restoration Fan]

I'm not running oil pressure or neutral lights on this build, so I'm going to just put them into the harness and not connect anything to them.

This is a bad idea, Ron. If this bike is a "flip", you definitely want those lights working. Connecting them to a gauge or dash light cluster is nearly required for safety. I think its a very bad idea to run without a NEUTRAL light for safety reasons, and an OIL light is a motor reliability issue.

You make a very good point.  I definitely don't want the stock light controls there but I think I'll fab up a thin light bar out of sheet metal that I can weld between the tach and speedo and run those two lights up there.

[Restoration Fan]

I cut down the standard mounting bracket and I'm using the stock gauges.  I have to fix the face on the tach still before mounting it. 

[RAFster122s]

If your gauge bracket is only mounted with one bolt it will probably have more vibration than stock...The sheet being linked together and at two spots provides a good deal of vibration dampening of the metal, getting away with lighter gauge metal.  The instruments are loading the entire plate which if the motor has a vibration at rev will get transmitted to the frame and gauges and the road vibrations if any ( ) would be also added to it...

You might need to have a thicker piece of steel or aluminum T6061 to support a single gauge with a single bolt and remain rigid and not be a blurry mess at speed or idle...even with the stock rubber isolation mounting they use.

[Restoration Fan]

David,
Thank you, that's good advice.  I think that the speedo at least would probably be all right because it tightened down pretty snugly.  I had just cut down the stock  mounts and used a lock washer and lock nut on the bottom. 

But cal convinced me that I really should probably include a neutral and oil pressure gauge for whomever buys the bike so I'm going to weld a narrow cross piece between the tach and speedo and fab up a couple of lights to go in that cross piece.  So it won't really matter anyway because both the tach and speedo will now be connected by that cross-bracing.

Ron

[Restoration Fan]

I'd be interested in the wiring diagrams you have for the PDM60.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Seth,
I'll post the complete set of drawings in this thread when I'm completely finished with the wiring.  We have to go back and edit them to add the neutral and oil pressure lights now.  Hopefully, those will be the last changes to the drawings and then I'll put them up here.

Ron

[Restoration Fan]

And is there a particular reason you don't want to use the bar clamp cluster, Ron? Kills two birds with one wrench...

Just aesthetics.  I don't particularly like the look of them and besides, I'm having fun playing with metal and I have to have some reason to justify my welder purchase, you know?   

No, being serious, I have seen a few bikes on Racer TV that had what I was looking to do.  And I just want to be able to add to the skill set a bit by testing out whether I can do it or not. Worst case, I can always get another stock setup and go back to the stock bar clamp and wire that up.  But I've already decided not to try & sell this bike until early spring when it warms up and more people are looking to buy.  So I have all winter to tinker with this one and the 550.

With the new year, Kelli begins a pretty hectic string of hotel openings around the world and with both boys at college, I'll have quite a bit of time every night after work.  And unlike with Stella, where there was a deadline, I'm enjoying the ability with these bikes to take my time and try different things to get them just like I want them to look or function.

[RAFster122s]

Forget the thread where a fellow cut the face of a tach and installed a wired Sigma bicycle computer in the face and re-covered the face to freshen the color and the red-line area. I have seen stock gauges where the row of warning lamps were replaced with high brightness leds with a toggle or pushbutton to have a dimmer setting at night ( resistor to cut the current & voltage value to lower the led's brightness, off full brightness for daytime and on to make it tolerable at night so it isn't too bright.)
!playing with a used tach to fit the mods is appropriate practice. The bike computer provides a LCD screen so you have to have the backlight lit or, fit a led to light the face so you can see it at night. Backlight would probably burn out so, a shielded illumination source might be needed. Shkelded so it does not have a bright lamp that blinds you at night. A LED with black paint on part could shield it, or you use a std white LED pointed at the computer face. LEDs are very directional in std config so, they (the light) are all but invisible when viewed from the side. Surface mount leds are different animal...
surface mount LED halos are often used or surface mounted design on flexible circuit mylar are used to change illumination. It is easy to overdo it with these as they are blindingly bright, so testing and modifying the location of the light or the reflective painted ring is needed. Need to see when on dark streets but not too bright when on very dark roads and areas. They can be irritating if that kind of thing affects you. - David

[Restoration Fan]

Can anyone explain to me how the clutch is supposed to work on this CB500? I purchased a brand new clutch cable and installed it on this bike.  I now have it adjusted about as far out as I can figure out for it to go but it still needs to either be shortened or some further adjustments done to it.  But the issue I'm having is that I don't really understand how this thing works.

Pulling the clutch lever lifts up the lever in the first photo.


The shaft shown in this 2nd photo goes into the hole in the first one.  That shaft is 65.5mm long and the clutch pack is over on the other side of the bike.  How exactly does pulling that clutch lever have any significant effect on that shaft which would result in the clutch plates being engaged or disengaged?

[Stev-o]

Well then, don't forget the HI and TURN lights.

Although I agree the neutraL and oil lights are a good idea, these are not necessary.
Turn lights on a cafe racer? I think not...

[Restoration Fan]

I have an option that I'm interested in investigating for an alternative mechanical speedo for this bike from the large, bulky stock one.  Does anyone know if the ratio used for speedometers for these bikes is 1:1 or 2:1 (or something else entirely) for these bikes?

[bwaller]

500/550 tachs are 20:3.

All SOHC4 speedo's are 2240:60

[FunJimmy]

For those who are interested, I purchased an eBook that is pretty fantastic.  I'm not allowed to include the whole thing (and honestly, I'd have to make a screenshot of every page to do so) but here are the pages from the chapter on how rake/trail, etc effect steering geometry.

This is the book.  I happen to think it's worth every penny of the $13 or so that I paid for it:

Thanks for the read up Ron.
Gonna have to add that book to my library.

[Restoration Fan]

Thanks, Brent.

Any time, Jimmy.  The way the eBook is done, I can share it but only between my own personal devices that are on my account.  It's definitely worth the money for the book though, IMO.  I've enjoyed the chapters I've read quite a bit. 

[RAFster122s]

I believe there are several options from some of the suppliers for the CB bikes but,, a smaller unit is harder to read. There is one tach speedo that are available from several suppliers. I think that is why several modern bikes went to digital readout for speed is quicker to read with less space required while we process the tach as a sweeping needle or digital sweeping curved bar...
Ottete (I am butchering the name I bet...) a Dutch SOHC/4 member did a build and integrated a Sigma wired bicycle computer into the tach housing. This gave him the speedo and mileage function as well as some of a bicycle computer's functions. There is room at the bottom of the tach for a display embedded in a cutout of the tach face. His looked very professional when finished. The Sigma wired or wireless units use magnetic pickups and are adjustable. This is often the method aftermarket electronic speedos use. Older high-end versions can be picked up used by cyclist upgrading their computers, a good way to save money. He relocated the buttons and inserted a led to illuminate the LCD at night; backlights would probably fail as they aren't designed to be always on.
I think it was Brent or was it another member,  whose name is escaping me, who suggested a pickup point at the front sprocket rather than the front wheel. So, calibrate it to the whereever it is placed iand fine tune with an accurate GPS. Other modern aftermarket units rely on GPS but they are $$.
I have a TomTom Via 1505LM car GPS and a motorcycle GPS, Garmin Zumo 220   (older model), neither agree on the speed. I just discovered from both my speedometer is accurate until I go past 60 mph.

[RAFster122s]

Sorry for lengthy reply, reached limit of tablet's ability to edit a long reply. That's on my car,haven't tested the sohc4 speedo....
Reports from many indicate they aren't accurate even when new, but that is upper range of limit which is typical of most gauges are designed to be most accurate at middle of range.

So, while it may be cooler or less obstructive to go smaller realize it will take longer to read. Sometime it is OK, but, it willtake a while to memorize the relative positions.
 I hope you have good luck in your selection and get what you want.
I am not against the smaller gauges, I just wanted to throw out an option or two...
Now we are having a taste of winter here the bikes I've been seeing certainly won't be ridden today with temps in the low to mid 30s during day and we will see temps around 20 tonight and 13F tomorrow night. We had snow flurries today.

Good luck on the build, I have enjoyed following your progress.

David

[Restoration Fan]

Great response, David.  Thank you.
Here in Atlanta, it was down into the 20's early this morning so much too cold for me to consider riding.
 
I'm getting ready to winterize Stella this weekend and change out her stator and change the oil/oil filter.
She'll probably go down into the basement with the 500. 

Especially since the wife now knows about the bikes.  She walked down into the basement for the first time yesterday and sent me a text message complaining about how disorganized the tool room is...then followed that up with a text saying "Nice motorcycle down there, by the way".  I told her she wasn't supposed to have seen that yet because I had wanted the first time she knew about it to be when I put the bike in the garage beside Stella.  That way, when she said, "Oh...so now we have TWO motorcycles?", I could have answered with, "Nope...three...there's another in the basement."

She just laughed when I told her that and said, "yeah...you WOULD find that funny, wouldn't you?"

[Stev-o]

Hey Ron...your wife sounds like a better sport than mine. My wife would flip if she saw one in the house (not many basements here).  Every once in a while she'll count the number of bikes in the garage... "Six motorcycles, really?! You need to sell two!" I just laugh....

[RAFster122s]

Steve, she doesn't know about the ones in storage hidden away?

I forgot to mention bike computers might not be able to cope with very small diameter of sprocket. It was calj---- I forget the numbers in his ID.

David

[Restoration Fan]

Hey Ron...your wife sounds like a better sport than mine. My wife would flip if she saw one in the house (not many basements here).  Every once in a while she'll count the number of bikes in the garage... "Six motorcycles, really?! You need to sell two!" I just laugh....

She is a pretty good sport most of the time.  She did get kind of irked at me this weekend when I answered a question though.  One of her cousins was at our house and asked how long we had been married.  I told her "It will be 25 years in August...and I just about have her trained.  She's even house broken now."

Don't know why she didn't take that as the compliment it was intended to be.

[Restoration Fan]

So I finally got in touch with the people from All Balls today.  As the young man and I were talking, I went back to the beginning of the thread and discovered @ least part of the problem.....the front end I purchased from Bill Benton is a 2008 CBR1000RR front end.  When you go to purchase the conversion bearings from All Balls, their conversion kits go up through the 2007 year.  I assume that means that the steering stem thickness changed from 2007 to 2008...as the one I have is literally 5 mm thicker than the interior diameters of these kits.

I also put the front end into the fork and put the aluminum triple tree top onto it just to see how the measurement fits and it appears the stem is a few mm too long (approximately about 10mm).  I don't know how much of that will be taken up via the steering stem bearing kit but it should help some...as the bottom is now able to go farther up into the neck than it will be with a few mm of bearings as well as the upper & lower races. 

The young man is going to take the photos over to their guys in fabrication and see what they can come up with.  Worst case, I will have to replace the CBR steering stem with one from the 550.  But i really like the aluminum triple tree top and would prefer to use it if I can.  Again, worst case I could have a spacer turned that will take up the difference in the stem neck thickness and the hole in the aluminum triple tree.

All in all though...very good customer service and you have to love it when a company tries to work WITH you to come up with a solution that makes you happy.  I'll keep you updated when I hear back from them with my options.